Replacement/Supersessionism Theology,Why it Matters

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K

kaylagrl

Guest
#1
#1
Im seeing many posts here lately that worry me. It seems some Christians here dont understand replacement theology,why it is heresy and why it is dangerous. They dont know the history of this theology and the harm done to the Jewish people. So I hope to discuss it here.

First a definition :Supersessionism, also called replacement theology or fulfillment theology, is a Christian theological view on the current status of the church in relation to the Jewish people and Judaism.It holds that the Christian Church has replaced the Israelites as God's chosen people and that the New Covenant has replaced or superseded the Mosaic covenant. From a supersessionist's "point of view, just by continuing to exist, the Jews dissent".This view directly contrasts with dual-covenant theology which holds that the Mosaic Covenant remains valid for Jews. Supersessionism formed a core tenet of the Church for the majority of its existence, and remains a common assumption among Christians. Since the Holocaust some mainstream Christian theologians and denominations have rejected supersessionism. Wikipedia

So to open, did you know that Hilter wasn't the first to put Jews in ghettos and make them wear the yellow Star of David? Do you know that it was Pope Pius VII who began this persecution of the Jews? And that some of the church Fathers before him were antisemitic? The Jews are under attack once again and it greatly disturbs me to see "Christians" so called also persecuting Jews. So Ive started off and will continue to add to the thread along the way. Id like to discuss the history of the early church,the beginning of antisemitism, and why Christians should support,not persecute,the Jews. Feel free to add any thoughts. Please do not derail the thread for you own purposes. I will bring it back on point if you do!
 
J

james57

Banned
#2
Oct 21, 2015
2,420
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#2
It is interesting to me that the greatest power and most rapid growth seen in the christian church was before the scholar and theologian emerged with their various theologies.
The bible is absolutely clear about future blessings for the nation of Israel, and them being returned to their biblical homeland.
Only the brilliant academic mind of man(bereft of the holy spirits leading) could invent theologies to contradict that truth
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#3
#3
james57 said:
It is interesting to me that the greatest power and most rapid growth seen in the christian church was before the scholar and theologian emerged with their various theologies.
The bible is absolutely clear about future blessings for the nation of Israel, and them being returned to their biblical homeland.
Only the brilliant academic mind of man(bereft of the holy spirits leading) could invent theologies to contradict that truth
Click to expand...

Amen! Thank you for sharing that. Certainly makes one think. You made quite a point there!
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#4
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
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#4
There is no such thing as replacement theology... you can't replace something that never existed to start with. Seriously where do you get that Israel has ever been God's chosen people?
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#5
#5
KJV1611 said:
There is no such thing as replacement theology... you can't replace something that never existed to start with. Seriously where do you get that Israel has ever been God's chosen people?
Click to expand...

Not really in the mood for nonsense tonight. Israel has been and always will be Gods chosen people. How you can read the Bible and not see that is beyond me. Certainly any good student of the Bible knows it to be fact. You're so far out in left field I cant get there from here.I dont know what church you attend but I hope there arent more like you out there. Frightening thought.
 
J

james57

Banned
#6
Oct 21, 2015
2,420
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#6
The lord knows the thoughts of the wise are futile 1cor3:20
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#7
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
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#7
kaylagrl said:
Not really in the mood for nonsense tonight. Israel has been and always will be Gods chosen people. How you can read the Bible and not see that is beyond me. Certainly any good student of the Bible knows it to be fact. You're so far out in left field I cant get there from here.I dont know what church you attend but I hope there arent more like you out there. Frightening thought.
Click to expand...
Paul is pretty clear in saying that they are not all Israel (or the promise) which are of Israel (physical descendants). How much more clear can you get? Physical descendants of Israel were not the chosen ones, only the ones who were born of the promise i.e. born of heavenly Jerusalem. Isaac was called because he had the faith of Abraham, not because he was his physical offspring.

Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Rom 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
 
Yonah

Yonah

Senior Member
#8
Oct 31, 2014
1,074
103
48
#8
KJV1611 said:
There is no such thing as replacement theology... you can't replace something that never existed to start with. Seriously where do you get that Israel has ever been God's chosen people?
Click to expand...
in the scripture here I will show you: Duet. 7:6, Duet. 14:2, Duet. 6:28, Exo. 19:5, this is just a few, please read them in their context... here is some from the NT Rom. 11:1, Rom. 11:2, Rom, 15:10 and finally this one Rev 21:12
 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
seems to me if there were no chosen people the bible is lying... so which is it?
 
K

Kefa54

Guest
#9
#9
I'd just pack my bags and walk away from this stuff. Just more garbage to mess with our faith.
( Yess I looked it up on my own.)

Kefa


kaylagrl said:
Im seeing many posts here lately that worry me. It seems some Christians here dont understand replacement theology,why it is heresy and why it is dangerous. They dont know the history of this theology and the harm done to the Jewish people. So I hope to discuss it here.

First a definition :Supersessionism, also called replacement theology or fulfillment theology, is a Christian theological view on the current status of the church in relation to the Jewish peopleand Judaism.It holds that the Christian Church has replaced the Israelites as God'schosen peopleand that the New Covenant has replaced or superseded the Mosaic covenant. From a supersessionist's "point of view, just by continuing to exist, the Jews dissent".This view directly contrasts with dual-covenant theology which holds that the Mosaic Covenant remains valid for Jews. Supersessionism formed a core tenet of the Church for the majority of its existence, and remains a common assumption among Christians. Since the Holocaust some mainstream Christian theologians and denominationshave rejected supersessionism. Wikipedia

So to open, did you know that Hilter wasn't the first to put Jews in ghettos and make them wear the yellow Star of David? Do you know that it was Pope Pius VII who began this persecution of the Jews? And that some of the church Fathers before him were antisemitic? The Jews are under attack once again and it greatly disturbs me to see "Christians" so called also persecuting Jews. So Ive started off and will continue to add to the thread along the way. Id like to discuss the history of the early church,the beginning of antisemitism, and why Christians should support,not persecute,the Jews. Feel free to add any thoughts. Please do not derail the thread for you own purposes. I will bring it back on point if you do!
Click to expand...
 
C

Cassian

Senior Member
#10
Oct 12, 2013
1,960
7
0
#10
Yonah said:
in the scripture here I will show you: Duet. 7:6, Duet. 14:2, Duet. 6:28, Exo. 19:5, this is just a few, please read them in their context... here is some from the NT Rom. 11:1, Rom. 11:2, Rom, 15:10 and finally this one Rev 21:12
 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are thenames of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
seems to me if there were no chosen people the bible is lying... so which is it?
Click to expand...
It was never about the nation or physical Jew. God needed a nation in which the Seed would come. This view of Israel today being some kind of favored people goes against every thing in scripture. Read Gal 3:27-29 and Eph 2:13-18. It puts this modern theory in the wastebasket. It is a theory that denies Christ and His accomplishment for man.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#11
Nov 24, 2012
30,783
3,684
113
#11
KJV1611 said:
There is no such thing as replacement theology... you can't replace something that never existed to start with. Seriously where do you get that Israel has ever been God's chosen people?
Click to expand...
But you, Israel, my servant, Jacob, whom I have chosen, the offspring of Abraham, my friend; you whom I took from the ends of the earth, and called from its farthest corners, saying to you, "You are my servant, I have chosen you and not cast you off"; fear not, for I am with you; be not dismayed, for I am your God; I will strengthen you, I will help you, I will uphold you with my righteous right hand.
(Isa 41:8-10)
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#12
Nov 24, 2012
30,783
3,684
113
#12
I ask, then, has God rejected his people? By no means! For I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, a member of the tribe of Benjamin.
(Rom 11:1)

So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace.
(Rom 11:5)


So I ask, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means! Rather through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous. Now if their trespass means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean!
(Rom 11:11-12)


And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again.
(Rom 11:23)

Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
(Rom 11:25)

QUIT ARGUING, SHOW ME YOUR SCRIPTURES!!
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#13
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
#13
Yonah said:
in the scripture here I will show you: Duet. 7:6, Duet. 14:2, Duet. 6:28, Exo. 19:5, this is just a few, please read them in their context... here is some from the NT Rom. 11:1, Rom. 11:2, Rom, 15:10 and finally this one Rev 21:12
 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are thenames of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
seems to me if there were no chosen people the bible is lying... so which is it?
Click to expand...
Physical Israel was chosen for a lot of things. The oracles of God were committed to them, God chose their bloodline to bear the Messiah. But they were not chosen for the promise and inheritance made to Abraham. The promise to Abraham was to Abraham and his seed Christ, which includes all children of faith whether Jew or Gentile. National Israel is not God's elect.

Romans 11:7 - National Israel has not obtained the promise but the elect have because they sought it by faith.

Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#14
#14
kaylagrl said:
Im seeing many posts here lately that worry me. It seems some Christians here dont understand replacement theology,why it is heresy and why it is dangerous. They dont know the history of this theology and the harm done to the Jewish people. So I hope to discuss it here.

It holds that the Christian Church has replaced the Israelites as God's chosen people and that the New Covenant has replaced or superseded the Mosaic covenant.
Click to expand...
Um. What about Jesus and His sacrifice? Believers living in light of the New Covenant, not the Old Covenant.
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#16
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
#16
crossnote said:
I ask, then, has God rejected his people? By no means! For I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, a member of the tribe of Benjamin.
(Rom 11:1)

So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace.
(Rom 11:5)


So I ask, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means! Rather through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous. Now if their trespass means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean!
(Rom 11:11-12)


And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again.
(Rom 11:23)

Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
(Rom 11:25)e

QUIT ARGUING, SHOW ME YOUR SCRIPTURES!!
Click to expand...
Was Paul saved because he was an Israelite or because he had faith in Jesus?
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#17
#17
Kefa54 said:
I'd just pack my bags and walk away from this stuff. Just more garbage to mess with our faith.
( Yess I looked it up on my own.)

Kefa
Click to expand...

Well Id rather you walk away if you couldnt properly add to the thread. But it is not garbage. It is a heretical theology and a way satan uses to persecute the Jews. Every Christian should know the truth about it.
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#18
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
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#18
crossnote said:
But you, Israel, my servant, Jacob, whom I have chosen, the offspring of Abraham, my friend; you whom I took from the ends of the earth, and called from its farthest corners, saying to you, "You are my servant, I have chosen you and not cast you off"; fear not, for I am with you; be not dismayed, for I am your God; I will strengthen you, I will help you, I will uphold you with my righteous right hand.
(Isa 41:8-10)
Click to expand...
Which offspring of Abraham was God talking about, the spiritual seed or the physical seed?
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#19
#19
Tintin said:
Um. What about Jesus and His sacrifice? Believers living in light of the New Covenant, not the Old Covenant.
Click to expand...
We have been grafted in.
 
J

james57

Banned
#20
Oct 21, 2015
2,420
12
0
#20
On a positive note. Though even many in the church refuse to accept future blessings specifically for Israel, and the Muslim religion gains in strength, ultimately this will result in Israel being isolated, they will stand alone. When the events foretold in Zechariah Ch12 take place it will be like it was in OT times when israel faced what were naturally insurmountable odds, yet won the battles. And God will want them to stand alone, so all see it was only his power that won the battle for them.
 
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