Research: Majority of Americans Believe Works Are the Key to Salvation

[posthuman]

For centuries, Christians have understood from Scripture the Biblical distinction between the Mosaic Law and the Moral Law.

insomuch that righteousness is righteousness apart from the letter of law; righteousness existed before the law and exists after the law.
as it is written, the law is not made for the righteous, but the unrighteous - tacitly implying that righteousness exists wholly separately from the law, even with no law.

it is not that 'we are only dead to some of the law' -- dead is dead; if we died with Him, we died to the whole law: because whoever breaks the least commandment is guilty of all the law ((the law is not divided)) but whoever has died is no longer under the the law.
no, it is not that some of the law binds us and some does not. if He has made us free, we are truly free -- else we are not free at all.
it is that righteousness does not come from the law, but antecedes it, and supersedes it.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Is the following law, a moral commandment or a ceremonial law?

Exodus 21:16
Now one who kidnaps someone, whether he sells him or he is found in his possession, shall certainly be put to death.

Moral: falls under "thou shalt love thy neighbor".

 

[Runningman]

​

A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; ​

as I have loved you, that you also love one another.​

(John 13:34) ​

Curious how that commandment applies to Gentiles in your opinion. Jesus had a ministry directed almost entirely toward Jews and then only occasionally ministered to gentiles if they begged enough or displayed enough faith, but He didn’t seem to go out of His way to help them. I mean, that’s just what I see from reading the gospels.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Alright, my bad, I'm sorry, man. Forgot my manners. I just lost patience very quickly when you keep repeating the same thing. Once is a post, twice is a reminder, three times it's lecturing.

No, EVERY time is to try to get your attention. Because you just keep ignoring the verses and won't engage with them.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Well I was actually looking for a verse....not Subjective reasoning.

God wrote with His own finger we are to keep the Sabbath, and there's nothing in the NT discounting that...what you characterize as "subjective" is actually ancillary evidence, albeit unnecessary, to an already firmly established Biblical precedent of resting and gathering once a week on Sabbath. The only ambiguity that exists about this matter is in the mind of those who are unwilling to do the will of God.

 

[Phoneman-777]

​

A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; ​

as I have loved you, that you also love one another.​

(John 13:34) ​

If you love God, you'll keep the Sabbath day holy, as well as not break any of the other first three...if you love your neighbor, you'll keep the last six.

Those who do not love God or their neighbor seek out ways to avoid doing the Two Commandments.

 

[Magenta]

If you refuse to answer a simple question, just say so. There is no need to play the victim.

There is no need for you to lie and make things up. Why do you do it?

I am pointing out your false accusations to open your eyes to the fact you do not keep the commandments.

You are self deceived if you believe you do.

 

[Magenta]

I guess where we disagree on Grace is, I believe God the favor is done out of Love.

Who has said otherwise? Or is this another of your erroneous assumptions? It is starting to look like a pattern with you.

 

[Phoneman-777]

insomuch that righteousness is righteousness apart from the letter of law; righteousness existed before the law and exists after the law.
as it is written, the law is not made for the righteous, but the unrighteous - tacitly implying that righteousness exists wholly separately from the law, even with no law.

it is not that 'we are only dead to some of the law' -- dead is dead; if we died with Him, we died to the whole law: because whoever breaks the least commandment is guilty of all the law ((the law is not divided)) but whoever has died is no longer under the the law.
no, it is not that some of the law binds us and some does not. if He has made us free, we are truly free -- else we are not free at all.
it is that righteousness does not come from the law, but antecedes it, and supersedes it.

He that doeth righteousness is righteous and not the hearers of the law, but the doers, are righteous.

What is there left to say about those who actively war against the doing of the law if only the doers of it are righteous?

Suffice it to say: doing the law is only possible if Jesus is on the throne of the heart doing it for us, and those who refuse to do the law, seek to erase our obligation to it, stigmatize it, and criticize those who strive to do it, demonstrate that they themselves - not Jesus - occupy that throne.

 

[Magenta]

So in other words…unmerited Love?

Romans 5:8

 

[posthuman]

Curious how that commandment applies to Gentiles in your opinion. Jesus had a ministry directed almost entirely toward Jews and then only occasionally ministered to gentiles if they begged enough or displayed enough faith, but He didn’t seem to go out of His way to help them. I mean, that’s just what I see from reading the gospels.

well if we read 1 John, which was undoubtedly written to believers that were in some large proportion gentile, it appears that this new commandment applies both to the Jew and the non-Jew alike, without distinction.
a second witness is Paul in Romans 13 & ((famously)) 1 Corinthians 13 -- also written to primarily gentile believers -- while 1 John is a clear link to the new commandment to love as Christ loved, even though Paul doesn't spell out the citation he clearly views love as a command, and when he speaks of love, it is the love Christ demonstrated that he speaks of.

so it applies to all who believe the gospel, IMO.

 

[Phoneman-777]

 

[Magenta]

Jesus and I both do....Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”
(John 14:21)

Why does Jesus say, in this passage, that God the Father loves us?
You see...I asked my question in the other post, to open your eyes.
Jesus used questions for the same application.

Jesus never said:

we are saved when we believe we can save ourselves.

Why do you erroneously assume things and then make false accusations?

I am asking with the hope it open your eyes to your sinful nature.

Jesus used questions for the same application

 

[posthuman]

He that doeth righteousness is righteous and not the hearers of the law, but the doers, are righteous.

What is there left to say about those who actively war against the doing of the law if only the doers of it are righteous?

Suffice it to say: doing the law is only possible if Jesus is on the throne of the heart doing it for us, and those who refuse to do the law, seek to erase our obligation to it, stigmatize it, and criticize those who strive to do it, demonstrate that they themselves - not Jesus - occupy that throne.

no one is justified by the doing of the law.
the just live by faith

 

[Phoneman-777]

no one is justified by the doing of the law.

"Not the hearers of the law, BUT THE DOERS, shall be justified in His sight". - NT

(BTW, you are correct, no one is justified by it, which means it is not the MEANS to justificiation, but the EVIDENCE of justification).

Those who lack the doing also lack the evidence.

 

[posthuman]

"Not the hearers of the law, BUT THE DOERS, shall be justified in His sight". - NT

do you really still need to be taught the first principles of the gospel?

Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
(Galatians 2:16)

But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident:
for, the just shall live by faith.
(Galatians 3:11)
​

 

[Phoneman-777]

do you really still need to be taught the first principles of the gospel?

​

Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.​

(Galatians 2:16)​

​

But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: ​

for, the just shall live by faith. ​

(Galatians 3:11) ​

​

Do you after all these years still sip the milk of the Word?

Revelation 22:14 KJV
[14] Blessed are they which DO HIS COMMANDMENTS that they may have right to the tree of life and may enter into the gate to the city.

James 2:18 KJV
[18] Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

 

[posthuman]

"Not the hearers of the law, BUT THE DOERS, shall be justified in His sight". - NT

you realize that is from Romans 2, right?
where Paul makes the argument that no one is justified by the law, nor can anyone be, therefore God's righteousness is by faith -- culminating in the answer to this, our salvation, in Romans 6-8 where he explains that whoever has been found in Christ has died to the law, is no longer under it, cannot be judged by it, and is by no means beholden to it?
that this is the gospel of our salvation?

and this reinforces the point i made earlier this morning: we are set free from the law, made a new creation in Christ for works of righteousness He sets before us. that very righteousness is therefore separate from the law. the law is a shadow of it made for the unrighteous to condemn sin in them. righteousness exists outside of the law; the law is for the unrighteous.

look at circumcision: a physical command presaging the law, superseding physical sabbath observance because a child is circumcised even on a sabbath; that 8th day is greater than the 7th. yet God does not require of us circumcision with human hands/works. physical circumcision is worthless - but this worthless thing is greater than physical sabbath observance!
the circumcision that avails is the circumcision by God's hand, of the heart. likewise the rest that we enter is a spiritual rest: a real rest.


have you really not yet understood?

 

[Magenta]

no one is justified by the doing of the law.
the just live by faith

Romans 1:16-17

 

[posthuman]

the milk

​

​

God's definition of milk happens to be your private definition of meat:

Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to maturity, ​

not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God​

(Hebrews 6:1)​