Correct. An earlier response of mine made necessary due to flexible and dodging semantics.
"replacement theology" - what is it?
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Correct. An earlier response of mine made necessary due to flexible and dodging semantics.
I read what you write. You should be more careful with what you write, then. The right words are important.
Jews killed Jesus Christ. Yes, it was predestined and the plan of God. Both things are true.
Yes, Gentiles killed Jesus Christ. Yes, it was predestined and the plan of God. Both things are true.
Jews hated Christ, Romans had no idea who He is as Christ witnessed on the cross (Father, forgive them, they do not know what they are doing).
But about Jews He said they know He is the son and heir of the kingdom. Thats why they killed Him.
Can we agree at least on this?
J
jaybird88
Guest
there were people involved at every level. leadership and common people. the source of the poison came from a small group of leadership, the people were dragged into it as thats what they do, follow their leaders even when they are corrupt.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
I am not going to blame a nation. That is what starts wars. And ther NATION did kill him, the leaders and their followers did
I will put the blame where it is due.
Many of The Jews were afraid of the Pharisee, so they followed him. There was a crowd the Pharisee gathered, and they yelled crucify him.
The Romans were also afraid. And allowed it to happen.'
All of it happened., Because we all have sinned and fall short. And he was made to be sin on our behalf.
I am typing on an IPAD it is very hard to format color.. So I am going to stop and just bold till I get back to my truck.
The flesh is not a part of the Godhead.God does not have a literal body
God is not a man as us and neither is there any daysman between God and man, and that would include the Son of man who rejected being worshiped as if God had a form.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
J
jaybird88
Guest
i think the situation was the ultimate test. herod the worst king ever, good priest removed, bad priest replaced them, Israel ruled by rome. thats what Jesus and the 12 were dealing with.
J
jaybird88
Guest
theres another passage that explains the pro pharisee crowd. they were out to imprison all believers which was why the 12 were not there. the women had to watch from a far. had i been there i could not have watched what they did to Him.
K
kaylagrl
Guest
[h=1]Mark 10:32-34[/h][FONT="]32 They were on their way up to Jerusalem, with Jesus leading the way, and the disciples were astonished, while those who followed were afraid. Again he took the Twelve aside and told them what was going to happen to him.[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]33 “We are going up to Jerusalem,” [/FONT][FONT="]he said, “and the Son of Man will be delivered over to the chief priests and the teachers of the law.They will condemn him to death and will hand him over to the Gentiles,[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]34 who will mock him and spit on him, flog him and kill him. Three days later he will rise.”
[/FONT][h=1]Luke 9:22-26[/h]
22 [FONT="]And he said, [/FONT][FONT="]“The Son of Man[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="] [FONT="][/FONT]must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and he must be killed[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT] [FONT="] and on the third day be raised to life.”[/FONT]
[h=1]Luke 21:37-22:6[/h]
[FONT="]Now the Festival of Unleavened Bread, called the Passover, was approaching,[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]2 [/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]and the chief priests and the teachers of the law were looking for some way to get rid of Jesus[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="], for they were afraid of the people.[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]3 Then Satan entered Judas, called Iscariot, one of the Twelve.[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]4 [/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]And Judas went to the chief priests and the officers of the temple guard and discussed with them how he might betray Jesus.[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]5 They were delighted and agreed to give him money.[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]6 He consented, and watched for an opportunity to hand Jesus over to them [/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]when no crowd was present.
[/FONT][h=1]Luke 22:66-23:56[/h]
[FONT="]At daybreak [/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]the council of the elders of the people, both the chief priests and the teachers of the law, met together, and Jesus was led before them.[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]67 “If you are the Messiah,” they said, “tell us.”
[/FONT][FONT="]Then the whole assembly rose and led him off to Pilate.[/FONT][FONT="] 2 And they began to accuse him, saying, “We have found this man subverting our nation. He opposes payment of taxes to Caesar and claims to be Messiah, a king.”...
8 When Herod saw Jesus, he was greatly pleased, because for a long time he had been wanting to see him. From what he had heard about him, he hoped to see him perform a sign of some sort. 9 He plied him with many questions, but Jesus gave him no answer. [/FONT][FONT="]10 The chief priests and the teachers of the law were standing there, vehemently accusing him.
[/FONT][FONT="] Pilate called together [/FONT][FONT="]the chief priests, the rulers and the people[/FONT][FONT="],14 and said to them, “You brought me this man as one who was inciting the people to rebellion. I have examined him in your presence and have found no basis for your charges against him.
[h=1]Matthew 26:3-5[/h]
3 [/FONT][FONT="]Then the chief priests and the elders of the people [/FONT][FONT="]assembled in the palace of the high priest, whose name was Caiaphas, 4 and they schemed to arrest Jesus secretly and kill him. 5 “But not during the festival,” they said, “or there may be a riot among the people.”
Matt 21
[FONT="]Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are going into the kingdom of God ahead of you. For John came to you in the way of righteousness and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes believed him; and even after you saw it, you did not change your minds and believe him. "Listen to another parable. There was a landowner who planted a vineyard, put a fence around it, dug a wine press in it, and built a watchtower. Then he leased it to tenants and went to another country. When the harvest time had come, he sent his slaves to the tenants to collect his produce. But the tenants seized his slaves and beat one, killed another, and stoned another. Again he sent other slaves, more than the first; and they treated them in the same way. Finally he sent his son to them, saying, 'They will respect my son.' But when the tenants saw the son, they said to themselves, 'This is the heir; come, let us kill him and get his inheritance." So they seized him, threw him out of the vineyard, and killed him. Now when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?" They said to him, "He will put those wretches to a miserable death, and lease the vineyard to other tenants who will give him the produce at the harvest time." Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the scriptures: 'The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone; this was the Lord's doing, and it is amazing in our eyes'? Therefore I tell you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people that produces the fruits of the kingdom. The one who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; and it will crush anyone on whom it falls." [/FONT][/FONT][FONT="][FONT="][/FONT][/FONT][FONT="][FONT="] When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard his parables, they realized that he was speaking about them. They wanted to arrest him, but they feared the crowds, because they regarded him as a prophet."
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT="][FONT="][/FONT][/FONT][FONT="][FONT="]All who exalt themselves will be humbled, and all who humble themselves will be exalted.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT][/FONT][FONT="][FONT="][/FONT][/FONT][FONT="][FONT="]But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you lock people out of the kingdom of heaven. For you do not go in yourselves, and when others are going in, you stop them.[/FONT][/FONT][FONT="][FONT="][/FONT][/FONT][FONT="]
[FONT="] [/FONT][/FONT] [FONT="][FONT="][/FONT][/FONT][FONT="][FONT="] Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites![/FONT][/FONT][FONT="][FONT="][/FONT][/FONT] [FONT="][FONT="] For you cross sea and land to make a single convert, and you make the new convert twice as much a child of hell as yourselves. . .[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT][/FONT][FONT="][FONT="]"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! [/FONT][/FONT][FONT="][FONT="] For you tithe mint, dill, and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. It is these you ought to have practiced without neglecting the others. You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel! [/FONT]
[FONT="] Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and of the plate, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. You blind Pharisees! First clean the inside of the cup, so that the outside also may become clean.[/FONT]
[FONT="] Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which on the outside look beautiful, but inside they are full of the bones of the dead and of all kinds of filth. So you also on the outside look righteous to others, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness. [/FONT]
[FONT="] Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous, and you say, 'If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.' Thus you testify against yourselves that you are descendants of those who murdered the prophets. Fill up, then, the measure of your ancestors. You snakes, you brood of vipers! How can you escape being sentenced to hell? Therefore I send you prophets, sages, and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town, so that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar.
[/FONT]Luke 11
[FONT="]"Woe to you Pharisees! For you love to have the seat of honor in the synagogues and to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces.[/FONT]
[FONT="] Woe to you! For you are like unmarked graves, and people walk over them without realizing it." One of the lawyers ( a professional student of "the Law and the Prophets") answered him, "Teacher, when you say these things, you insult us too." And he said, [/FONT]
[FONT="] "Woe also to you lawyers! For you load people with burdens hard to bear, and you yourselves do not lift a finger to ease them. [/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT][/FONT] [FONT="][FONT="][/FONT][/FONT][FONT="][FONT="]Woe to you! For you build the tombs of the prophets whom your ancestors killed. So you are witnesses and approve of the deeds of your ancestors; for they killed them, and you build their tombs. Therefore also the Wisdom of God said, 'I will send them prophets and apostles, some of whom they will kill and persecute,' so that this generation may be charged with the blood of all the prophets shed since the foundation of the world,[/FONT][/FONT][FONT="][FONT="][/FONT][/FONT] [FONT="][FONT="] from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah,"
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT="]John 12
[FONT="]"When the great crowd of the (Leaders of the) Jews learned that he was there, they came not only because of Jesus but also to see Lazarus, whom he had raised from the dead. [/FONT][/FONT][FONT="][FONT="]So the chief priests planned to put Lazarus to death as well, since it was on account of him that many of the (Leaders of the) Jews were deserting and were believing in Jesus.
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT="][FONT="][/FONT]
[/FONT]
K
kaylagrl
Guest
Jesus told us who was going to kill Him. The chief priests,Pharisees wanted to kill Him.He escaped until His time for death came. Many times they wanted to arrest Him but didn't for fear of "the people".Who were they? Jews! They were believing in Jesus and that was a treat to the establishment,to the religious rulers and that is why they sought to kill Him. The Romans nailed Him to the cross,our sins put Him there.THAT is who killed Jesus. Not "Jews" as a race.
K
kaylagrl
Guest
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Yes, Because although they were allowed back in after babylon by persia. they were still in sin..
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
nor could I.. Probably a blessing they did not know it was because of them he did this. Would have made it harder.. Blindness is sometimes for our own benefit.
At this time and place the Roman Empire was content to 'keep the peace'. However, there were many Jewish people that kept causing problems for Jesus and His disciples (in the near future)...(i.e. Paul and Thessiloneans). This is what a few of the people in this thread are referring to..."Pauls two epistles to Thessilonica". Will continue later but it should be known that the atmosphere changes for the worst for after the removal of Jesus by the Pharisees and Romans together persecution of the Christians begin in earnest.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
true
But the fact remains. That was not a nation persecuting the church, It was a select group of people persecuting the church. Which at that time consisted mostly of their fellow countrymen.
That is the discussion. Should we blame the jewish nation for crucifying Christ? or a select group of people. in that nation. as well as others (namely the romans, who could have stopped it, so they are just as uch to blame.)
Why blame the Romans ? Wasn't it the Roman hierarchy that was responsible ? Should we blame the Roman nation for the acts of a few ? Why are you anti-Roman ?
