Reconciled to God while enemies !

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brightfame52 said:
The word reconciled katallassō in Rom 5 10 is aorist indicative meaning a statement of fact ad aorist highlights it a completed
act
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Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled [Greek = katallassō] to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled [Greek = katallassō], we shall be saved by his life.

The word "reconciled" in Rom 5:10 is translated from the Greek word katallássō which means decisively change, as when two parties reconcile when coming ("changing") to the same position.

God (the Party of the first part) established His eternal purpose in eternity past ... and He reconciled Himself to mankind through the death of His Son. God does not change.

The believer (the party of the second part) is reconciled at the time he/she believes (therefore being justified by faith – Rom 5:1 ... justified by His blood – Rom 5:9). At that point, the person "changed" his or her position and is reconciled to God ... both parties (God and the believer) came to the same position (both God and the person are reconciled ... i.e. Greek katallássō).

Those who reject God even as He reaches out to them are not reconciled to God ... not because God has not provided all that is necessary for them to be reconciled, but because they reject that which God has provided for them to be reconciled to God.

The Lord Jesus Christ is the reconciliation ... there is no other way.

Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ is reconciliation to God.

If a person rejects the Lord Jesus Christ ... who is the Way, the Truth, the Life ... there is no reconciliation with God because the party of the second part is not in agreement with God (the Party of the first part).

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Roger316 said:
That can't be true because hundreds of elect weren't yet born.
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Their sins were paid for by Christs Death b4 they were born. What you think, that when God laid the sins of the elect on Christ to die for as Pet Isa 53:6

All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

You think their sins weren't laid on Him until after they were born, Or did God already know about all their sins b4 they were born as to lay them on Christ ? Stop and think
 
reneweddaybyday said:
The word "reconciled" in Rom 5:10 is translated from the Greek word katallássō which means decisively change, as when two parties reconcile when coming ("changing") to the same position.
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I know what it means, Im doing a thread on it you posting in
reneweddaybyday said:
Those who reject God even as He reaches out to them are not reconciled to God .
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False, that's why they are reconciled to God while being enemies. They literally hate God as an enemy. Look up the word enemy in Rom 5 10 and get back with me.
 
brightfame52 said:
You and I speak of different Jesus.. The Jesus I believe in died for my sins centuries ago b4 I was born
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I'm not questioning your salvation or loyalty to Christ.

What does the Bible teach? Were our sins forgiven or paid for?
 
Roger316 said:
“I do believe what Scripture teaches. If something I said sounded different to you, I’m glad to clarify—but let’s talk about the interpretation, not my sincerity.”
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Lets talk about what I stated in post 194

B

Post in thread 'Reconciled to God while enemies !'

Preaching Reconciliation ! cont

Something to know about legal and objective reconciliation of the Elect, and that is this, that all the Elect while being enemies to Christ and God, are nevertheless legally still reconciled, received into God's Favor up until they are born again by the Spirit, or saved by Christ's Life Rom 5:10b. This means, but I do not teach it from scripture, but it does mean if an elect person were to die before new birth, that they would still be saved from the penalty of their sins, by the blood of Christ, that they would die objectively and legally reconciled...
 
brightfame52 said:
Lets talk about what I stated in post 194

B

Post in thread 'Reconciled to God while enemies !'

Preaching Reconciliation ! cont

Something to know about legal and objective reconciliation of the Elect, and that is this, that all the Elect while being enemies to Christ and God, are nevertheless legally still reconciled, received into God's Favor up until they are born again by the Spirit, or saved by Christ's Life Rom 5:10b. This means, but I do not teach it from scripture, but it does mean if an elect person were to die before new birth, that they would still be saved from the penalty of their sins, by the blood of Christ, that they would die objectively and legally reconciled...
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Does Christ forgive your sins or did he pay for them? It can't be both.
 
The whole world of 1 Jn 2:2 that Christ is the propitiation in behalf of ,is a Justified World, because God has been propitiated for it, in the same manner that God had been propitiated towards the Publican in the story of Christ Lk 18:13-14

13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

That word merciful is the greek word hilaskomai and means:


to render one's self, to appease, conciliate to one's self

a) to become propitious, be placated or appeased

b) to be propitious, be gracious, be merciful

2) to expiate, make propitiation for

The noun form of the same word is found in 1 Jn 2:2

hilasmos:

an appeasing, propitiating

2) the means of appeasing, a propitiation

Now Jesus enlightens here, that a sinner for whom God is propitiated for is a Justified person before God:

"I tell you, this man went down to his house justified "

The word Justified is the greek word: dikaioō:


to render righteous or such he ought to be

2) to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered

3) to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

So those who appeal ignorantly to 1 Jn 2:2 to prove that Christ died for the Whole World without exception, you are teaching falsely universalism, and that the whole World without exception has been declared Righteous before God !
 
brightfame52 said:
What you not believing is Gospel Truth and it is on you
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What I believe and apparently you disbelieve is this creed:

The normative way of stating the kerygma/GRFS in the NT is “Accept Christ Jesus as Lord” (as in Acts 16:31, 2Cor. 4:5 & Col. 2:6) or “Love Jesus as Messiah and Lord” (John 8:42). The main points of Christian orthodoxy implicit in these statements can be explained or elaborated as follows:

1. There is a/one all-loving and just Lord or God (Deut. 6:4, John 3:16, 2Thes. 1:6), who is both able (2Tim. 1:12) and willing (1Tim. 2:3-4, Ezek. 33:11) to provide all morally accountable human beings salvation or heaven—a wonderful life full of love, joy and peace forever.
2. Human beings are selfish or sinful (Rom. 3:23, 2Tim. 3:2-4, Col. 3:5), miserable (Gal. 5:19-21), and hopeless (Eph. 2:12) or hell-bound at the judgment (Matt. 23:33 & 25:46) when they reject God’s salvation (John 3:18, Rom. 2:5-11).
3. Jesus is God’s Messiah/Christ and incarnate Son, the way that God has chosen (John 3:16, Acts 16:30-31, Phil. 2:9-11) of providing salvation by means of his atoning death on the cross for the payment of the penalty for the sins of humanity (Rom. 3:22-25 & 5:9-11), followed by his resurrection to reign in heaven (1Cor. 15:14-28).
4. Thus, every person who hears the NT Gospel needs to repent and accept God’s justification in Jesus as Christ/Messiah the Lord or Supreme Commander (Luke 2:11, John 14:6, Acts 16:31), which means trying to obey (Phil. 3:12, 1John 1:8) His commandment to love one another (Matt. 22:37-40, John 13:35, Rom. 13:9)—forever (Matt. 10:22, Psa. 113:2).
5. Then God’s Holy Spirit will establish a saving relationship with those who freely accept Him (Rev. 3:20) that will eventually achieve heaven when by means of persevering in learning Truth/God’s Word/sanctification everyone cooperates fully with His will (John 14:6, 17&26, Rom. 8:6-17, Gal. 6:7-9, Eph. 1:13-14, Heb. 10:36, 12:1, Jam. 1:2-4).
 
brightfame52 said:
if an elect person were to die before new birth, that they would still be saved from the penalty of their sins, by the blood of Christ, that they would die objectively and legally reconciled
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not true, brightfame52 ... in the above scenario, only half of the reconciliation process occurred at the death of the person before he or she is born again ... the half that occurred is God having reconciled Himself to mankind through the death of His Son … the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

katallássō means decisively change, as when two parties reconcile when coming ("changing") to the same position.

If a person rejects the truth of God's Word the whole of his or her life, he or she is not reconciled to God.

If a person does not reject the truth of God's Word, he or she is reconciled to God because he or she has changed his or her position to align with the truth of God. It is the Word of God (which is quick (life-giving) and powerful–Heb 4:12) that brings about the promise of God in those who do not reject.

And it would do you well to remember that a person is not "elect" until he or she is in "the Elect". The Lord Jesus Christ is "the Elect" and if a person rejects the Lord Jesus Christ the whole of his or her life, he or she is not in the Lord Jesus Christ.


Romans 1:16-19

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

vs 16 – the gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation to those who believe (those who do not suppress the truth in unrighteousness–vs 18).

vs 18 – the words "who hold" are translated from the Greek word katechō which means suppress, restrain. Those who suppress/restrain the truth in unrighteousness are those who reject the truth.

The gospel of Christ is not changed from being the power of God if/when someone rejects. Those who reject are not reconciled to God because they have not changed their position to align with God's position.

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reneweddaybyday said:
not true, brightfame52 ..
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Yes it is. They die in the Favor of God. The word reconciled in Rom 5 10 is a aorist passive indicative and it means:

  1. return to favour with, be reconciled to one
  2. to receive one into favour

God doesnt impute them[the reconciled] with no sin or trespasses 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
 
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