Reconciled to God while enemies !

[brightfame52]

When Paul says that God ‘made Christ to be sin for us,’ he isn’t describing some literal transformation in Christ’s nature on the cross.

I know that, never said otherwise. Christ was made a sin offering, the sins of the elect sheep were charged to Him

Yes, that’s exactly what I was getting at earlier. Christ died *for* sins, but His death wasn’t merited,

Right the sinners He died in the stead and place of merited it

“Christ died for the whole world

Only of the elect world, whose sins arent charged to them. he didnt die for the final unbelieving world who shall die in their own sins Jn 8:24

24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Its not possible for anyone Christ died for to die in their sins a unbeliever

 

[brightfame52]

I understand what you’re saying, but I think we’re using the word *repentance* differently. In Scripture, repentance isn’t something automatically produced by regeneration

Yes it is. It accompanies the New Life from being born again by the resurrection of Christ from the dead 1 Pet 1:3 I just explained that

 

[Cameron143]

No, it tells us the cross wasn't about forgiveness of sins. They were already forgiven before the cross.

Again, the facts bear out what I am saying. God doesn't need a reason or a cause to forgive sins. Mercy trumps judgment.

You should read Colossians 2:13-14.

 

[Roger316]

Nevertheless, Jesus gives repentance Acts 5:31 thats how it is He was exalted to do that as Prince and Saviour, i cant help what that person or yourself cant believe or receive, and I dont play bible hopscotch

When Acts says that God ‘gave repentance to Israel,’ it doesn’t mean God repented on Israel’s behalf or irresistibly caused repentance inside them. It means God *granted* Israel the opportunity, summons, and pathway to return to Him. Through Jesus’ resurrection and exaltation, God publicly opened the door for Israel to turn back. In biblical language, God ‘gives’ what He authorizes, enables, and makes possible. Repentance is still a human act, but it is only possible because God has taken the initiative to make reconciliation available. The cross is God’s side of reconciliation; repentance is Israel’s side.”

 

[Roger316]

God doesnt impute their sins to them, which equates to forgiveness as well Rom 4:4-6

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

And Imagine, God forgave David before the Cross.

 

[brightfame52]

it’s the human side of reconciliation. God certainly initiates, but reconciliation always involves **two parties**, not one.

Christ is the author of reconciliation for both parties

 

[Roger316]

Have you read Romans 3? Read verses 10-18 and tell me how someone in that estate repents. Is repentance something that is done by someone without understanding? By someone not seeking after God? By someone who is not good? By someone whose throat is an open sepulchre?

Read Ephesians 2:1-3. Are these dead, dominated, and doomed people able to help themselves? No. Thankfully, verse 4...but God...

Repentance itself is a gift of God...2 Corinthians 7:10...a godly sorrow which works repentance.

Salvation is of God. God saves. Man responds to the activity of God.

Is this an answer to my objection? I don't think you get it yet. What God does for us internally must manifest externally. God doesn't repent for us. We do the repenting.

 

[Cameron143]

Is this an answer to my objection? I don't think you get it yet. What God does for us internally must manifest externally. God doesn't repent for us. We do the repenting.

I never said we didn't. But it is the activity of God that saves us. We simply respond with behavior commensurate to one who has been saved.

 

[brightfame52]

No, it tells us the cross wasn't about forgiveness of sins.

False as can be Col 2:14

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Isa 43 25
I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.

 

[Roger316]

Have you read Romans 3? Read verses 10-18 and tell me how someone in that estate repents. Is repentance something that is done by someone without understanding? By someone not seeking after God? By someone who is not good? By someone whose throat is an open sepulchre?

Read Ephesians 2:1-3. Are these dead, dominated, and doomed people able to help themselves? No. Thankfully, verse 4...but God...

Repentance itself is a gift of God...2 Corinthians 7:10...a godly sorrow which works repentance.

Salvation is of God. God saves. Man responds to the activity of God.

I agree that repentance is a work of the Holy Spirit, but Scripture never treats it as something dropped into a person mechanically or irresistibly. God’s transformative work opens the eyes, softens the heart, and awakens the conscience — but repentance itself is the human response to that awakening. In biblical terms, God grants the *conditions* for repentance: illumination, conviction, and a heart made tender to the truth. We repent because God has acted first, yet the act of turning is still ours. The Spirit enables; we respond.

 

[brightfame52]

When Acts says that God ‘gave repentance to Israel,’ it doesn’t mean God repented on Israel’s behalf or irresistibly caused repentance inside them

No He didnt repent on their behalf, He gave them repentance through the New Birth which caused it. I just explained that to you. Repentance is Spiritual Salvation, Christ gives it to the elect, not the earthly national israel, but Israel elect, the Church, the body of Christ.

 

[John146]

No He didnt repent on their behalf, He gave them repentance through the New Birth which caused it. I just explained that to you. Repentance is Spiritual Salvation, Christ gives it to the elect, not the earthly national israel, but Israel elect, the Church, the body of Christ.

Replacement theology is bad theology.

 

[brightfame52]

And Imagine, God forgave David before the Cross

Yes, but is was still premised on the Cross David knew of Christs forgiveness long b4 the cross Ps 103:12

12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

 

[brightfame52]

I agree that repentance is a work of the Holy Spirit, but Scripture never treats it as something dropped into a person mechanically or irresistibly.

As with Faith it comes with New Spiritual life, the New Birth

 

[Roger316]

I know that, never said otherwise. Christ was made a sin offering, the sins of the elect sheep were charged to Him

Again, That is NOT what Paul said. Our sins were NOT charged to Jesus. Our sins were forgiven. Don't you understand the difference?

Only of the elect world, whose sins arent charged to them. he didnt die for the final unbelieving world who shall die in their own sins Jn 8:24

24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Its not possible for anyone Christ died for to die in their sins a unbeliever

This is where your view of Limited Atonement breaks down. The Cross was NOT intended for the expiation of sins. As Paul said in Romans 3, the sins were previously passed over. The cross was for a public demonstration of God's righteousness.

When Paul says the cross was a public demonstration of God’s righteousness, he means that God put His justice on display for the world to see. Jesus makes the same point when He compares His crucifixion to Moses lifting up the bronze serpent in the wilderness. In Numbers 21, the serpent was lifted up so that anyone who looked at it could live — the cure was made visible, accessible, and unmistakable. In the same way, Jesus is lifted up on the cross so that the world can see God’s judgment on sin and His mercy toward sinners. Both passages emphasize that the cross is something shown, not hidden; a revelation meant to open eyes and call forth a response.”

This is the biblical logic:
- Moses lifted up the serpent → Israel sees, understands, and responds.
- Jesus is lifted up → the world sees God’s righteousness revealed and is summoned to respond.

 

[brightfame52]

Replacement theology is bad theology.

Thats being discussed here:

Thread 'More about Israel.'

Jul 7, 2025

Some subscribe to what is known as replacement theology. They reject the idea that God has any purpose for the modern nation of Israel. I find this patently absurd, for reasons I've already stated.

This morning I was listening to the late Derek Prince, who was literally there at the rebirth of the nation of Israel. He knows the scriptures as well as anyone, and better than most. He quoted one that I've overlooked to date and that answers a claim made by superessionists.

In the book of Revelation, John was receiving a vision of the last days. Most scholars believe this was written about...

• Gideon300
• Replies: 1,742
• Forum: Bible Discussion Forum

• 

 

[Roger316]

Yes, but is was still premised on the Cross David knew of Christs forgiveness long b4 the cross Ps 103:12

12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

You have no evidence that David knew of Christ's forgiveness. In fact, David tells us why God forgave him. It was due to his humble and contrite heart.

 

[brightfame52]

Again, That is NOT what Paul said. Our sins were NOT charged to Jesus. Our sins were forgiven. Don't you understand the difference?

Sure he did, he used the ot scriptures to preach. Thats Isaiah the scripture

 

[brightfame52]

This is where your view of Limited Atonement breaks down. The Cross was NOT intended for the expiation of sins. As Paul said in Romans 3, the sins were previously passed over. The cross was for a public demonstration of God's righteousness.

How so. Nobody in the world of 2 Cor 5:19 can die in their sins. Paul called them earlier the called/chosen 1 Cor 1:24-27

24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

 

[brightfame52]

Again, That is NOT what Paul said. Our sins were NOT charged to Jesus. Our sins were forgiven. Don't you understand the difference?

This is where your view of Limited Atonement breaks down. The Cross was NOT intended for the expiation of sins. As Paul said in Romans 3, the sins were previously passed over. The cross was for a public demonstration of God's righteousness.

When Paul says the cross was a public demonstration of God’s righteousness, he means that God put His justice on display for the world to see. Jesus makes the same point when He compares His crucifixion to Moses lifting up the bronze serpent in the wilderness. In Numbers 21, the serpent was lifted up so that anyone who looked at it could live — the cure was made visible, accessible, and unmistakable. In the same way, Jesus is lifted up on the cross so that the world can see God’s judgment on sin and His mercy toward sinners. Both passages emphasize that the cross is something shown, not hidden; a revelation meant to open eyes and call forth a response.”

This is the biblical logic:
- Moses lifted up the serpent → Israel sees, understands, and responds.
- Jesus is lifted up → the world sees God’s righteousness revealed and is summoned to respond.

Lol You just talking to be talking