Research: Majority of Americans Believe Works Are the Key to Salvation

[Goliath]

Which commandments?

There are a few sets of commandments listed in the scripture.
The commandment given to Abraham.
The commandments given to Noah.
The commandments given to Moses.
The commandments given through the prophets.
The extended commandments from the law that Jesus gave.
The commandments Paul gave.
The two commandments John gave.
This is not an easy question to answer.

Actually it's a very easy answer.
Good works are those works which show your Love for God and for your neighbor.
Those commands or commandments, which God puts in our minds and writes on our hearts, those given to us through Gods Holy Spirit.

You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.
Exodus 20:5-6

 

[Goliath]

We need to be precise in how we understand the revelation of the Christ.
Which doctrine of salvation is correct?

1) Saved by the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and that is not from ourselves, faith first and works are secondary?

2) Saved by the merited grace of our Lord Jesus Christ because what you do matters. simply faith plus works?

John 3:18
The one who believes in Him is not judged; the one who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

You do live up to your name brother.
Jesus taught love...
Why?
Because in order for us to be saved...We must love.
And because we were born into sin...that's impossible, unless our hearts are changed, changed into a heart that can love.
And Brother, that's what our Good Works do...They change the heart!!
This is why you feel love for a stranger, and they feel love for you, after you tend to their needs.
Good works are kind of like an Antibiotic, an Antibiotic for sin. It kills that which lives in you so you can have a heart that can love, love God and love your neighbor.

 

[Inquisitor]

You do live up to your name brother.
Jesus taught love...
Why?
Because in order for us to be saved...We must love.
And because we were born into sin...that's impossible, unless our hearts are changed, changed into a heart that can love.
And Brother, that's what our Good Works do...They change the heart!!
This is why you feel love for a stranger, and they feel love for you, after you tend to their needs.
Good works are kind of like an Antibiotic, an Antibiotic for sin. It kills that which lives in you so you can have a heart that can love, love God and love your neighbor.

Silly me, thinking that love was a fruit from the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Galatians 5:22
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness.

 

[Inquisitor]

Actually it's a very easy answer.
Good works are those works which show your Love for God and for your neighbor.
Those commands or commandments, which God puts in our minds and writes on our hearts, those given to us through Gods Holy Spirit.

You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.
Exodus 20:5-6

I thought the law only granted the knowledge of sin?

I never knew that righteousness was derived by obedience to the law.

Are you sure that the law of Moses was written on our hearts, or is it the law of Christ written on our hearts?

I am fairly certain that the entire Old Testament was a shadow of the Christ.

So I am confident that the Old Covenant law is not written on our hearts.

 

[Rosemaryx]

The little children only covers one stage of the Christian walk. Below are the other two. Notice the Young Men have overcome the evil one.
I am writing to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning. I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one.
(1 John 2:13)

Many doctrines teach the Christian they are born again when they believe, or when they receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, or by other means. Which is not true...How can someone who sins, say they have overcome the evil one..when they still sin? That's like a cigarette smoker, who smokes 2 packs a day, saying he has overcome his addiction to smoking, by only smoking 1 pack a day.
Would You call them an overcomer?

These Scriptures are about maturity...
Fathers are mature Christians , who are aware very much of Satan's tactics , and are overcomers ...Children are those who are growing in the faith , and little children are those new to the faith...
We as Christians from our new birth grow in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ , and each step of our walk , we sin less and less , so no one is sinless until the good Lord calls us home...

How does a person think they do not sin in thought , word or deed is beyond me...
They are lying to God y thinking such a thing , and our deceiving themselves...

 

[Rosemaryx]

Do you believe everyone who sins...is a slave of sin?

Those who practice , habitually are slaves to sin...
But we who are born again do not practice , make a habit of doing what we did before our new birth...
We sin less and less Amen...
We are being Sanctified daily by the beautiful Holy Spirit...

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Yup...overwhelming evidence!!

amen it’s contrasted on about every other page of the Bible were well warned ahead of time so we’re without excuse when the day comes that we shall appear before him to give account of every word we’ve spoken and every deed we have done

 

[Goliath]

Silly me, thinking that love was a fruit from the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Galatians 5:22
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness.

Where did I say it wasn't?

 

[Goliath]

I thought the law only granted the knowledge of sin?

I never knew that righteousness was derived by obedience to the law.
Are you sure that the law of Moses was written on our hearts, or is it the law of Christ written on our hearts?
I am fairly certain that the entire Old Testament was a shadow of the Christ.
So I am confident that the Old Covenant law is not written on our hearts.

I posted (Exodus 20:5-6) not to show the Law of Moses is written on our hearts, but as a comparative to what Jesus taught in (John 14: 15)....“If you love me, keep my commands.
Two commandments are given in the New Testament. One of which,...is to love God. And according to God...How... do we love God? It's by keeping his commandments, in both Old and New Testament. Yet people will still say...But we are not under the Law.
If this is true, How can you love God, when you must keep his commandments to love God?

Again...When Paul taught we are not under the Law, he was saying simply....we are not under the Old Covenant Law of Moses, a covenant that required circumcision. We are however under the New Covenant Law of Christ.
Whats the difference between Law of Moses and the Law of Christ?
The Law of Moses did not change the heart of the sinner.
That is why I was angry with that generation; I said, ‘Their hearts are always going astray, and they have not known my ways.’
Hebrews 3:10
The Law of Christ, does!!
How?
Everything commandment given to those under the Law of Christ....is about Love. Love of God or Love of your neighbor.
Where do you get these commandments?
They are written on our hearts, and through continued persistence...in keeping these commandments, your heart will be changed. Which is what Paul taught in (Romans 2:7)
....To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

 

[Goliath]

These Scriptures are about maturity...
Fathers are mature Christians , who are aware very much of Satan's tactics , and are overcomers ...Children are those who are growing in the faith , and little children are those new to the faith...
We as Christians from our new birth grow in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ , and each step of our walk , we sin less and less , so no one is sinless until the good Lord calls us home...

How does a person think they do not sin in thought , word or deed is beyond me...
They are lying to God y thinking such a thing , and our deceiving themselves...

These Scriptures are about maturity...
Fathers are mature Christians , who are aware very much of Satan's tactics , and are overcomers ...Children are those who are growing in the faith , and little children are those new to the faith...
We as Christians from our new birth grow in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ , and each step of our walk , we sin less and less , so no one is sinless until the good Lord calls us home...

How does a person think they do not sin in thought , word or deed is beyond me...
They are lying to God y thinking such a thing , and our deceiving themselves...

Okay

 

[Goliath]

Those who practice , habitually are slaves to sin...
But we who are born again do not practice , make a habit of doing what we did before our new birth...
We sin less and less Amen...
We are being Sanctified daily by the beautiful Holy Spirit...

How many times can you sin before it's considered a Habit?
And where can we find this number in the bible?

 

[Rosemaryx]

How many times can you sin before it's considered a Habit?
And where can we find this number in the bible?

When one is not fighting against the sin , but keeps walking in it , that is habitual sin...
It took me the first 3 yrs of my Salvation to break my addiction to alcohol...Every time I drank , my heart was broken some before God , I had Godly sorrow , not worldly sorrow...
I hated the sin of drunkenness , but I noticed as I looked back , I was drinking less and less...
Now praising God , I am four years sober coming up , so I do not know the number , for it is different for each person who is walking with our Lord...
But by God's grace , I have overcome...

 

[Inquisitor]

Where did I say it wasn't?

This is how you explained the origin of love.

And because we were born into sin...that's impossible, unless our hearts are changed, changed into a heart that can love.
And Brother, that's what our Good Works do...They change the heart!!

Obviously, works are not the origin of love.

 

[Inquisitor]

I posted (Exodus 20:5-6) not to show the Law of Moses is written on our hearts, but as a comparative to what Jesus taught in (John 14: 15)....“If you love me, keep my commands.
Two commandments are given in the New Testament. One of which,...is to love God. And according to God...How... do we love God? It's by keeping his commandments, in both Old and New Testament. Yet people will still say...But we are not under the Law.
If this is true, How can you love God, when you must keep his commandments to love God?

Again...When Paul taught we are not under the Law, he was saying simply....we are not under the Old Covenant Law of Moses, a covenant that required circumcision. We are however under the New Covenant Law of Christ.
Whats the difference between Law of Moses and the Law of Christ?
The Law of Moses did not change the heart of the sinner.
That is why I was angry with that generation; I said, ‘Their hearts are always going astray, and they have not known my ways.’
Hebrews 3:10
The Law of Christ, does!!
How?
Everything commandment given to those under the Law of Christ....is about Love. Love of God or Love of your neighbor.
Where do you get these commandments?
They are written on our hearts, and through continued persistence...in keeping these commandments, your heart will be changed. Which is what Paul taught in (Romans 2:7)
....To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

If there are only two commandments then why does Paul give the Corinthians, the Lord's commandments?

1 Corinthians 14:37
If anyone thinks that he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you, are the Lord’s commandment.

 

[Inquisitor]

How many times can you sin before it's considered a Habit?
And where can we find this number in the bible?

Every time you keep committing the same sin, over and over again, then that is habitual sin. If you look hard enough you may discover your own set of habitual sins.

The world is full to the brim of addicted people. Most people are addicted to gluttony, sugar, alcohol, drugs, fat, salt, laziness, fast food. Social media, you tube, pornography, tv, music, sport, social life. make no mistake, they are all addictions.

You name it, most people are addicted to it.

It is not too difficult to see the sin below the surface in these addictions.

I wonder how many Christians have addictions?

 

[Goliath]

amen it’s contrasted on about every other page of the Bible were well warned ahead of time so we’re without excuse when the day comes that we shall appear before him to give account of every word we’ve spoken and every deed we have done

The simple fact is...,many folks they have made Paul the Author of their Salvation. They completely bypass the Gospel of Jesus Christ and head straight for Paul's epistles. The Gospel of Christ is only used for Christian holidays, like Christmas and Easter. I remember back, when I was a kid, being dragged to church every Sunday. The pastor did teach in the Gospel, but only those parts for which he could create an entertaining story.

It was never used as a guide to salvation. Those teachings always came from Pauls epistles. And they never gave instruction on what one must do....to be saved, but what we must do,...after they are saved. Paul taught...What one must do after they are saved, not what one must do to be saved. I believe this is what causes so much confusion among Christians. They believe they are saved, but don't know they were saved, so they can not instruct others what they must do to be saved. So they took the entire Gospel of Christ and condensed it all down....to (John 3:16)

Just believe, and you are saved..no works involved there!! But then again, if they were saved because they believe, didn't they save themselves? I mean,....if they weren't saved before they believed, but they were saved after they believed...they saved themselves by believing.

 

[Goliath]

If there are only two commandments then why does Paul give the Corinthians, the Lord's commandments?

1 Corinthians 14:37
If anyone thinks that he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you, are the Lord’s commandment.

Man...you do have some great questions!!
Be honest..you drove your teachers crazy in school didn't you? lol

As I recently stated...the two commandments Jesus gave were as the Author of Salvation. Paul was not the author of salvation, and these commandments were not about salvation.

 

[Goliath]

Every time you keep committing the same sin, over and over again, then that is habitual sin. If you look hard enough you may discover your own set of habitual sins.

The world is full to the brim of addicted people. Most people are addicted to gluttony, sugar, alcohol, drugs, fat, salt, laziness, fast food. Social media, you tube, pornography, tv, music, sport, social life. make no mistake, they are all addictions.

You name it, most people are addicted to it.

It is not too difficult to see the sin below the surface in these addictions.

I wonder how many Christians have addictions?

Exactly...and for that reason (1 John 3:9-10) can be spun into whatever folks want it to say, only if they do, they will get trapped in that web. Every Christian I have ever met, who has been given the gift of the Holy Spirit, can not deny that they have a sin in their life, that they try as hard as they can not to commit, yet do, over and over and over. That sin, all by itself, proves they are a slave of sin, for if they were free, they wouldn't do what they did not want to do. God has given them a sign..and they pretend it's not there.

And yes, I did, past tense, have a addiction to sin which lasted for about 20 years. But for the last 20+ years not only have I not committed that sin. Its not as if Satan doesn't still try to tempt me, but his temptation is not really much of a temptation. It's like trying to temp a child with a cookie, when the Childs family owns the company that makes the cookie.

 

[crossnote]

They are written on our hearts, and through continued persistence...in keeping these commandments, your heart will be changed. Which is what Paul taught in (Romans 2:7)
....To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

No, that’s not what Paul taught in Rom 2:7.
Take chapters one, two and three as a whole and you will see that Paul was making the case that ‘no one does good’, all have sinned (both Jew and Gentile) and have fallen short of God’s glory, thus ALL need the salvation provided freely in His Son.
Please read and reread those chapters carefully.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Goliath said:
They are written on our hearts, and through continued persistence...in keeping these commandments, your heart will be changed. Which is what Paul taught in (Romans 2:7)
....To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

No, that’s not what Paul taught in Rom 2:7.
Take chapters one, two and three as a whole and you will see that Paul was making the case that ‘no one does good’, all have sinned (both Jew and Gentile) and have fallen short of God’s glory, thus ALL need the salvation provided freely in His Son.
Please read and reread those chapters carefully.

Exactly right!!

In fact, Paul used v.7 to show that only perfect people would earn eternal life, but, as you noted, from ch 1-3, he proves that there is no one who is perfect. And Rom 3:20 desstroys any idea that anyone can earn eternal life.