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E
1. It says the whole house of Israel will know that I am lord. That did not happen at pentecost
2. It says that the Whole house of Israel will know that God punished them by sending them out of Israel and scattering them into the world (that did not occure until AD 70. Ad Israel STILL DOES NOT REALISE THIS)
3. it says God will have brought them BACK INTO THEIR LAND, NEVER TO send them into captivity again (again, did not happen at pentecost. and has not happened even till this day THEY ARE STILL CAPTIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
4. It says he wil not hide his face from them anyore. Yet even paul says in Rom 11. God has hid his face from the majority of them, he only has a remnant, the rest are BLIND.. SO NO IT DID NOT HAPPEN IN PENTECOST)
5. It says he has poured out his spirit on the WHOLE HOUSE OF ISRAEL.. According to paul. THIS IS A FUTURE EVENT.. And the prophet did not say this was an ONGOING THING, It says it is a ONE TIME EVENT..
so instead of using your continued strawman attempt to prove yourself. and being sarcastic.
why do you not OPEN YOUR EYES and your EARS< and see what the prophet actually said..
Because your the one who has your ears shut!
2. It says that the Whole house of Israel will know that God punished them by sending them out of Israel and scattering them into the world (that did not occure until AD 70. Ad Israel STILL DOES NOT REALISE THIS)
3. it says God will have brought them BACK INTO THEIR LAND, NEVER TO send them into captivity again (again, did not happen at pentecost. and has not happened even till this day THEY ARE STILL CAPTIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
4. It says he wil not hide his face from them anyore. Yet even paul says in Rom 11. God has hid his face from the majority of them, he only has a remnant, the rest are BLIND.. SO NO IT DID NOT HAPPEN IN PENTECOST)
5. It says he has poured out his spirit on the WHOLE HOUSE OF ISRAEL.. According to paul. THIS IS A FUTURE EVENT.. And the prophet did not say this was an ONGOING THING, It says it is a ONE TIME EVENT..
so instead of using your continued strawman attempt to prove yourself. and being sarcastic.
why do you not OPEN YOUR EYES and your EARS< and see what the prophet actually said..
Because your the one who has your ears shut!
About time someone looked at these verses in context. I just read Ezekiel on my yearly "read through the Bible." It was a hard read, there is a lot going on, for sure. But this basic outline by JimmieD describes what I read.
Taking anything like a few verses in Ezekiel and grabbing them out of the past, and slapping them into some recently invented interpretation of end times is simply the worst of hermeneutics. It presupposes a lot of things which are total speculation.
Israel as a modern country - created by God or man? I think humans! Too many things are not in keeping with the Biblical model of Israel.
Do I think Israel should exist? Absolutely! When I think of what was done to the Jews during and after WWII, I can't imagine how anyone could deny them a place to live. Canada and the US were complicit because they refused to accept boat loads of Jewish immigrants who escaped Germany, only to find that no country in the world would take them.
But is this Israel from God? I just don't see it. You don't have to be a anti-semite to support the amill position. But neither do I believe the Bible says anywhere that Jews have a Plan B for salvation. They need to repent of their sins and turn to Jesus. Until that day, they are just another group of unbelievers.
K
But that's the point the Bible isn't saying anything so absurd. That is just your wrong interpretation (tossed out, not proved lol).
what Ezekiel 39.28 ACTUALLY says is, 'I will leave none of them any more there'. Who is He talking about? The 3,023 + the 832 + the 745 of Jer 52.28 ff. Well I have good news for you. they went back after the exile
So you can stop worrying
what Ezekiel 39.28 ACTUALLY says is, 'I will leave none of them any more there'. Who is He talking about? The 3,023 + the 832 + the 745 of Jer 52.28 ff. Well I have good news for you. they went back after the exile
So you can stop worrying
Umm eternally- gratefull nailed the answer so Im just going to pat him on the back and say thanks.
Yeah right, the mountain. You mean the one that supposedly will split in half from east to west that a remnant will flee through east to Azal?
Oh my, look where Azal is. South of Jerusalem and that mountain. Might have to change your narrative on this.
click > Azal on Google Maps
Oh my, look where Azal is. South of Jerusalem and that mountain. Might have to change your narrative on this.
click > Azal on Google Maps
E
This is the problem.
No on here says Israel has a plan B for salvation.
And funny you should say this, Ezek actually says non of the things prophesied will OCCURE until Israel repents.
(ez 39- actually says Israel will know of their guilt and rejection of God. That is why they were dispersed in the first place. Lev 26 says they must repent first.. All the prophesies say nothing will occure until Israel repents of her sin against God and his messiah)
So what exactly is the issue?
Other than a false presumption of what people actually believe.
No on here says Israel has a plan B for salvation.
And funny you should say this, Ezek actually says non of the things prophesied will OCCURE until Israel repents.
(ez 39- actually says Israel will know of their guilt and rejection of God. That is why they were dispersed in the first place. Lev 26 says they must repent first.. All the prophesies say nothing will occure until Israel repents of her sin against God and his messiah)
So what exactly is the issue?
Other than a false presumption of what people actually believe.
E
I have studied this for over 30 years. Very little people actually teach this, they are in the minority. In fact, you would have to search quite hard to even find it as part of any belief system.
So why are you going to condemn a doctrine based on what a few people believe?
It is not. The temple has not even been rebuilt yet. and there are still more people of jewish descent in the US than there are in Israel. And Jerusalem is still in Gentile hands..
So what prophesy is this?
Oh, That Israel will be scattered and The temple lie in ruins Until Israel repents.
So why are you going to condemn a doctrine based on what a few people believe?
It is not. The temple has not even been rebuilt yet. and there are still more people of jewish descent in the US than there are in Israel. And Jerusalem is still in Gentile hands..
So what prophesy is this?
Oh, That Israel will be scattered and The temple lie in ruins Until Israel repents.
A Comparison and Contrast Between
Israel and the Church
Israel
The Church
Israel is a nation chosen by God and sustained by covenant promises (Deut. 7:6-9). Not all individuals in this chosen nation are saved (Rom. 9:6; 11:28).
The Church is a called out assembly of believers who have been baptized into the body of Christ (1 Cor. 12:13). Every member of the body of Christ is saved, though there are multitudes of professing Christians who may not be saved (2 Tim. 2:19).
Israel traces its origin to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (Jacob being the father of the twelve tribes).
The Church traces its origin to the day of Pentecost (Acts 2) when believers were first placed into the body of Christ.
In God’s program for Israel, His witnesses comprised a nation (Isaiah 43:10).
In God’s program for the Church, His witnesses are among all nations (Acts 1:8).
God’s program for Israel centered in Jerusalem (Matt. 23:37) and will again center in Jerusalem during the Tribulation (Matt. 24:15-20) and during the Millennium (Isa. 2:1-5).
God’s program for His Church began in Jerusalem and extended to the uttermost parts of the earth (Luke 24:47; Acts 1:8). The Church is identified with the risen Christ, not with any earthly city.
The hope and expectancy of Israel was earthly, centering in the establishment of the Kingdom of the Messiah foretold by the prophets (Jer. 23:5-8; Isa. 2:1-5; 11:1-16).
The hope and expectancy of the Church is heavenly, centering in the glorious appearing of Christ to take His people to heaven (John 14:1-3; Phil. 3:20-21; Col. 3:1-4; 1 Thess. 4:13-18).
God’s purpose and program for Israel was revealed in the Old Testament Scriptures.
God’s purpose and program for the Church was not revealed in the Old Testament, but was revealed by the New Testament apostles and prophets (Eph. 3:5).
Israel’s history which is in view in Daniel 9:24 (the 70 weeks or 490 years) involved animal sacrifices. These years will include the tribulation. Israel’s millennial history will involve the same (Ezek. 43:27).
The Church’s history does not involve animal sacrifices. Messiah’s sacrifice is commemorated by means of the Lord’s Table.
Israel’s history which is in view in Daniel 9:24 (the 490 years including also the Tribulation) involves a temple in Jerusalem. The same will be true in the Millennium (Ezek. chapters 40-48).
During most of the Church age there is no Jewish temple in Jerusalem. In this age God manifests His glory in His believers, both individually and collectively, designating them as His temple (1 Cor. 3:16; 6:19-20; Eph. 2:21-22). This is accomplished by the indwelling ministry of God the Holy Spirit.
Israel’s history which is in view in Daniel 9:24 (the 490 years) involves a priesthood limited to the sons of Aaron, and excluding most Israelites. The same applies to the Millennium when Zadokian priests (also sons of Aaron) will serve in the temple (Ezek. 40:46; 43:19; 44:15).
During the Church age every true believer is a priest and able to offer spiritual sacrifices to the Lord (Heb. 13:15; 1 Pet. 2:9; Rev. 1:6). Whereas Israel had a priesthood, the Churchis a priesthood.
Israel’s history which is in view in Daniel 9:24 (the 490 years) will terminate with the coming of the Messiah to the earth to establish His Kingdom reign.
The Church’s history will end at the Rapture of the Church when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in (1 Thess. 4:13-18; Rom. 11:25).
During Israel’s history (the 490 years of Daniel 9:24 which also includes the Tribulation) the ethnic makeup of the world is bipartite: Jews and Gentiles. This division of all people into Jews and Gentiles will also apply to those in the Millennial Kingdom in natural bodies.
During the Church age from Pentecost to the Rapture the ethnic makeup of the world is tripartite: Jews, Gentiles, and the Church of God (1 Cor. 10:32), the Church being composed of saved Jews and Gentiles united together in one Body (Eph. 2:15; 3:6).
During Israel’s history, from Sinai to the Millennial Kingdom (excluding the Church age), Israel’s role in the world will be characterized by PRIORITY [that is, they will have a leading role as God’s chosen people]—see Deut. 4:6-8; Isa. 43:10; Matt. 10:5-6; Zech. 8:23.
During the Church age, Israel’s role in the world will be characterized by EQUALITY—Jew and Gentiles united together in one body to bear testimony to a risen Christ (Col. 3:11; Gal. 3:28).
Male Jews were circumcised as a sign of the Abrahamic Covenant. Believing Jews were circumcised in the heart (Jer. 4:4).
Believers of this age enjoy an internal circumcision not made with hands (Col. 2:11; Phil. 3:3). Physical circumcision is not required.
Israel was under the law of Moses as a rule of life.
The Church is under the “new creature” rule (Gal. 6:15-16). See our study: What is the Believer's Rule of Life?
Unbelieving Jews were physical children of Abraham and spiritual children of the devil (John 8:37-44).
Every believer in Christ (every true member of the Church, whether Jew or Gentile) is a child of Abraham and a child of God (Rom. 4:11-12; Gal. 3:326-29). This statement doesnot mean that Church age believers are Israelites. See The Use of the Term "Israel" in the N.T.
Israel was to observe the Sabbath Day (Exodus 20:8). Sabbath observance will also take place in the Tribulation (Matt. 24:20) and in the Millennium (Ezek. 46:1,3).
The Church is to be diligent and make every effort to enter into God’s rest (Heb. 4:9-11). This is a daily duty.
Membership into the Jewish nation was by birth or by becoming a proselyte (a convert to Judaism).
Membership into the Church is by the new birth accomplished by the baptizing ministry of God (1 Cor. 12:13).
Believing Jews prior to Pentecost, believing Jews during the tribulation, and believing Jews during the Kingdom reign of Christ are not members of the body of Christ.
Believing Jews and Gentiles from Pentecost to the Rapture are members of the body of Christ.
Israel’s place of worship centered in Jerusalem (Dan. 6:10; John 4:20) and this will also be true in the Tribulation (Dan. 9:27) and in the Millennium (Isa. 2:1-5).
The Church’s place of worship is “Where two or three are gathered together in My Name” (Matt. 18:20; John 4:21-24). Christ is in the midst of His Churches (Rev. 1:13, 20).
Israel is likened to the wife of Jehovah, often an unfaithful wife (Hosea).
The Church is the beloved Bride of Christ (2 Cor. 11:2; Rev. 19:7-8) to be one day presented blameless and spotless (Eph. 5:27).
Comparison & Contrast Between Israel and the Church
Israel and the Church
Israel
The Church
Israel is a nation chosen by God and sustained by covenant promises (Deut. 7:6-9). Not all individuals in this chosen nation are saved (Rom. 9:6; 11:28).
The Church is a called out assembly of believers who have been baptized into the body of Christ (1 Cor. 12:13). Every member of the body of Christ is saved, though there are multitudes of professing Christians who may not be saved (2 Tim. 2:19).
Israel traces its origin to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (Jacob being the father of the twelve tribes).
The Church traces its origin to the day of Pentecost (Acts 2) when believers were first placed into the body of Christ.
In God’s program for Israel, His witnesses comprised a nation (Isaiah 43:10).
In God’s program for the Church, His witnesses are among all nations (Acts 1:8).
God’s program for Israel centered in Jerusalem (Matt. 23:37) and will again center in Jerusalem during the Tribulation (Matt. 24:15-20) and during the Millennium (Isa. 2:1-5).
God’s program for His Church began in Jerusalem and extended to the uttermost parts of the earth (Luke 24:47; Acts 1:8). The Church is identified with the risen Christ, not with any earthly city.
The hope and expectancy of Israel was earthly, centering in the establishment of the Kingdom of the Messiah foretold by the prophets (Jer. 23:5-8; Isa. 2:1-5; 11:1-16).
The hope and expectancy of the Church is heavenly, centering in the glorious appearing of Christ to take His people to heaven (John 14:1-3; Phil. 3:20-21; Col. 3:1-4; 1 Thess. 4:13-18).
God’s purpose and program for Israel was revealed in the Old Testament Scriptures.
God’s purpose and program for the Church was not revealed in the Old Testament, but was revealed by the New Testament apostles and prophets (Eph. 3:5).
Israel’s history which is in view in Daniel 9:24 (the 70 weeks or 490 years) involved animal sacrifices. These years will include the tribulation. Israel’s millennial history will involve the same (Ezek. 43:27).
The Church’s history does not involve animal sacrifices. Messiah’s sacrifice is commemorated by means of the Lord’s Table.
Israel’s history which is in view in Daniel 9:24 (the 490 years including also the Tribulation) involves a temple in Jerusalem. The same will be true in the Millennium (Ezek. chapters 40-48).
During most of the Church age there is no Jewish temple in Jerusalem. In this age God manifests His glory in His believers, both individually and collectively, designating them as His temple (1 Cor. 3:16; 6:19-20; Eph. 2:21-22). This is accomplished by the indwelling ministry of God the Holy Spirit.
Israel’s history which is in view in Daniel 9:24 (the 490 years) involves a priesthood limited to the sons of Aaron, and excluding most Israelites. The same applies to the Millennium when Zadokian priests (also sons of Aaron) will serve in the temple (Ezek. 40:46; 43:19; 44:15).
During the Church age every true believer is a priest and able to offer spiritual sacrifices to the Lord (Heb. 13:15; 1 Pet. 2:9; Rev. 1:6). Whereas Israel had a priesthood, the Churchis a priesthood.
Israel’s history which is in view in Daniel 9:24 (the 490 years) will terminate with the coming of the Messiah to the earth to establish His Kingdom reign.
The Church’s history will end at the Rapture of the Church when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in (1 Thess. 4:13-18; Rom. 11:25).
During Israel’s history (the 490 years of Daniel 9:24 which also includes the Tribulation) the ethnic makeup of the world is bipartite: Jews and Gentiles. This division of all people into Jews and Gentiles will also apply to those in the Millennial Kingdom in natural bodies.
During the Church age from Pentecost to the Rapture the ethnic makeup of the world is tripartite: Jews, Gentiles, and the Church of God (1 Cor. 10:32), the Church being composed of saved Jews and Gentiles united together in one Body (Eph. 2:15; 3:6).
During Israel’s history, from Sinai to the Millennial Kingdom (excluding the Church age), Israel’s role in the world will be characterized by PRIORITY [that is, they will have a leading role as God’s chosen people]—see Deut. 4:6-8; Isa. 43:10; Matt. 10:5-6; Zech. 8:23.
During the Church age, Israel’s role in the world will be characterized by EQUALITY—Jew and Gentiles united together in one body to bear testimony to a risen Christ (Col. 3:11; Gal. 3:28).
Male Jews were circumcised as a sign of the Abrahamic Covenant. Believing Jews were circumcised in the heart (Jer. 4:4).
Believers of this age enjoy an internal circumcision not made with hands (Col. 2:11; Phil. 3:3). Physical circumcision is not required.
Israel was under the law of Moses as a rule of life.
The Church is under the “new creature” rule (Gal. 6:15-16). See our study: What is the Believer's Rule of Life?
Unbelieving Jews were physical children of Abraham and spiritual children of the devil (John 8:37-44).
Every believer in Christ (every true member of the Church, whether Jew or Gentile) is a child of Abraham and a child of God (Rom. 4:11-12; Gal. 3:326-29). This statement doesnot mean that Church age believers are Israelites. See The Use of the Term "Israel" in the N.T.
Israel was to observe the Sabbath Day (Exodus 20:8). Sabbath observance will also take place in the Tribulation (Matt. 24:20) and in the Millennium (Ezek. 46:1,3).
The Church is to be diligent and make every effort to enter into God’s rest (Heb. 4:9-11). This is a daily duty.
Membership into the Jewish nation was by birth or by becoming a proselyte (a convert to Judaism).
Membership into the Church is by the new birth accomplished by the baptizing ministry of God (1 Cor. 12:13).
Believing Jews prior to Pentecost, believing Jews during the tribulation, and believing Jews during the Kingdom reign of Christ are not members of the body of Christ.
Believing Jews and Gentiles from Pentecost to the Rapture are members of the body of Christ.
Israel’s place of worship centered in Jerusalem (Dan. 6:10; John 4:20) and this will also be true in the Tribulation (Dan. 9:27) and in the Millennium (Isa. 2:1-5).
The Church’s place of worship is “Where two or three are gathered together in My Name” (Matt. 18:20; John 4:21-24). Christ is in the midst of His Churches (Rev. 1:13, 20).
Israel is likened to the wife of Jehovah, often an unfaithful wife (Hosea).
The Church is the beloved Bride of Christ (2 Cor. 11:2; Rev. 19:7-8) to be one day presented blameless and spotless (Eph. 5:27).
Comparison & Contrast Between Israel and the Church
Israel does not exist in the sense it did until AD70.
Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.
Matt 16:28
Jesus uses this prophecy and then fulfills it by the transfiguration within 6 days. But we think of the Jesus coming in his kingdom as the day of judgement, but Jesus meant it as a mountain top experience with 3 diciples.
I use this example to say it is unwise to say Ezekiel is talking about the end of the world or Jesus or something happening after the return from exile.
For me the end times do not matter so much as He will level the mountains and fill in the valleys, and victory through love is ours to walk in today. But to support injustice, persecution, theft is actually hypocracy and not the will of God.
But there are christians today who are convinced rebellion, dictatorship, are Gods way of blessing Israel because of the a certain reading of the prophets 3000 years ago, who are speaking about today. Strangely in every period of history since the prophets spoke someone claims it is applying to them.
Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.
Matt 16:28
Jesus uses this prophecy and then fulfills it by the transfiguration within 6 days. But we think of the Jesus coming in his kingdom as the day of judgement, but Jesus meant it as a mountain top experience with 3 diciples.
I use this example to say it is unwise to say Ezekiel is talking about the end of the world or Jesus or something happening after the return from exile.
For me the end times do not matter so much as He will level the mountains and fill in the valleys, and victory through love is ours to walk in today. But to support injustice, persecution, theft is actually hypocracy and not the will of God.
But there are christians today who are convinced rebellion, dictatorship, are Gods way of blessing Israel because of the a certain reading of the prophets 3000 years ago, who are speaking about today. Strangely in every period of history since the prophets spoke someone claims it is applying to them.