Reformers, Presbyterians, and Early Protestants.
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I am not sure that is the correct term for Christ. He was not trying to reform Judaism, as practiced by the religious leaders of His day. In fact He totally rejected their religion, since Christ needed to teach them the truth of God and preach the Gospel.
I remember.. the statues (Reformation wall)
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I was in Geneva..years ago.
- short trip.
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John Knox
- my favorite Reformer.
Point taken, but He was trying to get people who had swayed from truth back to it. If you say...you have heard it said, but I say...you might just be a reformer.
I believe I heard it said of Mary, Queen of Scots, that she said she feared the prayers of John Knox more than a 20,000 man army.
many of those men were martyred for their faith. i always find Thomas Cranmer's death a touching testimony to the glory of God.
...of whom the world was not worthy...
...of whom the world was not worthy...
I have studied the Reformation in secondary post Biblical Universities and always laughed at this idea of making such claims about the reformation itself. What did Luther actually reform himself of?
When we do an in depth study of the RCC we find their rejection of the New Testament and their own (b)ible which included their own (early) priest teachings. So they added to the true Word of God and created false idioms of what was already established by the Acts Church.
So Luther did not reform nor anyone else. They denied the false religion and went back to the [core] of the New Testament. Grant it they failed in several areas when doing so, but the important thing is they found their way back to something similar to what Jesus Himself established and had His Apostles preach/teach.
So it wasn't a reformation but a continuation of the Gospel of Christ they attempted to re-establish. And "kudos" for that
When we do an in depth study of the RCC we find their rejection of the New Testament and their own (b)ible which included their own (early) priest teachings. So they added to the true Word of God and created false idioms of what was already established by the Acts Church.
So Luther did not reform nor anyone else. They denied the false religion and went back to the [core] of the New Testament. Grant it they failed in several areas when doing so, but the important thing is they found their way back to something similar to what Jesus Himself established and had His Apostles preach/teach.
So it wasn't a reformation but a continuation of the Gospel of Christ they attempted to re-establish. And "kudos" for that
I don't think that a single person could be held up as the most important reformer!
Most of the important documents were a group effort, combining the efforts of many men. i.e. The Belgic Confession, The Cannons of Dort, Heidelberg Catechism, etc.
These documents were written to provide documented reference to the reformed belief and were backed up by scripture references for teaching purposes.
However, don't eliminate the Roman Catholic Church itself. Although I would not agree with their teaching, they must be credited with securing historical biblical documents.
I would also like to support the importance of the printing press. Remember, Luther once said, “The devil hates goose quills”.
Most of the important documents were a group effort, combining the efforts of many men. i.e. The Belgic Confession, The Cannons of Dort, Heidelberg Catechism, etc.
These documents were written to provide documented reference to the reformed belief and were backed up by scripture references for teaching purposes.
However, don't eliminate the Roman Catholic Church itself. Although I would not agree with their teaching, they must be credited with securing historical biblical documents.
I would also like to support the importance of the printing press. Remember, Luther once said, “The devil hates goose quills”.
I bet he hates porcupine quills the worst.Did/does he prefer the quills of swans and/or turkeys? .
Gotta be swan quillsDid/does he prefer the quills of swans and/or turkeys? .
About the Swan
The swan is a popular symbol for Martin Luther and is frequently found in Lutheran art. The history (or perhaps legend) behind the references to Luther as a swan are quite interesting. Here is a brief summary of the history behind the swan references.
The Goose
Jan Hus (1370-1415), whose name literally means “Goose” in the Bohemian language, was an important religious figure whose teachings strongly influenced Martin Luther and the Reformation. He was excommunicated and burned at the stake on July 6, 1415. So what does this have to do with Luther and a swan? The following is recorded by a priest observing the execution of Hus. Just prior to being burned at the stake, Hus was asked to recant his teachings. His response…
“You are now going to burn a goose, but in a century
you will have a swan which you can neither roast nor boil.”
The Dream
The evening before October 31, 1517, the Elector Frederick of Saxony had a dream which was recorded by his brother, Duke John. The dream, in short, is about a monk who wrote on the church door of Wittenberg with a pen so large that it reached to Rome. The more those in authority tried to break the pen, the stronger it became. When asked how the pen got so strong, the monk replied “The pen belonged to an old goose of Bohemia, a hundred years old.” The Elector was unsure exactly what the dream meant, but believed he had an interpretation which he thought may be accurate. The very morning he shared his dream, Martin Luther was posting his theses. Almost exactly 100 years later, on October 31, 1517 Martin Luther posted his 95 Theses on the door of the Castle Church in Wittenberg.
The Swan
Martin Luther himself, who clearly would be familiar with the history of Jan Hus, referred to himself as the swan of which Hus prophesied. In fact, Luther’s fulfilling of Hus’ prophesy is even mentioned in the sermon at Luther’s funeral in 1546. After the death of Luther, the great Reformer was frequently portrayed with a swan in Lutheran art. And this is why Lutheran Press bears the swan logo and proudly continues to “Trumpet the Swan!” ~About the Swan – Lutheran Press
~Deuteronomy (David)
Precious friend, have to agree, as Scripture Says:
"For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare
ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they
measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing
themselves among themselves, are not wise."
(2 Corinthians 10:12 AV)
I believe exalting The Lord Jesus Christ ( not men - 1 Corinthians 3:21 ) ,"loving our neighbor" and studying/recognizing/speaking sound
doctrines may be near the top of the highest labor/building priorities
on The "Judgment Seat" list?
"Wherefore God also hath highly Exalted Him, and given Him
A Name Which is above every name" (Philippians 2:9 AV)
"For all the law is fulfilled in One Word, even in this;
Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. "
(Galatians 5:14; Romans 13:8-10 AV)
"But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine"
(Titus 2:1; 1:9 AV)
Amen.
At its heart are statues to William Farel, John Calvin, Theodore Beza, and John Knox.
I think all Evangelicals and Protestants can give credit to the church elders of Geneva, for their contribution of the Christian faith.
We can't forget the first reformer from Germany, Martin Luther.
What I'm hoping for is a mostly positive and informative contributions of Biblical doctrines, by early church leaders in the dark ages.
Who would you say, is the most important Reformer?
Who would you say, got it mostly right in the Biblical sense?
Who would you recommend studying first, if your not familar with most of the early church elders?
How did these elders shape Western Churches and Biblical Studies?
No, I'm not trying to have a heated debate, the intention of this thread is to bring insight of our early church leaders, and how the help shaped Biblical doctrine?
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Jas 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
There are many people that have contributed to people having a better understanding of the Bible but I do not pay too much attention to them, and do not look up to them as great, but I check everything out for myself.
There is not any person that I listen to from the past, or the present, for if I check it out for myself it will more likely be right.
The same with prophesy, and what is going on at the end time I do not listen to anyone, and do not seek anyone out, but I check it out for myself.
And the truth is the foundation for understanding the end time is the new age movement which they interpret the Bible according to the occult and evolution, and people are evolving to be spiritual, and a god, and there is no personal God.
Which they are the reason the world rebels against God which then He will end sin on earth.
Science is saying they have new discoveries, and new findings that give them a new perspective of things which they will make all things compatible with the new age movement beliefs, and reality.
History, people, the universe, the origins of people, the conscious, God, Jesus, the Bible, religions, evolution, mathematics in he universe, everything they are going to make compatible with the new age movement beliefs, and reality.
Which they believe aliens are going to help mankind have peace, and advance, and evolve, and Science says humans are not from the earth, and the world needs to prepare for an alien encounter.
Science will say we believe the Bible is true to the world, but they will support the new age movement interpretation of the Bible saying they have new discoveries, and new findings that support that.
Which Scientists said they found a lost chapter of the Bible, and they will probably say they found more parts of the Bible, but they will use them to say they have a new perspective of the Bible that will be of the new age movement beliefs.
They will even lie like they do now, and have been lying, to convince the people to adhere to the Bible, and the new age movement that has the right interpretation of the Bible.
Which the Bible says the time will come when people will not want to hear the truth of the Bible, but will want to hear the Bible according to their own lusts, and they will turn their ears from the truth, and be turned on to fables.
Which is the new age movement which when the New Age Christ starts working in the world he will push the agenda of the new age movement which he will think to change times, and laws, and then that is when people will go by the new age movement interpretation of the Bible which the new age movement will come out at the latter times.
The devil is using a false interpretation of the Bible to deceive the world that exalts people to evolve to be spiritual, and a god, and there is no personal God, but the higher power is the God of forces, or the power of nature.
Not only to deceive people from the truth of the Bible for it is salvation, but also because the Bible is the most popular book in the world.
Christians for sure adhere to the Bible, but the other religion also believe the Bible has truth but they interpret the Bible according to their religion, which Islam says the Quran is the last book of the Bible, and the Bible is the truth, but they say some of it is written by man.
God is ready to end sin on earth so He is giving the world a certain amount of time to have their way and cause all people that do not love Him to follow the New Age Christ, and when they do He will end sin on earth, and have His people with Him.
So the devils will be able to work in the world more than in the past which the Bible says the new age movement beliefs are of seducing spirits and doctrines of devils.
I'm not sure. I'm just glad we did not use quills when I was in grade school. I probably would have written on the neck of the student in front of me!
