I’m not trying to be difficult. I honestly just want to understand your point. If you believe my comments are contradictory, I’m asking you to show where the contradiction is so we can look at it together. I’m willing to listen — I just need something specific to respond to. Thanks for your patience.
I appreciate you bringing 2 Corinthians 5:19 into the discussion. I’m simply trying to stay close to Paul’s categories. If reconciliation were fully accomplished for a specific group by the death of Christ alone, then Paul’s “ministry of reconciliation” wouldn’t make much sense — there would be nothing left to announce or appeal for. But Paul clearly sees reconciliation as something God has accomplished on His side, and something humans must still respond to. That’s why he pleads, “Be reconciled to God.”
Its my point though, saved there is subjective reconciliation among other things. Christ by His death and intercession after death saves them He died for to the uttermost, and they come unto God by Him Heb 7"25
In the text he is writing believers, but he informs them what happened while they were enemies/unbelievers, by Christs death
Paul sees them as distinct categories, which is why his comparison is between Christ's death on the cross and his life.
Sure did
To give eternal life to as many as the Father has given Him Jn 17:2
Thats false, Pauls ministry is for the sake of the elect/ chosen people 2 Tim 2:10
I have dealt with this numerous times, that imperative is solely to the already reconciled
I understand your desire to give God all the credit, but a war involves two parties. Both sides must agree to cease hostilities. If you want to give God credit for your surrender, then we can make a Biblical case for that. But you still need to surrender. You can't simply take it for granted.
What is he doing for them that Christ didn't already do? Think about it.
Yes Christ gets the credit for my change of mind/conversion, Its called salvation, He saved me from my sins.
Yes, I know what 'bring' means. But think about it a minute. Yes, προσαγάγῃ (“bring”) is a movement verb — but we can't assume that “movement” must mean physical relocation rather than relational access. In Greek, especially in Jewish‑Greek, this verb is technical temple language, and its “movement” is ritual, relational, and covenantal, not spatial.
You still gotta repent. Christ isn't going to do that for you.
So you admit, you changed your mind and converted. That is something you did.
Are you asking me what a minister does? When he talks about being a minister of reconciliation this means that he calls on people to reconcile with God. He literally says, "Be reconciled to God." But you want to say, "Don't worry silly, Christ already did that for you."
When you hear the gospel of Jesus Christ and acknowledge that you believe, then you are saved (Romans 10).
You have some strange ideas. If I tell my son to comb his hair and brush his teeth the assumption is that he hasn't brushed or combed. When Paul commands his readers to be reconciled, the assumption is that they haven't done it yet. If Christ combed my son's hair and brushed his teeth, I would not ask my son to do something that was already accomplished. Paul is asking his readers to be reconciled to God because it hasn't already been accomplished.
Where does it say that something is true simply by believing it? There are men who believe they are women. It doesn't make it true.
