Replacement theology? Yes or No.

[Churchgoer]

I had to read this through several times as I really don’t understand the application given them in this context…
I can only try to explain each one as I understand it…

You said…
“So the prayers and pleas of Jesus to forgive and the repeated statements of no man takes my life I lay it down for I have that power and also the power to pick it up again is null and void?”

Jesus taught us that forgiveness can only be granted on the basis of repentance….so not repentance means no forgiveness…have the Jews repented?
Not sure what Jesus words as “repeated statements” mean in context here….what was your point?
What was “null and void”?
The Scripture you referred to I believe, is John 10:17-18…

“For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father.” (ESV)

From whom does Jesus receive his authority? (Matt 28:18) Who resurrected Jesus…? (Acts 2:31-32)

You said…
“Isaiah 53 8 says it pleased the lord to bruise him. Also it was told before hand that Jesus would be rejected.
Pslams 22 is a clear picture of that rejection.”

Again I have no objection to any of that….so what is your point?

You said…
“Jesus rebukes Peter aka Satan when Peter protest against Jesus's fate.”

Actually Jesus rebuked Peter as he was doing to Jesus what Satan did to the woman in Eden. Trying to plant seeds of doubt about the mission he was about to undertake, knowing in advance that he would have to surrender his life…Peter was thinking like a human and not like God. (Matt 16:22-23)

You said…
“The duel ministry that Christ had and has as Jewish messiah and savior of the Gentiles will come to pass. Fulfilling all that was promised.
God siad he will do it for his name sake, are you saying his name remains marred forever?”

Again, not sure what you are implying by this?

Jesus knew what his mission was for….he was originally sent to “none but the lost sheep of the house of Israel”…he was not sent to the Jewish leaders whom he condemned to “Gehenna” as they were “from their father the devil”….Jesus knew very well, by the illustrations he gave, exactly who were going to be saved and who were not.

God allowed the Jews not only to bring dishonor his name, but to lose it altogether in their speech. To this day they will not utter it….yet there was no command of God to cease pronouncing it with appropriate reverence. (Exodus 3:15)
But if you remember, the opening words of the Lord’s Prayer…..addressing “Our Father” Jesus said “hallowed by thy name” as a first priority…so no…..the coming of the Kingdom would remove any reproach brought on Yahweh’s name….for all time to come.

You said…
“Jesus is the high priest according to Melchizedek which is mercy triumph over judgment.”

Jesus’ connection to Melchizedek was the fact that he occupied the office of both King and Priest, which is something a Jew could never do, as they were to come from different tribes….this required soecial appointment by God.
Mercy will not yield to judgment, nor will judgment yield to mercy unless there are legitimate grounds to do so. Mercy is at God’s discretion….an unrepentant wrongdoer will have no such mercy.

You said…
“God himself shall come to tabernacle with his people in the end. All of the old shall pass away.”

Yes, so who are “God’s people”?
In Revelation 18:4-5 God’s “people” are told to “get out” of “Babylon the Great”….written at the end of the first century, about the future…..who are God’s people in this era and what is Babylon the great? There is urgency to this command….how do we obey it?

Those who accept Jesus as their Savior, do so on an individual basis, and it is their choice.
Those of the fleshly nation of Israel had to obey the law without choice. It was imposed on them by birth.
It was not something they chose to do, but what they were obligated to do, under penalty.
This created a legalistic bent to everything….nit picking ridiculous things…

As Jesus said…
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others. You blind guides, straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel!” (Matt 23:23-4 ESV)
Both creatures were unclean to Jews, but the illustration is clear…..they would strain out the gnat but gulp down a camel….what does that tell you about them…..? Have they changed?

Orthodox Jews still won’t press the button in an elevator as this is considered “work” on the Sabbath. To cater to this extreme, some elevators are programmed to stop at every floor, so that Jews don’t have to press a button and violate the Sabbath…

Also the light switches. Stay in darkness instead because they are not allowed to flip the switch.

Does that sound reasonable to you? Does God actually require these sorts of things? Seriously?

 

[JemimaJade]

Also the light switches. Stay in darkness instead because they are not allowed to flip the switch.

Can you imagine God dictating anything so ridiculous? As if his people have nothing better to do…

 

[God-fearing]

Let's start with the first.

You said ...repentance is the only way to forgiveness....tell that to the theif on the cross. The adultress, or when Jesus siad which is easier to do heal or forgive sin.
Jesus had all authority given to him from the father, it's not about what I or we did it's about what he did. The minute you put i in it you pervert the gospel. It is and always is about what he did. So you base your salvation on merit of repentance?
By grace you are saved through faith and that is not of yourselves. it's a gift of God. So no one can boast.

want to proceed?

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

they therefore, by their own disobedience, lost their place in his Kingdom arrangement.

I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew.

If you are looking to the literal land which Israel was once gifted, but abandoned, then you are looking at the wrong place and the wrong people. What status did Israel occupy when they failed to obey their God?
How harshly punished were they at those times? Is Israel in God’s good books today? Do those who occupy that land as Israelis, claim to be Jewish by religion? Is God fighting for them?

Yep! Israel is sitting on 1% of the land in the ME, surrounded by enemies on every side. You better believe God is fighting for them. Doesn't matter if you don't.

In times past when Israel was defending her territory, did they need the assistance from worldly nations to come to their aid, even when they were greatly outnumbered?
The biblical answer is NO! If God fought for Israel, no nation, no matter how powerful, could defeat them.

In the OT? We're not in the OT. Israel is the dry bones coming together. Don't worry about it, God knows what He's doing.

That land today is saturated with innocent blood…

Really and how do you figure that?

 

[God-fearing]

I had to read this through several times as I really don’t understand the application given them in this context…
I can only try to explain each one as I understand it…

You said…
“So the prayers and pleas of Jesus to forgive and the repeated statements of no man takes my life I lay it down for I have that power and also the power to pick it up again is null and void?”

Jesus taught us that forgiveness can only be granted on the basis of repentance….so not repentance means no forgiveness…have the Jews repented?
Not sure what Jesus words as “repeated statements” mean in context here….what was your point?
What was “null and void”?
The Scripture you referred to I believe, is John 10:17-18…

“For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father.” (ESV)

From whom does Jesus receive his authority? (Matt 28:18) Who resurrected Jesus…? (Acts 2:31-32)

You said…
“Isaiah 53 8 says it pleased the lord to bruise him. Also it was told before hand that Jesus would be rejected.
Pslams 22 is a clear picture of that rejection.”

Again I have no objection to any of that….so what is your point?

You said…
“Jesus rebukes Peter aka Satan when Peter protest against Jesus's fate.”

Actually Jesus rebuked Peter as he was doing to Jesus what Satan did to the woman in Eden. Trying to plant seeds of doubt about the mission he was about to undertake, knowing in advance that he would have to surrender his life…Peter was thinking like a human and not like God. (Matt 16:22-23)

You said…
“The duel ministry that Christ had and has as Jewish messiah and savior of the Gentiles will come to pass. Fulfilling all that was promised.
God siad he will do it for his name sake, are you saying his name remains marred forever?”

Again, not sure what you are implying by this?

Jesus knew what his mission was for….he was originally sent to “none but the lost sheep of the house of Israel”…he was not sent to the Jewish leaders whom he condemned to “Gehenna” as they were “from their father the devil”….Jesus knew very well, by the illustrations he gave, exactly who were going to be saved and who were not.

God allowed the Jews not only to bring dishonor his name, but to lose it altogether in their speech. To this day they will not utter it….yet there was no command of God to cease pronouncing it with appropriate reverence. (Exodus 3:15)
But if you remember, the opening words of the Lord’s Prayer…..addressing “Our Father” Jesus said “hallowed by thy name” as a first priority…so no…..the coming of the Kingdom would remove any reproach brought on Yahweh’s name….for all time to come.

You said…
“Jesus is the high priest according to Melchizedek which is mercy triumph over judgment.”

Jesus’ connection to Melchizedek was the fact that he occupied the office of both King and Priest, which is something a Jew could never do, as they were to come from different tribes….this required soecial appointment by God.
Mercy will not yield to judgment, nor will judgment yield to mercy unless there are legitimate grounds to do so. Mercy is at God’s discretion….an unrepentant wrongdoer will have no such mercy.

You said…
“God himself shall come to tabernacle with his people in the end. All of the old shall pass away.”

Yes, so who are “God’s people”?
In Revelation 18:4-5 God’s “people” are told to “get out” of “Babylon the Great”….written at the end of the first century, about the future…..who are God’s people in this era and what is Babylon the great? There is urgency to this command….how do we obey it?

Those who accept Jesus as their Savior, do so on an individual basis, and it is their choice.
Those of the fleshly nation of Israel had to obey the law without choice. It was imposed on them by birth.
It was not something they chose to do, but what they were obligated to do, under penalty.
This created a legalistic bent to everything….nit picking ridiculous things…

As Jesus said…
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others. You blind guides, straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel!” (Matt 23:23-4 ESV)
Both creatures were unclean to Jews, but the illustration is clear…..they would strain out the gnat but gulp down a camel….what does that tell you about them…..? Have they changed?

Orthodox Jews still won’t press the button in an elevator as this is considered “work” on the Sabbath. To cater to this extreme, some elevators are programmed to stop at every floor, so that Jews don’t have to press a button and violate the Sabbath…

Does that sound reasonable to you? Does God actually require these sorts of things? Seriously?

Let's start with the first.

You said ...repentance is the only way to forgiveness....tell that to the theif on the cross. The adultress, or when Jesus siad which is easier to do heal or forgive sin.
Jesus had all authority given to him from the father, it's not about what I or we did it's about what he did. The minute you put i in it you pervert the gospel. It is and always is about what he did. So you base your salvation on merit of repentance?
By grace you are saved through faith and that is not of yourselves. it's a gift of God. So no one can boast.

want to proceed?

 

[JemimaJade]

Let's start with the first.

You said ...repentance is the only way to forgiveness....tell that to the theif on the cross.

The thief, in a last minute change of heart, asked Jesus to remember him when he got into his Kingdom….
Jesus promised that he would be ‘with him in paradise’….

Most people misunderstand that encounter….the thief had a change of heart and was repentant. He even rebuked the other thief and said that they were getting what they deserved…he knew Jesus was innocent.

What did Jesus promise him? That he would be with him “in paradise”…not “heaven”.

Jews at that stage had no concept of going to heaven….the earthly paradise is the only one they knew from the garden of Eden….so, as the one who also promised the resurrection (even of the unrighteous), Jesus promised him a resurrection when the Kingdom ruled the earth. (John 5:28-29) That is when this man would see Jesus again….not “that day” but in the future….Jesus was in his tomb for three days before his own resurrection. Misplacement of the comma in that verse changes the whole meaning. Did you know that?

The adultress, or when Jesus siad which is easier to do heal or forgive sin.

As regards the adulteress, I seem to recall that Jesus said “go and sin no more”…(John 8:11) Jesus could read hearts and knew that she was not wicked…..more than likely just weak.

Matt 9:2-5 is the only one I can think of that uses that expression….and wasn’t it in response to a complaint about him being able to forgive sins…?

Jesus had all authority given to him from the father, it's not about what I or we did it's about what he did. The minute you put i in it you pervert the gospel. It is and always is about what he did. So you base your salvation on merit of repentance?

Jesus places salvation on the merit of repentance…please read Acts ch 3 and see what Peter said regarding the man he healed, and what he said to the Jews who witnessed that miracle.
Tell me what you read.

By grace you are saved through faith and that is not of yourselves. it's a gift of God. So no one can boast.

want to proceed?

Absolutely…as I can see that your knowledge of Scripture is quite limited, and based on theology, not the Bible….a discussion would be helpful, but I am not here to participate in useless arguments for the sake of them.
The Bible teaches one truth that has been twisted every which way by those who thought they knew better. We can express our personal view and the Scripture we believe supports it. I am not here to win, but to teach what I have learned to anyone who wishes to ask about anything biblical. (2 Tim 3:16-17)

OK…..Grace is not a license….it is a gift…undeserved. No one can earn it, but that doesn’t mean that we don’t have to qualify for it.
Life from the beginning came with terms and conditions…freedom of choice was a gift, but unlimited freedom would be a curse….that is the reason why we have laws….we have freedom within those laws but it’s not until you transgress the law that you feel the weight of it.

Over to you….

 

[Beekeeper]

Let's start with the first.

You said ...repentance is the only way to forgiveness....tell that to the theif on the cross. The adultress, or when Jesus siad which is easier to do heal or forgive sin.
Jesus had all authority given to him from the father, it's not about what I or we did it's about what he did. The minute you put i in it you pervert the gospel. It is and always is about what he did. So you base your salvation on merit of repentance?
By grace you are saved through faith and that is not of yourselves. it's a gift of God. So no one can boast.

want to proceed?

The thief and the adulteress are not good examples to establish a case for forgiveness without repentance from.

The thief believed in Jesus, therefore he repented of his unbelief.
He still died on the cross as a thief.

The adulteress was about to be punished for her sins.
Had she repented?
Jesus thought so.
"Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more." (John 8:11)
Apparently in the story she also repented for her unbelief.