Research: Majority of Americans Believe Works Are the Key to Salvation

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
13
Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away.
Believe for a while
Mean it is posible believe than lost his believe ... lost salvation because to be save one have to believe

Read this verse again

Don't be ignore Jesus word and believe man made teaching
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
4,637
1,461
113
Truth refuting false doctrine isn't "nonsense".
THINKING you are refuting truth. and telling someone NONSENSE. is not christ like.

Show some humility man..

Correct. And John 5:24 SAYS plainly that believers POSSESS (has) eternal life.
It says THEY BELIEVED

it does not say, THEY HAD FAITH which only comes through REPENTANCE>

Many people believe but have never met christ personally in salvation.

Well, I suggest you have a chat with the apostle John then. He used that word "believe" about 100 times in his gospel, all of which were about getting saved.
I suggest you learn the difference between saving faith and mental agreement. Both are translated as belief

OK, let's think about this for a sec. In 2:19, what exactly were the demons believing? Do you know? Did you check the verse before citing it?

James 2:19 - You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

So, what's the subject here? Monotheism, or "God is One". The demons believe that. You know why they do? Because they EXPERIENCED His Trinity. That's why.

Do you think that believing that "God is One" is how to be saved??


Irrelevant.


There is no comparison between demons and humans.
so your saying James is telling us that those who CLAIM to have faith only believe there is one god (monotheism)? so when he said you believe you do well. that was his context??

talk about interpretation something to fit your belief

you missed the point altogether about what James was saying

OK, then I know that you don't understand or simply don't believe John 5:24, that believers possess eternal life, and John 10:28, where Jesus said that recipients of eternal life shall never perish.

I guess we have nothing to discuss here. I believe what Jesus said. You obviously don't.
lol. Twist and turn like you always do

THEY PRODUCED NO FRUIT..

why? BECAUSE THEY NEVER HAD CHRIST OR THE SEAL OF THE HS

you wanna call God a liar. feel free. count me out

once again, the belief mentioned by Jesus and John is more than mental agreement. it is true saving faith.. which only comes through repentance.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
4,637
1,461
113
Believe for a while
Mean it is posible believe than lost his believe ... lost salvation because to be save one have to believe

Read this verse again

Don't be ignore Jesus word and believe man made teaching
we can't lose salvation period

eternal life is eternal.

we do not just stop believing and become an unbeliever (antichrist) thats impossible
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
Believe for a while
Mean it is posible believe than lost his believe ...
Why do you keep asking this irrelevant question. IF IF IF you did believe what Jesus said in John 5:24 and 10:28, you would already have your answer.

lost salvation because to be save one have to believe
Here is what you keep missing. When one DOES believe, they POSSESS eternal life, per John 5:24. Either you DO believe that or you DON'T believe that.

So, those have believed STILL POSSESS eternal life. And they shall never perish, per John 10:28. IF IF IF you did believe what Jesus said you would not be asking your questions.

Read this verse again

Don't be ignore Jesus word and believe man made teaching
Man-made? Well, of course Jesus is fully human. But He is also fully God. So, please believe what He said.

Until you find any verse that plainly says that eternal life can be lost, by any reason, you would have a point.

But since you don't have such a verse, you therefore don't have a point.
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
THINKING you are refuting truth. and telling someone NONSENSE. is not christ like.
Let me make this as clear as I can. I BELIEVE what Jesus said about those who will NEVER PERISH. Unlike those who believe OSNAS (once saved, not always saved).

Show some humility man..
For those who believe what the Bible doesn't teach, I will call out. Don't you remember what Paul told Titus?

Titus 1-
11 They must be silenced, because they are disrupting whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach—and that for the sake of dishonest gain.
12 One of Crete’s own prophets has said it: “Cretans are always liars, evil brutes, lazy gluttons.”[c]
13 This saying is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, so that they will be sound in the faith

This is what I do. I'm following Paul's advise to Titus, regarding those who teach false doctrine.

It says THEY BELIEVED

it does not say, THEY HAD FAITH which only comes through REPENTANCE>
You can play with words all you want. John used "pisteuo" 100 times in his gospel to teach how to be saved.

And remember Paul's answer to the jailer's question of HOW to be saved: "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you WILL BE saved."

Many people believe but have never met christ personally in salvation.
Well, it always depends on WHAT they "believe". Wouldn't you agree?

I suggest you learn the difference between saving faith and mental agreement. Both are translated as belief
I'm always talking about the Greek word, which means to trust. Trust me on this. ;)

so your saying James is telling us that those who CLAIM to have faith only believe there is one god (monotheism)? so when he said you believe you do well. that was his context??
The context is directly IN v.19. Didn't you read it? It is rather dangerous to quote or cite verses when you aren't sure of the context.

talk about interpretation something to fit your belief
I'm tired of this. Here is the verse. It's easy enough for children to grasp.

2:19 - You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

The red words are all the same thing. So it is about monotheism that the demons believe.

you missed the point altogether about what James was saying
Ha. Coming from one who didn't even know the context for v.19.

THEY PRODUCED NO FRUIT..
Apparently you think producing fruit is what saves then.

why? BECAUSE THEY NEVER HAD CHRIST OR THE SEAL OF THE HS
Thank you for citing one of my favorite verses!!!!!

Eph 1:13 - And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

Red words refer to the believer's being sealed IN Christ.
Green words refer to HOW a person is sealed IN Christ.
Blue words again refer to the sealing. Believers are sealed with the Holy Spirit. He lives in the believer.

you wanna call God a liar. feel free. count me out
OH, no. I'd never call God a liar. But you, SURE, when you preach FALSE DOCTRINES. All false doctrines are LIES from Satan.

once again, the belief mentioned by Jesus and John is more than mental agreement. it is true saving faith.. which only comes through repentance.
You don't know or understand what you are talking about.

Tell me what Paul's answer was to a jailer's question of what he MUST DO to be saved.

Hint: Acts 16:30-31

Do a bit of research.
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
we can't lose salvation period
Correct.

eternal life is eternal.
Correct.

we do not just stop believing and become an unbeliever (antichrist) thats impossible
Jesus gave a parable about those who "believe for a while" and then "fall away".

You may want to read your Bible a bit more.

However, ceasing to believe, though very offensive, does not result in loss of salvation. It will result in lots of trouble for the one who does cease to believe. They will be miserable under God's discipline, which is painful (Heb 12:11).

Here are 2 verses for you to contemplate about who will be condemned.

John 3:18 - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

2 Thess 2:12 - and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

Since neither verse gives any kind of time limit on 'have not believed", it absolutely does mean "have NEVER believed".

So, it is ONLY those who have not believed (have NEVER believed) who will be condemned.

Think about that.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
This is according to Jesus not man made teaching
Matt 13:7
And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:”

22The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful. 2
Hmm
Sprung up
Mean start believe and the torn choked the new faith
Was believe than die or stop believe
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
4,637
1,461
113
Let me make this as clear as I can. I BELIEVE what Jesus said about those who will NEVER PERISH. Unlike those who believe OSNAS (once saved, not always saved).
Yet you believe that people can have mental agreement (believe) and fall away as they were actually saved?

For those who believe what the Bible doesn't teach, I will call out. Don't you remember what Paul told Titus?

Titus 1-
11 They must be silenced, because they are disrupting whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach—and that for the sake of dishonest gain.
12 One of Crete’s own prophets has said it: “Cretans are always liars, evil brutes, lazy gluttons.”[c]
13 This saying is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, so that they will be sound in the faith

This is what I do. I'm following Paul's advise to Titus, regarding those who teach false doctrine.
well then consider this me calling you out for false teaching..

Now where are we? Two people who are proud and think they know it all..

or we can discuss what the word says with humility

can you change?

You can play with words all you want. John used "pisteuo" 100 times in his gospel to teach how to be saved.

And remember Paul's answer to the jailer's question of HOW to be saved: "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you WILL BE saved."
they believed for awhile.. why?

their faith was not pure., they never TRUSTED in what they heard. They did as james spoke of. They claimed to have faith. but their faith was not real. that's why they produced no fruit (had no works)


Well, it always depends on WHAT they "believe". Wouldn't you agree?
I believe that is our discussion

I'm always talking about the Greek word, which means to trust. Trust me on this. ;)
you mean the same greek word in James?

trust or are assured of..

do you think the people who onlybelieved for awhile really trusted or were assured of what they say they trusted in? If so. why did they leave so quick? do you lose faith quickly in people who do not let you down?

The context is directly IN v.19. Didn't you read it? It is rather dangerous to quote or cite verses when you aren't sure of the context.


I'm tired of this. Here is the verse. It's easy enough for children to grasp.

2:19 - You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

The red words are all the same thing. So it is about monotheism that the demons believe.


Ha. Coming from one who didn't even know the context for v.19.
The context is THEY CLAIM TO HAVE FAITH

they BELIEVE IN ONE GOD. nothing there speaks monotheism,, God is one, as apposed to the pegan gods in which there is many.

come on man,

Apparently you think producing fruit is what saves then.
lol.

Being saved PRODUCES FRUIT

apearantly you believe one can be saved and never do any work..

you believe a licentious person can be saved??

Thank you for citing one of my favorite verses!!!!!

Eph 1:13 - And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

Red words refer to the believer's being sealed IN Christ.
Green words refer to HOW a person is sealed IN Christ.
Blue words again refer to the sealing. Believers are sealed with the Holy Spirit. He lives in the believer.
One must be a TRUE BELIEVER FIRST.

OH, no. I'd never call God a liar. But you, SURE, when you preach FALSE DOCTRINES. All false doctrines are LIES from Satan.


You don't know or understand what you are talking about.

Tell me what Paul's answer was to a jailer's question of what he MUST DO to be saved.

Hint: Acts 16:30-31

Do a bit of research.
face it my friend. NO ONE WILL EVER TRULY BELIEVE unless they FIRST REPENT.

You may have mental agreement,, It does not mean you have saving faith.

I may believe God can save me, It does not mean I have faith he will
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
4,637
1,461
113
Correct.


Correct.


Jesus gave a parable about those who "believe for a while" and then "fall away".

You may want to read your Bible a bit more.

However, ceasing to believe, though very offensive, does not result in loss of salvation. It will result in lots of trouble for the one who does cease to believe. They will be miserable under God's discipline, which is painful (Heb 12:11).

Here are 2 verses for you to contemplate about who will be condemned.

John 3:18 - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

2 Thess 2:12 - and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

Since neither verse gives any kind of time limit on 'have not believed", it absolutely does mean "have NEVER believed".

So, it is ONLY those who have not believed (have NEVER believed) who will be condemned.

Think about that.
THEY WERE NOT SAVED

IF THEY WHERE SAVED THEY WOULD HAVE PRODUCED THE FRUITS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS.

MANY PEOPLE BELIEVE FOR AWHILE THEN WALK AWAY DENYING THEY EVER BELIEVED.

THEY WERE NEVER SAVED. JOHN MAKES THIS CLEAR.
 
Nov 26, 2021
1,125
544
113
India
The Book of Revelation is a great antidote for the most absurd idea I have ever heard: that we can believe in Jesus for a few seconds, then apostatize into Atheism or even Satanism, and yet somehow still go to Heaven. No, "without faith it is impossible to please God" (Heb 11:6). No one will be in Heaven who does not please God, therefore no one will be in Heaven who died in unbelief. This is basic Gospel.

Rev 2:10: "Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life."

Rev 2:11: “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.”

Rev 2:26: “And he who overcomes and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations"
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
4,637
1,461
113
That according to you not according to Jesus
Jesus said I give them eternal life and they shall never perish. and no one (invcluding outselves) can pluck us out of Gods hands

Jesus said whoever believed will never die but live forever (john 3), never die, never hunger or thirst. Will live forever, will be raised on the last day. (john 6)

he said out of their hearts will flow rivers of living water flowing to eternal life (john 4)

I think you need to read Jesus words more my friend
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
4,637
1,461
113
This is according to Jesus not man made teaching
Matt 13:7
And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:”

22The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful. 2
Hmm
Sprung up
Mean start believe and the torn choked the new faith
Was believe than die or stop believe
once again, only one of that group showed the fruits of salvation, that was the last one

the rest were different reactions to the gospel.. I have witnessed all of them..
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
Jesus said I give them eternal life and they shall never perish. and no one (invcluding outselves) can pluck us out of Gods hands

Jesus said whoever believed will never die but live forever (john 3), never die, never hunger or thirst. Will live forever, will be raised on the last day. (john 6)

he said out of their hearts will flow rivers of living water flowing to eternal life (john 4)

I think you need to read Jesus words more my friend
Yep if you do john 16:3 and Matt 24:13

If you have faith and endure it to the end you will never perish
 
Nov 26, 2021
1,125
544
113
India
Food for thought: https://www.christianchallengeminis..._Eternal_Security_Is_Not_a_Biblical_Doctrine/

"Why Eternal Security Is Not a Biblical Doctrine
By Philip A. Matthews
Eternal Security is the doctrine that simply states, "Once saved, always saved (OSAS). This doctrine teaches that once a person has been born again by trusting in Jesus as his personal Savior, i.e., "saved, he can never be eternally lost, i.e., go to hell after his life has ended, no matter how far that person may backslide or live and die in unconfessed sin after his initial belief in Christ. Eternal security claims that one act of faith in Christ at some time in a person's life guarantees heaven for them forevermore.
So, according to this doctrine, there is no way for a saved person to backslide and be lost. There is no way for you to "lose your salvation. There is no way to "fall from grace. There is no such thing as "losing out or "going back on God, with the consequence being that a person who was once saved goes to hell. There is no such thing as "apostasy. Once you are saved, you are "preserved. This is known in Calvinism as the "preservation of the saints. Sometimes it is referred to as "assurance in Christ.
God's Promises Are Conditional
In commenting on this doctrine, it should first be noted that the promises of God are all conditional. That is, God's promised benefits are given to people as they meet the conditions stated or implied within that promise. In other words, God's promises have strings attached. He does not make blanket promises that apply to everybody in every place for every time. His promises are for specific people who meet specific conditions and qualifications for the specific benefits promised.
Take John 3:16 for example. The promise is that "whosoever believes in Him (Jesus) should not perish but have everlasting life. There is a condition here that must be met before you can receive everlasting life: You must first believe in Jesus. If (which specifies a condition) you believe in Him, then you will not perish and you will have everlasting life. But if you do not believe in Him, then you will not have everlasting life and you will perish.
Let's take another example, Galatians 6:9: "And let us not be weary in well doing; for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not. The condition that must be met, before the promise to reap can be fulfilled, is that we must not faint. So if we faint, then it follows that we shall not reap.
But it also follows that if we have reaped, then it must be true that we did not faint. Otherwise, if we reaped and yet we did faint, then it must be true that we will reap whether we faint or not. This makes the conditional statement absolutely useless and the verse nonsensical: we shall reap if do not faint and we shall reap if we do faint. No matter what we do, we shall reap. But if this be the case, then Paul's warning against fainting is meaningless and utter nonsense. Why encourage people not to faint when in actuality it does not matter if they do or they don't.
But what is the point here? The point is that, every conditional statement in the Bible”implied or direct”is what is called a "tautology. That is, it is true both ways”forward and backward. Thus, it is true that "if we do not faint, then we shall reap. And it is also true that if we do faint, then we will not reap. It is also true that if we have reaped, then we must not have fainted, as well as, if we did not reap, then we must have fainted. In logic, these statements condense into this: "We shall reap if and only if we do not faint.
The Bible Is Logically Valid

Thus, the conditional, "if-then-type statements of the Bible are tautological. If they are not, then many contradictions, untruths, and nonsensical statements result. This principle of logic must be used throughout the New Testament regarding all conditional statements and promises. The "If always means "If and Only If. If it does not, then the conditional statement becomes unconditional, thus stripping the statement of all sense and meaning.

Let's take one more example, one much more directly applicable to the issue at hand, eternal security. Second Peter 1:10-11 (NIV) reads: "Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager ["diligent KJV] to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Exactly what things is Peter telling them to do? Obviously, he means the things he listed in verses 5 through 9: "Add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; and to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; and to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity [love]. These are the "things they are to add. Then in verse 8 he states that if "these things be in you and abound, you will not be unfruitful. In verse 9, he warns that if you "lack these things, you are blind, cannot see afar off, and have forgotten that you were purged from your sins. Finally in verse 10, he says that "if you do these things, you will never fall¦and receive a rich welcome¦
Now this "if is an "if and only if. The promise is that you will never fall and you will receive a rich welcome if and only if "you do these things. This rules out the possibility that you will never fall and you will receive a rich welcome without doing "these things. It must be true that if you do not do these things, then you will fall. If you do not do these things, then you will not receive a rich welcome. If it were possible for them to not do these things and still receive a rich welcome, then it makes no sense to warn them about it at all.
Applied to eternal security, this principle thus completely rules out the possibility of somebody getting saved, then going back out into sin and failing to do "these things, but still they never "fall and still they "receive a rich welcome into heaven. Anybody who gets saved, then fails to grow in grace, instead choosing to revert back to his old sinful lifestyle, has definitely fallen and will not be welcomed into heaven. If they make it to heaven anyway, living their sinful unrepentant lifestyle, then 2 Peter 1:10-11”and most of the rest of the New Testament”is a sham and a mockery.
There are many other such scriptures to which this principle of "if and only if applies. Revelation 2:10 promises, "Be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. This must mean, "I will give you a crown of life if and only if you are faithful until death. If you are not faithful until death”if you quit believing, if you quit doing the Lord's will, quit obeying and following His word”then it is pretty obvious that I will not give you a crown of life. If you could get this crown of life without being faithful until death, then it would not make sense for Jesus to hold this out as some kind of reward for faithfulness and good behavior.
In Revelation 3:1-5, Jesus speaks of some Christians and a church that has been spiritually alive (saved) but are "about to die (NIV). He states why: "I have not found your deeds complete in the sight of My God. However, He finds that a few Christians there have not "soiled or "defiled their garments, i.e., do not have sin in their lives. These He promises will "walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy. Then He promises: "He that overcomes [i.e., maintains their deeds and lives of holiness] will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before My Father and His angels. So He promises to do three things”dress them in white, not blot out their names, and acknowledge them before God”if and only if they will overcome. What if they do not overcome? Then it logically follows that He will not dress them in white, He will blot out their names from the book of life, and He will not acknowledge knowing them before His Father. The promise is to overcomers only. What could be more plain and logical?
There is one more of these conditional statements found in Hebrews 3:14 (KJV): "For we are partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast unto the end. In other words, we are partakers in Christ if and only "if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first (NIV). Obviously, if we do not hold that first confidence, we will not be partakers in Christ. The promise is not just to everybody, but only to those who hold to their first confidence. Paul was writing to some Christians that were being sorely tested and persecuted, and were tempted to give up. Those who let go of their faith in Christ would lose their participation and fellowship with Him. This concept Paul repeated in chapter 10:32-39. He warned those Christians not to be of "those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who believe and are saved."
 
Nov 26, 2021
1,125
544
113
India
Rev 3, KJV:

"3 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.

2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.

3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.

5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
4,637
1,461
113
Yep if you do john 16:3 and Matt 24:13

If you have faith and endure it to the end you will never perish
salvation is not of you my friend.

if it is up to you. you can't endure till the end.

Jesus did not say in john 3 whoever believed and endures to the end

stop looking inside yourself to save you and start looking to God
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
you can't endure till the end.
Than you lost your salvation friend becaus Jesus say he who endure to the and will be save
We don't have the right to make the law salvation not according to you friend it is according to Jesus rule
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
Jesus did not say in john 3 whoever believed and endures to the end
Jesus say john 3:16
And Jesus say Matt 24:13

In other word Jesus say whosoever believe will be save
And who endure/keep his believe to the end will be save

In conclusion
Whosoever believe to the end will be save
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
4,637
1,461
113
Than you lost your salvation friend becaus Jesus say he who endure to the and will be save
We don't have the right to make the law salvation not according to you friend it is according to Jesus rule
my friend, He was talking about the tribulation period. and about those who will make it to the end..

Not eternal salvation.

Why are you trying to save yourself. why do you not trust God?