Replacement theology? Yes or No.

[Genez]

There is going to be a New Heaven and a New Earth.

For what reason?

Israel's everlasting home will be the New Earth.
The Bride of Christ's home will be the New Heaven!

The Church....

In my Father’s house there are many dwelling places; but if not,
I would have told you, because I am going away to prepare a place
for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again
and receive you to myself, so that where I am, you may be also.

John 14:2-3

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I don't really know how else to say it because I highlighted the words that I'm zeroing in on and explained it. So in this instance, I'm going to use AI because maybe it can explain my point better.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
What I understand her argument to be is this:

The issue is not whether John the Baptist fulfilled an Elijah-type role. Scripture clearly says that he did. The issue is whether John the Baptist necessarily exhausted everything Malachi 4:5–6 was referring to.

There is a textual reason to question that.

In Matthew 17:10, the disciples ask Jesus why the scribes say Elijah must come first. Jesus answers in verse 11:

“Elijah truly shall first come, and restore all things.”

That statement is future in form.

Then in the very next verse Jesus says:

“But I say unto you, That Elias is come already…”

And Matthew explains that the disciples understood Him to be referring to John the Baptist.

So within the same conversation Jesus can speak of Elijah as both having already come in John and coming/restoring all things.

Luke 1:17 helps explain how John fulfills the Elijah role: John comes “in the spirit and power of Elias.” John therefore fulfills the Elijah pattern without literally being Elijah, which also explains why John can truthfully answer “I am not” when asked directly whether he is Elijah in John 1:21.

The other issue is Malachi's timing language. Malachi 4:5 does not merely say Elijah will come before the Messiah appears. It specifically says:

“Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD.”

That wording matters. The “Day of the LORD” throughout the prophets is strongly associated with divine judgment, and Malachi immediately follows the Elijah prophecy with the warning that God could strike the land with a curse.

Therefore, the argument is not simply, “I have decided this prophecy happens twice.” The argument is that Scripture itself gives reasons to distinguish between John's historical Elijah-role and the full scope of Malachi's prophecy.

This kind of layered fulfillment is also not foreign to Scripture. A prophecy can have an earlier historical realization without that exhausting everything the prophecy ultimately points toward.

The abomination of desolation is an example of that pattern. Daniel gives the prophecy, historical events partially resemble or fulfill that imagery, and yet Jesus later refers His own hearers back to Daniel and speaks of an abomination of desolation that they still needed to watch for. That means an earlier fulfillment does not automatically prevent later prophetic application.

So the real question is not, “Where does the Bible use the phrase dual fulfillment?” It doesn't need to use that theological label. The question is whether Scripture itself sometimes reapplies or extends an earlier prophecy into a later fulfillment. It clearly does.

And regarding the statement about the curse: she was not saying Elijah personally strikes the earth. Malachi plainly says God does that. Her point was that Elijah's assigned work is positioned immediately before that threatened judgment. If John completely exhausted the prophecy roughly two thousand years before the final Day-of-the-LORD setting being discussed, then the timing language becomes something that still has to be explained.

So I don't think her argument is that Scripture “doesn't mean what it says.” Her argument is actually based on taking all of the relevant statements seriously at once: John fulfilled an Elijah role, Jesus says Elijah had already come, Jesus also speaks of Elijah as coming and restoring all things, and Malachi places Elijah before the great and dreadful Day of the LORD.

Thanks for sharing some ai

 

[Pilgrimshope]

There is going to be a New Heaven and a New Earth.

For what reason?

Israel's everlasting home will be the New Earth.
The Bride of Christ's home will be the New Heaven!

The Church....

In my Father’s house there are many dwelling places; but if not,
I would have told you, because I am going away to prepare a place
for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again
and receive you to myself, so that where I am, you may be also.

John 14:2-3

“And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, and had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:…ot . And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. ”nt
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:9-10, 12, 14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Delvianna]

Thanks for sharing some ai

I hope its explanation clarified where I'm coming from. I'm very fact based in a lot of my explanations, and sometimes its hard for me to pivot into another way to explain what I mean. So I hope you didn't get offended by my use of it, just, figured maybe it would explain it in another way better than I could.

 

[Genez]

“And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, and had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:…ot . And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. ”nt
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:9-10, 12, 14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. ​

The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, ​

and the Lamb is its lamp. The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring ​

their splendor into it. On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there.​

Revelation 21:22-25


It still came down from Heaven....
To the earth.

And what does that mean?

There will still be people on the earth when that happens.
The Bride will be from Heaven.
Comes down and is stationed on earth to serve the people on earth.




. . . . .

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. ​

The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, ​

and the Lamb is its lamp. The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring ​

their splendor into it. On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there.​

Revelation 21:22-25


It still came down from Heaven....
To the earth.

And what does that mean?

There will still be people on the earth when that happens.
The Bride will be from Heaven.
Comes down and is stationed on earth to serve the people on earth.




. . . . .

“It still came down from Heaven....
To the earth.“

Yes sir that was my point . To the new earth like you were saying . If it comes down from heaven then ……..where is it until then ?

 

[cv5]

No you don't. 2Ti 2:18 has actually proven my point, that theresurrection is still in the future, any teaching that claims it's already happen has "strayed from the truth". It's scheduled in Rev. 20:1-5, post trib.

Those passages are unequivocal proof of the pre-trib rapture conclusively.

And not only do I know how and why with exacting precision, I also know perfect well the reasons that you DO NOT know.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

“It still came down from Heaven....
To the earth.“

Yes sir that was my point . To the new earth like you were saying . If it comes down from heaven then ……..where is it until then ?

“These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

…… But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:13, 16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Delvianna]

@HeIsHere
Why is that funny? I was being heart felt... Geeze...

 

[HeIsHere]

@HeIsHere
Why is that funny? I was being heart felt... Geeze...

Fair enough,I just thought you did not like the use of AI on here?

 

[Delvianna]

Fair enough,I just thought you did not like the use of AI on here?

I stated people using it and don't list it as AI and try and pass it off as their own writings. My frustration is conversing with an AI and not an actual person. But in this scenario, I stated I was using it so maybe they'd understand my point better since I couldn't figure out another way to explain it.

 

[cv5]

If you say things 100 times, you definitely convinced yourself.

But it is not the truth.

Enjoy yourself.

Did I mention that Acts 1, 2, 3 and 15 provide irrefutable conclusive testimony to the certain restoration of the Kingdom to Israel?

Indeed, there is no argument that can contravene or deny this eschatological reality.

I commend to you this critical study. And NO, cursory one liner replies are NOT in the least adequate. Rather, a few weekends of intense study is required to even so much as get your bearings.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

“These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

…… But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:13, 16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“but ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, and to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12:22-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬
“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:1-2‬ ‭

Paul names the heresy plainly: Hymenaeus and Philetus taught that the resurrection was already past, meaning they preached a realized eschatology that collapsed future bodily resurrection into a spiritualized, already‑happened event.
Didn't take a whole manuscript to glean that.

“Paul names the heresy plainly: Hymenaeus and Philetus taught that the resurrection was already past, meaning they preached a realized eschatology that collapsed future bodily resurrection into a spiritualized, already‑happened event.“

Paul makes clear ……our resurrection hasn’t happened yet but

“But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: it is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.

There is a natural body,

and there is a spiritual body.

As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:35-36, 40, 42, 44, 48-52‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Why would people need spiritual bodies when resurrected ? And why couldn’t flesh and blood inherit the kingdom ? Maybe “ they “ aren’t spiritualizing things but maybe Paul taught what he taught like the resurrection body is a spiritual body ?

 

[Beekeeper]

According to you, he came and went. So it cannot be me.

Actually it is John who started us all using the term "antichrist", so it matters more what he says about it than me.
All the references are in the chapters of 1John and 2John.
There are "antichrists", "antichrist", "an antichrist" and "the spirit of antichrist".
It seems that all who oppose the person and work of Christ are antichrist.
Funny to think that John wrote the book of Revelation and never once used that term in it.

So do you really think you are going to pre-trib rapture yourself by your theology?

 

[cv5]

Actually it is John who started us all using the term "antichrist", so it matters more what he says about it than me.
All the references are in the chapters of 1John and 2John.
There are "antichrists", "antichrist", "an antichrist" and "the spirit of antichrist".
It seems that all who oppose the person and work of Christ are antichrist.
Funny to think that John wrote the book of Revelation and never once used that term in it.

So do you really think you are going to pre-trib rapture yourself by your theology?

No, but by John's clearly described eschatology (not theology ROFL).

And that of Christ Jesus, Paul, and Peter.
BTW, Paul NEVER, not at any time, declared that he, or any other believer, would be going thru the 70th week tribulation.

BTW, the name of the book is Revelation. Not as you invariably say: Revelation"S".....

And it is perfect well understood by all legit scholars to have been written in the early 90's AD.

But as for YOU, by all means suffer in abject horror thru what is coming upon the world if that is what you desire.

And so it goes for the deniers of grace. They get what they ask for and the wages so earned.

Did I mention that the clock is rapidly ticking towards midnight? Eschatologically, this is the "darkness", the "night" of the tribulation judgements coming upon the WHOLE EARTH.

Of course these prescient keywords are meaningless to you. But don't think for a moment that others share your stygian ignorance.

Luk 21:35 - For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

 

[Genez]

“It still came down from Heaven....
To the earth.“

Yes sir that was my point . To the new earth like you were saying . If it comes down from heaven then ……..where is it until then ?

There are to be two new earths. Not just one.

First one?
The Millennium.

Then the earth will be transformed.
Animals will be transformed ... i.e - The lion will lie down with the Lamb.

In contrast....
The second new earth will take place after the Millennium is finished.
When the entire universe is put through a nuclear fusion melt down by God.
After that takes place...
God will then newly and freshly create the heavens and earth, not simply transformed like with the first new earth.

But the Day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens shall pass ​

away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat. The earth also ​

and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 2 Peter 3:10​

The word translated "elements" is a term found on the periodic table used in chemistry class.
"Elements" speaks of atomic elements.
For after the Millennium finishes?
This creation will be destroyed by God right down to the atomic level.

Nuclear fusion en masse!
BOOOOOOOOM!

This entire universe will be gone!

But the Day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens shall pass ​

away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat. The earth also ​

and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 2 Peter 3:10​

All gone! Everything!

Then we will shall finally see the everlasting new heavens and new earth, created by God anew!

Better book now with your travel agent!


......

 

[Genez]

Actually it is John who started us all using the term "antichrist", so it matters more what he says about it than me.
All the references are in the chapters of 1John and 2John.
There are "antichrists", "antichrist", "an antichrist" and "the spirit of antichrist".
It seems that all who oppose the person and work of Christ are antichrist.
Funny to think that John wrote the book of Revelation and never once used that term in it.

So do you really think you are going to pre-trib rapture yourself by your theology?

During the Tribulation there will be The Antichrist.

Today? Many.

Those who persist in teaching and promoting false doctrine are antichrists.

Keep in mind.
Jesus is called the Word of God.
Antichrists do what?
They distort Jesus Christ when they promote false doctrine.

John 1:1-2​

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. ​

He was with God in the beginning.​

​

John 1:14​

The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, ​

the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.​

​

​

. . .. .. ...​

 

[Komentaja]

Even the demons get triggered by the pre-tribulation rapture! Look around you guys, its all coming together in this world. Israel, the technology for the mark of the beast, the surveillance, the apostasy, the moral decay, the globalism, the LGBT-agenda.

We could be outta here ANY DAY now so be ready. For someone to not see its the end of the end of the end times, you must have no wisdom and discernment.. or eyes and ears.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

There are to be two new earths. Not just one.

First one?
The Millennium.

Then the earth will be transformed.
Animals will be transformed ... i.e - The lion will lie down with the Lamb.

In contrast....
The second new earth will take place after the Millennium is finished.
When the entire universe is put through a nuclear fusion melt down by God.
After that takes place...
God will then newly and freshly create the heavens and earth, not simply transformed like with the first new earth.

But the Day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens shall pass ​

away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat. The earth also ​

and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 2 Peter 3:10​

The word translated "elements" is a term found on the periodic table used in chemistry class.
"Elements" speaks of atomic elements.
For after the Millennium finishes?
This creation will be destroyed by God right down to the atomic level.

Nuclear fusion en masse!
BOOOOOOOOM!

This entire universe will be gone!

But the Day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens shall pass ​

away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat. The earth also ​

and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 2 Peter 3:10​

All gone! Everything!

Then we will shall finally see the everlasting new heavens and new earth, created by God anew!

Better book now with your travel agent!


......

There are to be two new earths. Not just one.…..

I didn’t get past this part I don’t think that’s accurate but no offense or anything you have the right to your thinking too

 

[Genez]

There are to be two new earths. Not just one.…..

I didn’t get past this part I don’t think that’s accurate but no offense or anything you have the right to your thinking too

Well? When is your version of the new earth to appear?
The Millennium?

Then what?