Research: Majority of Americans Believe Works Are the Key to Salvation

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Let's not play games here. Deal with what I said. .

Did you miss the part where I dealt with your habit of selecting only verses which support your conclusions

Bingo!! You are admitting that there ARE verses that support eternal security.

and ignore verses which shed additional light on the issue which forces the abandonment of said conclusion and consideration of another conclusion?

OH, I see. You apparently believe that the Bible speaks out of BOTH sides of its mouth then. What a bunch of hooey.

There is no "additional light" that changes what other verses support. If you believe that, you are mightily deceived.

With your line of "reasoning", one could basically argue ANY position and use the Bible all along.

That's just the biggest bag of hooey I've ever heard.

The FACT that I DO have verses that support eternal security PROVES that it IS biblical. So that means all the verses that you think "sheds more light" on the issue means you think the Bible speaks with a forked tongue.

 

[Jackson123]

None of this addresses what I posted. Why? And your first sentence doesn't make sense.

You only read a verse that say when you believe save
You ignore Matt 24:13

 

[Jackson123]

Interesting. You acknowledge the verse is about ALL Scripture, yet you continue to reject specific teachings of Jesus regarding eternal security. Why do you do that? That is hypocrisy.

Will hypocrites go to heaven?

This accusation should apply to yourself you twist Matt 24:13

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
None of this addresses what I posted. Why? And your first sentence doesn't make sense.

You only read a verse that say when you believe save

Allow me to clarify for you. I share verses that SAY what I believe. If you so strongly disagree with what John 10:28 means, then please explain what Jesus WAS saying then. That's how to have a discussion.

You ignore Matt 24:13

In fact, I explained it.

What YOU cannot do is explain how Matt 24:15 doesn't conflict with the very clear words of John 10:28.

Or, if you can, then WHY haven't you done that yet?

Prove to me that Jesus didn't teach eternal security in John 10:28.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Interesting. You acknowledge the verse is about ALL Scripture, yet you continue to reject specific teachings of Jesus regarding eternal security. Why do you do that? That is hypocrisy.

Will hypocrites go to heaven?

This accusation should apply to yourself you twist Matt 24:13

I am just stunned that you cannot see how YOUR "twisted" view of Matt 24:13 CONFLICTS directly with what Jesus said in John 10:28.

So, apparently, you just ignore what He taught, beccause it doesn't align with YOUR view of Matt 24:13.

That's called "cherry-picking". Ignore what you DON'T WANT TO FACE.

Well, I've given YOU a logical explanation of Matt 24:13 and you have NOT given me a logical explanation of John 10:28 that shows that Jesus never taught eternal security.

And you didn't answer my question that directly aligns with your own theology. Why won't you apply your own theology to your own behavior?

You flat-out reject the clear teaching of eternal security in John 10:28. That is hypocritical.

Based on your own theology, such believers CANNOT go to heaven.

Do don't believe that a saved person COULD reject anything Jesus taught. Well, that's exactly what you ARE doing. Right now.

I suggest you get on your knees and confess that sin of disbelief in what Jesus taught in John 10:28. Get right with God. The sooner the better.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

I just looked at 13 different versions and 11 said 'in Christ'
one said 'by the faithfulness of Christ' (NET)
one said 'by the faith of Christ' (KJV) (even NKJV said 'faith in Christ'.)

I suppose it can be argued both are true... We are justified by faith in the faithfulness of Christ.

I see the greater confusion coming from man's tendency to add himself into the mix, so he gets some glory rather than ascribe ALL glory to God. (our little deity doesn't die easily).

I agree with your comments. All of the versions of the bible that have inserted the "in" instead of the word "of" takes away God's glory and gives the glory to mankind. I believe that we should always give all glory to God, even for our eternal deliverance.

 

[crossnote]

I agree with your comments. All of the versions of the bible that have inserted the "in" instead of the word "of" takes away God's glory and gives the glory to mankind. I believe that we should always give all glory to God, even for our eternal deliverance.

I too believe all glory should go to God, but I see very little difference between ‘in’ and ‘of’.
What difference do you see?

 

[Jackson123]

Allow me to clarify for you. I share verses that SAY what I believe. If you so strongly disagree with what John 10:28 means, then please explain what Jesus WAS saying then. That's how to have a discussion.

Like I say I agree Jesus will secure our salvation but He set a rule
1. Must believe
2. Not only believe 1 minute then deny, but must endure to the end

If you violate one or both don't bother to expect eternal security.

 

[Jackson123]

Pancakes ingredient

A.1 cup flour
B, 1 egg
C. 1 spoon backing soda
D. 1 cup water

But to make it fast I will make my own ingredient
This is my new pancakes ingredient

I cup water

Nothing else, my new ingredient only 1 cup water and I am free to call it pancakes

 

[Rosemaryx]

Jesus is the Author ( Beginner ) and Finisher ( End ) of our faith...
Hebrew 12:2

“And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.” “In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory” (Philippians 1:6; Ephesians 1:13-14).

 

[FreeGrace2]

Like I say I agree Jesus will secure our salvation but He set a rule
1. Must believe
2. Not only believe 1 minute then deny, but must endure to the end

If you CANNOT show me Jesus' "rule" IN the Bible, then you are LYING about what Jesus "set".

If you violate one or both don't bother to expect eternal security.

I reject your opinion. I fully accept what Jesus said.

And John 10:28 has NO RULES for recipients of eternal life. Once given the gift, the recipient shall never perish. But you reject that clear teaching.

You are blatantly ADDING to Scripture.

Stop it.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Pancakes ingredient

A.1 cup flour
B, 1 egg
C. 1 spoon backing soda
D. 1 cup water

But to make it fast I will make my own ingredient
This is my new pancakes ingredient

I cup water

Nothing else, my new ingredient only 1 cup water and I am free to call it pancakes

You are just proving that you are totally confused about a whole lot of things.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

I too believe all glory should go to God, but I see very little difference between ‘in’ and ‘of’.
What difference do you see?

Re-read my post # 1546. I reveal the difference it makes.

 

[crossnote]

Re-read my post # 1546. I reveal the difference it makes.

That’s the post I quoted in full. I guess I should have been more specific and asked ‘what proof do you have that ‘of’ takes away glory from God and ‘in’ gives glory to man?’

 

[posthuman]

I too believe all glory should go to God, but I see very little difference between ‘in’ and ‘of’.
What difference do you see?

If I have faith in Christ it is because I know He is faithful.
Isn't this identical to saying I put my trust in the faith ((i.e. faithfulness)) of Christ?

 

[Magenta]

I too believe all glory should go to God, but I see very little difference between ‘in’ and ‘of’.
What difference do you see?

Have not been following this line of conversation, but just to respond in a general
way to this question you pose: We are in the the world but not of the world.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

That’s the post I quoted in full. I guess I should have been more specific and asked ‘what proof do you have that ‘of’ takes away glory from God and ‘in’ gives glory to man?’

Faith OFF Jesus means that it is Jesus's faith and has nothing to do with mankind's faith. The rest of verse 16 explains Man's faith (a gift of the Holy Spirit) reveals unto him that it is not man's faith that justifies himself, but it is Jesus's faith that has justified mankind.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

If I have faith in Christ it is because I know He is faithful.
Isn't this identical to saying I put my trust in the faith ((i.e. faithfulness)) of Christ?

I think you have the understanding of it. You understand that it is Jesus's faith that justifies us and not our faith that justifies us. Therefore by changing the OF to In would tend to say that it is man's faith that justifies himself instead of Jesus' faith.

 

[crossnote]

If I have faith in Christ it is because I know He is faithful.
Isn't this identical to saying I put my trust in the faith ((i.e. faithfulness)) of Christ?

Yes, I believe I mentioned that in post #1494.

 

[crossnote]

Faith OFF Jesus means that it is Jesus's faith and has nothing to do with mankind's faith. The rest of verse 16 explains Man's faith (a gift of the Holy Spirit) reveals unto him that it is not man's faith that justifies himself, but it is Jesus's faith that has justified mankind.

Two things...
1 Where in Scripture does it say 'faith off'?
2. If it is the faith of Jesus that justifies, and God is not willing that any should perish, why aren't all people saved?