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So grace is dependent on how 'open' we are to trust?
Foreknowledge on person's heart?...The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? (Jer 17:9)
Not a respecter of persons?...I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. (Joh 17:9)
or as another example...
For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth. (Deu 7:6)
L
lesjude
Guest
Reasoning with people while presenting them with a bloodless and powerless gospel is a major reason for Luke 8:11-14.God does NOT love sinners in the sense that there is ANYTHING in or about them that is good or of value to Him. He loved sinners so much that He drowned all of them. However God gave them a chance to build an ark and sent Noah to tell them why and how. The Gospel is not that God is a loving God but is that He gives sinners an opportunity to be made righteous without sin imputed to them because the horrible death of His son paid the penalty they can NEVER escape without receiving His free gift. It should be pointed out that God put His own son to death because He is righteous, good, and cannot forgive anyone's sin any other way.
If they are sure they still want a Righteous God like that who can never do wrong or lie they should carefully consider giving Him full control of their lives. If not then they are NOT ready. The Holy Spirit will do His work in their hearts and disciples will take the first step in a walk of salvation instead of converts/church members.
It very easy to quote scripture and apply ones own interpretation of it. We are all guilty of it. Jesus is praying for the reservation of the saints. You do the same thing I hope...I need this prayer....I don't believe this has anything to do with how one becomes of the elect. There has always been 2 groups, God's people and the world's people, under Satan (however you want to put it). Thus we don't pray for those in whom God knows who will never choose Him (those of the world, the institution of Satan, the evil corporate body). But yet we do pray for those in the world, in that evil institution, whom will have a conversion.
Paul wishes himself he could be curse for the very people (unbelievers) you say God never intended to received the election, and Jesus laments over them...Christ wanted them to gathered under His wings, they it was they that was unwilling, not that it was Christ wasn't willing to open their eyes. How does John 17:9 line up with John 3:16-18 and Hebrews 2:9;
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.
This is ever ending circle, no verse can be interpreted by itself but the rest of the 65 books. So you have your verses and I have mine. I have come to the conclusion that this is a mystery of God. I believe the Elect is the Church, the corporate body of Christ, God's remnant through out time, who hold fast to His Word. These are the ones who enter into Christ who was the only elect of God to live a perfect and sinless life, by their faith and belief of the finishing work of Christ alone. Read through the 4 Gospels again, and you'll see Christ saying you must believe and your Faith has...(placing the emphesis on our reaction to what He has done or will do).
At this point I care just to agree to disagree and drop this whole debate, because it goes no where. You may have the last word and may God's peace be with you.
Love you in Christ,
James
A
Ariel82
Guest
mmmm
God draws and leads people and He sometimes does it by having one of His children care enough to reason with them and discuss scriptures with them.
Wisdom should not be scorned or sound reasoning dismissed.
you may not be "reasoned into faith" but you use reason to grow in maturity of your faith.
you use reason to teach self control. you add to the faith given to you by God.
2 peter 1
5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.
God draws and leads people and He sometimes does it by having one of His children care enough to reason with them and discuss scriptures with them.
Wisdom should not be scorned or sound reasoning dismissed.
you may not be "reasoned into faith" but you use reason to grow in maturity of your faith.
you use reason to teach self control. you add to the faith given to you by God.
2 peter 1
5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.
L
lesjude
Guest
These things can be done by yielding to the Holy Spirit, allowing Him to put to death the self life, and bring forth the fruits of the Spirit through us. This is one of the purposes of receiving the Acts 2:4 experience and why Jesus COMMANDED it for all His disciples.
hey interesting! ty!
i'll have to remember that.
i'm stunned at the moment - tired....., does it change the overall meaning of the passage
and so then does it change anything about our Q&A?
z
Heeh Heeh, I don't think so, sorry for bring it up. But I'm inquiring of the Lord whether or not that add-on is significant to the meaning of the passage. I think that perhaps it could.
P
Powemm
Guest
God <---- is the builder of my faith......
my confidence is in what He can do over what any man can do
it is "who" we place our confidence in...
There is no reasoning it... We are either hot or cold .. We can not serve both
god and man ..
my confidence is in what He can do over what any man can do
it is "who" we place our confidence in...
There is no reasoning it... We are either hot or cold .. We can not serve both
god and man ..
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interesting BE
when He reveals it to you, will you share?
i like it when someone points out new things (new to me anyways)
luv
z
i inquired of you elsewhere and don't know if you replied.
what was the purpose of speaking with other tongues in Acts 2?
and what on earth are you talking about it today for?
Well I don't believe He chose us because we first chose Him,has a funny rub to it besides not found in Scripture but it seems the prevalent view amongst Arminians. I believe that our election is in Christ and I also believe we don't fully understand Ephesians when it speaks of election and predestination 'in Christ'. But this I do believe, our election in Christ is totally dependent on Him and not anything in or of us.