Does anyone know why the church has been telling me for years that the white horseman is the anti-Christ?
It just doesn't look like it to me!
It just doesn't look like it to me!
Rev 6:1&2 The white horseman,
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Rev 6:2 And I looked, and behold, a white horse. He who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer. NKJV
“A white horse,” there is another part of revelation that mentions a white horse;
Revelation 19:11-16, “11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He Who sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. And He had a Name written that no man knew, but He Himself. And He was wrapped in a tallit dipped in blood, and the Name of Him is called: Yahshua--The Salvation of Yahweh. And the armies in heaven clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him upon white horses, And out of His mouth goes a sharp, two-edged sword, that with it He should strike the nations; and He will rule over them with a rod of iron; and He treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty Yahweh. And He has on His tallit and on His banner a name written: KING OF KINGS AND RULER OF RULERS.”
Because of this many people think that this “white horse” from Revelation 6:2 is Yahshua. There is a number of similarities; white horse, crown and conquering. But let us slow down a bit and consider another possibility. This first one who sat upon a white horse had a bow, which represents power, but there is no mention of him actually being the Messiah or being “faithful and true” as the real Messiah is described. The Messiah’s return is not until after all the seals, trumpets and vials. Also it is the Messiah Himself who opens all seven seals, which include all four “horseman.” No this first “white horse” is not the Messiah, it is an impostor, portraying himself to be holy. Remember all the seals, trumpets and vials are judgments, plagues, evil powers or things of this nature and only after they have all been loosed will the Messiah return. So who could this impostor be?
1 John 2:18, “Little children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Anti-Messiah will come, even now there are many Anti-Messiahs; by this we know that this is the last hour.”
An anti-Messiah is one who is against the Messiah, against what He stands for and what He teaches. But remember this “white horse” is trying to act like the real Messiah. A counterfeit messiah-impostor who acts holy but in reality is not. First, is there anyone on earth who claims to be in the place of the Messiah? Second, are their acts holy?
John/Yahanan 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. So there will be one flock, one Shepherd (4166 – poimén)."
The Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume XV, 1912 (Lat. Vicarius Christi) Vicar of Christ
“A title of the pope implying his supreme and universal primacy, both of honour and of jurisdiction, over the Church of Christ. It is founded on the words of the Divine Shepherd to St. Peter: "Feed my lambs. . . . Feed my sheep" (John 21:16-17), by which He constituted the Prince of the Apostles guardian of His entire flock in His own place, thus making him His Vicar and fulfilling the promise made in Matthew 16:18-19.In the course of the ages other vicarial designations have been used for the pope, as Vicar of St. Peter and even Vicar of the Apostolic See (Pope Gelasius, I, Ep. vi), but the title Vicar of Christ is more expressive of his supreme headship of the Church on earth, which he bears in virtue of the commission of Christ and with vicarial power derived from Him. Thus, Innocent III appeals for his power to remove bishops to the fact that he is Vicar of Christ (cap. "Inter corporalia", 2, "De trans. ep."). He also declares that Christ has given such power only to His Vicar Peter and his successors (cap. "Quanto", 3, ibid.), and states that it is the Roman Pontiff who is "the successor of Peter and the Vicar of Jesus Christ" (cap. "Licet", 4, ibid.). The title Vicar of God used for the pope by Nicholas III (c. "Fundamenta ejus", 17, "De elect.", in 6) is employed as an equivalent for Vicar of Christ.”
Matthew 23:9, “And call no man your father (G3962 patér) on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.”
Catholic Dictionary 1910 (Greek: papas, form of pappas, father) Pope
“Title of the Supreme Head of the Church founded by Christ...”
“He is entitled Vicar of Christ, Head of the Church, Father of all the Faithful, Supreme or Sovereign Pontiff, His Holiness, Servant of the Servants of God, the Fisherman, after the calling of the Apostles and their designation by Christ as fishers of men. He wears the tiara, or triple crown. He ranks as first of Christian princes, and his ambassadors have precedence over other members of the diplomatic body. The office of the pope brings him into contact with civil rulers and legislatures insomuch as they may regulate temporal affairs affecting religion...”
Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume XII 911 Pope
(Ecclesiastical Latin papa from Greek papas, a variant of pappas father, in classical Latin pappas -- Juvenal, "Satires" 6:633).The title pope, once used with far greater latitude (see below, section V), is at present employed solely to denote the Bishop of Rome, who, in virtue of his position as successor of St. Peter, is the chief pastor of the whole Church, the Vicar of Christ upon earth. Besides the bishopric of the Roman Diocese, certain other dignities are held by the pope as well as the supreme and universal pastorate: he is Archbishop of the Roman Province, Primate of Italy and the adjacent islands, and sole Patriarch of the Western Church. The Church's doctrine as to the pope was authoritatively declared in the Vatican Council in the Constitution "Pastor Aeternus". The four chapters of that Constitution deal respectively with the office of Supreme Head conferred on St. Peter, the perpetuity of this office in the person of the Roman pontiff, the pope's jurisdiction over the faithful, and his supreme authority to define in all questions of faith and morals. This last point has been sufficiently discussed in the article INFALLIBILITY, and will be only incidentally touched on here.The present article is divided as follows: I. Institution of a Supreme Head by Christ II. Primacy of the Roman See III. Nature and Extent of the Papal Power IV. Jurisdictional Rights and Prerogatives of the Pope V. Primacy of Honour: Titles and Insignia I. INSTITUTION OF A SUPREME HEAD BY CHRIST.”
“A white horse,” there is another part of revelation that mentions a white horse;
Revelation 19:11-16, “11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He Who sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. And He had a Name written that no man knew, but He Himself. And He was wrapped in a tallit dipped in blood, and the Name of Him is called: Yahshua--The Salvation of Yahweh. And the armies in heaven clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him upon white horses, And out of His mouth goes a sharp, two-edged sword, that with it He should strike the nations; and He will rule over them with a rod of iron; and He treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty Yahweh. And He has on His tallit and on His banner a name written: KING OF KINGS AND RULER OF RULERS.”
Because of this many people think that this “white horse” from Revelation 6:2 is Yahshua. There is a number of similarities; white horse, crown and conquering. But let us slow down a bit and consider another possibility. This first one who sat upon a white horse had a bow, which represents power, but there is no mention of him actually being the Messiah or being “faithful and true” as the real Messiah is described. The Messiah’s return is not until after all the seals, trumpets and vials. Also it is the Messiah Himself who opens all seven seals, which include all four “horseman.” No this first “white horse” is not the Messiah, it is an impostor, portraying himself to be holy. Remember all the seals, trumpets and vials are judgments, plagues, evil powers or things of this nature and only after they have all been loosed will the Messiah return. So who could this impostor be?
1 John 2:18, “Little children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Anti-Messiah will come, even now there are many Anti-Messiahs; by this we know that this is the last hour.”
An anti-Messiah is one who is against the Messiah, against what He stands for and what He teaches. But remember this “white horse” is trying to act like the real Messiah. A counterfeit messiah-impostor who acts holy but in reality is not. First, is there anyone on earth who claims to be in the place of the Messiah? Second, are their acts holy?
John/Yahanan 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. So there will be one flock, one Shepherd (4166 – poimén)."
The Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume XV, 1912 (Lat. Vicarius Christi) Vicar of Christ
“A title of the pope implying his supreme and universal primacy, both of honour and of jurisdiction, over the Church of Christ. It is founded on the words of the Divine Shepherd to St. Peter: "Feed my lambs. . . . Feed my sheep" (John 21:16-17), by which He constituted the Prince of the Apostles guardian of His entire flock in His own place, thus making him His Vicar and fulfilling the promise made in Matthew 16:18-19.In the course of the ages other vicarial designations have been used for the pope, as Vicar of St. Peter and even Vicar of the Apostolic See (Pope Gelasius, I, Ep. vi), but the title Vicar of Christ is more expressive of his supreme headship of the Church on earth, which he bears in virtue of the commission of Christ and with vicarial power derived from Him. Thus, Innocent III appeals for his power to remove bishops to the fact that he is Vicar of Christ (cap. "Inter corporalia", 2, "De trans. ep."). He also declares that Christ has given such power only to His Vicar Peter and his successors (cap. "Quanto", 3, ibid.), and states that it is the Roman Pontiff who is "the successor of Peter and the Vicar of Jesus Christ" (cap. "Licet", 4, ibid.). The title Vicar of God used for the pope by Nicholas III (c. "Fundamenta ejus", 17, "De elect.", in 6) is employed as an equivalent for Vicar of Christ.”
Matthew 23:9, “And call no man your father (G3962 patér) on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.”
Catholic Dictionary 1910 (Greek: papas, form of pappas, father) Pope
“Title of the Supreme Head of the Church founded by Christ...”
“He is entitled Vicar of Christ, Head of the Church, Father of all the Faithful, Supreme or Sovereign Pontiff, His Holiness, Servant of the Servants of God, the Fisherman, after the calling of the Apostles and their designation by Christ as fishers of men. He wears the tiara, or triple crown. He ranks as first of Christian princes, and his ambassadors have precedence over other members of the diplomatic body. The office of the pope brings him into contact with civil rulers and legislatures insomuch as they may regulate temporal affairs affecting religion...”
Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume XII 911 Pope
(Ecclesiastical Latin papa from Greek papas, a variant of pappas father, in classical Latin pappas -- Juvenal, "Satires" 6:633).The title pope, once used with far greater latitude (see below, section V), is at present employed solely to denote the Bishop of Rome, who, in virtue of his position as successor of St. Peter, is the chief pastor of the whole Church, the Vicar of Christ upon earth. Besides the bishopric of the Roman Diocese, certain other dignities are held by the pope as well as the supreme and universal pastorate: he is Archbishop of the Roman Province, Primate of Italy and the adjacent islands, and sole Patriarch of the Western Church. The Church's doctrine as to the pope was authoritatively declared in the Vatican Council in the Constitution "Pastor Aeternus". The four chapters of that Constitution deal respectively with the office of Supreme Head conferred on St. Peter, the perpetuity of this office in the person of the Roman pontiff, the pope's jurisdiction over the faithful, and his supreme authority to define in all questions of faith and morals. This last point has been sufficiently discussed in the article INFALLIBILITY, and will be only incidentally touched on here.The present article is divided as follows: I. Institution of a Supreme Head by Christ II. Primacy of the Roman See III. Nature and Extent of the Papal Power IV. Jurisdictional Rights and Prerogatives of the Pope V. Primacy of Honour: Titles and Insignia I. INSTITUTION OF A SUPREME HEAD BY CHRIST.”
Wow, impressive response!
can you think of any other place in the bible where an evil person or Satan or any individual other than the Lord is announced with thunder? and did you look back to the original word for bow in the Greek? its only used once in the bible.
can you think of any other place in the bible where an evil person or Satan or any individual other than the Lord is announced with thunder? and did you look back to the original word for bow in the Greek? its only used once in the bible.
The word "bow" is word #G
G5115 τόξον toxon (to'-xon) n.
a bow (apparently as the simplest fabric).
[from the base of G5088]
KJV: bow
Root(s): G5088
thunder is word #G
G1027 βροντή bronte (ɓron-tee') n.
thunder.
[akin to bremo “to roar”]
KJV: thunder(-ing)
You would have to expound on what you are saying concerning this.
About the thunder... Im not sure off the top of my head, but this comes to mind, it's lightning not thunder:
Luke 10:18 And He said to them, “I saw Satan falling out of the heaven as lightning."
G796 ἀστραπή astrape (a-stra-pee') n.
1. lightning.
2. (by analogy) glare.
[from G797]
KJV: lightning, bright shining
Root(s): G797
I miss spoke here,
my mistake, before the vials not after...
correction:
The Messiah’s return is not until after all the seals and trumpets, at the 7th Trump to be exact (Rev 11:15), this alone is proof that it can not be the same “white horse.”
my mistake, before the vials not after...
correction:
The Messiah’s return is not until after all the seals and trumpets, at the 7th Trump to be exact (Rev 11:15), this alone is proof that it can not be the same “white horse.”
Most people interpret the first five seals as being opened in the future after the rise of the Antichrist. But a comparison of the Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24) with the first five seals shows that they represent all the events until the Tribulation and the Great Tribulation, and have been in evidence since the first century.
So what does this white horseman represent? Here's the answer:
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many... (false Messiahs)
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
From the time of Christ there have been many false Messiahs and false prophets, including the following (from Wikipedia):
- Simon bar Kokhba (died c. 135), founded a short-lived Jewish state before being defeated in theSecond Jewish-Roman War.
- Moses of Crete, who in about 440–470 persuaded the Jews of Crete to walk into the sea, as Moses had done, to return to Israel. The results were disastrous and he soon disappeared.
- Ishak ben Ya'kub Obadiah Abu 'Isa al-Isfahani (684–705), who led a revolt in Persia against the Umayyad Caliph 'Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan.
- David Alroy, born in Kurdistan, who around 1160 agitated against the caliph before being assassinated.
- Moses Botarel of Cisneros, active around 1413; claimed to be a sorcerer able to combine the names of God.
- Asher Lämmlein, a German near Venice who proclaimed himself a forerunner of the Messiah in 1502.
- David Reubeni (1490–1541?) and Solomon Molcho (1500–1532), messianic adventurers who travelled in Portugal, Italy and Turkey; Molcho, who was a baptised Catholic, was tried by the Inquisition, convicted of apostasy and burned at the stake.
- Sabbatai Zevi (1626–1676), an Ottoman Jew who claimed to be the Messiah, but then converted to Islam; still has followers today in the Dönmeh.
- Jacob Querido (?–1690), claimed to be the new incarnation of Sabbatai; later converted to Islam and led the Dönmeh.
- Miguel Cardoso (1630–1706), another successor of Sabbatai who claimed to be the "Messiah ben Ephraim".
- Löbele Prossnitz (?–1750), attained some following amongst former followers of Sabbatai, calling himself the "Messiah ben Joseph".
- Jacob Joseph Frank (1726–1791), who claimed to be the reincarnation of King David and preached a synthesis of Christianity and Judaism.
- Menachem Mendel Schneerson (1902–1994), whose followers claim that he is the Jewish messiah.
I would agree these are false messiah;s and therefore anti-Messiah, however I don;t see any "vicars of Christ" on there, those who claim the title of "head of the church on earth" Do you not consider the Popes to be anti-Messiah?
I understand the church has a prescription that we are supposed to be following,
I'm just asking some basic questions about the wording of the text in Rev 6.
I personally think that the white horseman has to be the anti-Christ so we can continue down the path of interpretation that we have determined to be correct. If it isn't the anti-Christ it messes everything up!
I'm just asking some basic questions about the wording of the text in Rev 6.
I personally think that the white horseman has to be the anti-Christ so we can continue down the path of interpretation that we have determined to be correct. If it isn't the anti-Christ it messes everything up!
I think it is the office of the anti-Messiah, as fulfilled by the RCC/Popes
1 John 2:18, “Little children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Anti-Messiah will come, even now there are many Anti-Messiahs; by this we know that this is the last hour.”
"anti-Messiah" is word #G500. antichristos
Strong's Concordance
antichristos: antichrist, (one who opposes Christ)
Original Word: ἀντίχριστος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: antichristos
Phonetic Spelling: (an-tee'-khris-tos)
Short Definition: antichrist
Definition: antichrist, either one who puts himself in the place of, or the enemy (opponent) of the Messiah.
It is my belief that satan has inspired many to try to be this, from nimrod to the long list of false messiah's to the latest Pope, some with more effectiveness than others... I particularly think that "the" anti-Messiah will arise from the RCC or some kind of off shoot or power transfer from them. As I 100% believe the RCC is the harlot that rides the beast...
1 John 2:18, “Little children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Anti-Messiah will come, even now there are many Anti-Messiahs; by this we know that this is the last hour.”
"anti-Messiah" is word #G500. antichristos
Strong's Concordance
antichristos: antichrist, (one who opposes Christ)
Original Word: ἀντίχριστος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: antichristos
Phonetic Spelling: (an-tee'-khris-tos)
Short Definition: antichrist
Definition: antichrist, either one who puts himself in the place of, or the enemy (opponent) of the Messiah.
It is my belief that satan has inspired many to try to be this, from nimrod to the long list of false messiah's to the latest Pope, some with more effectiveness than others... I particularly think that "the" anti-Messiah will arise from the RCC or some kind of off shoot or power transfer from them. As I 100% believe the RCC is the harlot that rides the beast...
Yeah this really woke me up... who are the harlots? They can only be those who follow the false teachings of the harlot...
Jeremiah 51:7-8,7 Baḇel was a golden cup in the hand of יהוה, making drunk all the earth. The nations drank her wine, that is why the nations went mad! Baḇel shall suddenly fall and be broken. Howl for her! Take balm for her pain – if so be, she might be healed."
I agree on the RCC but I disagree on the 7 ecclesias of Rev 2&3 because some of them ar doing Babylon (mystery) is a vile adulterous religion...
Personally I read Isaiah 4 different but what you say is worth consideration...
Isaiah 4:1-6,
1 And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, “We shall eat our own food and wear our own clothes; only let us be called by your name, to take away our reproach.”
2 In that day the Branch of יהוה shall be splendid and esteemed. And the fruit of the earth shall be excellent and comely for the escaped onesa of Yisra’ĕl. ( Joel 2:32 “And it shall be that everyone who calls on the Name of יהוה shall be delivered.b For on Mount Tsiyon and in Yerushalayim there shall be an escapec as יהוה has said, and among the survivors whom יהוה calls.)
" the Branch of יהוה" being Messiah and "excellent and comely for the escaped onesa of Yisra’ĕl." is a good thing, the harlot and her daughters get devoured by fire, as they are the chaff shown below not the wheat shown here.
3 And it shall be that he who is left in Tsiyon and he who remains in Yerushalayim is called set-apart, everyone who is written among the living in Yerushalayim."
4 When יהוה has washed away the filth of the daughters of Tsiyon, and rinsed away the blood of Yerushalayim from her midst, by the spirit of judgment and by the spirit of burning,"
Isaiah 24:1-6, "See, יהוה is making the earth empty and making it waste, and shall overturn its surface, and shall scatter abroad its inhabitants. …..., because they have transgressed the Torah, changed the law, broken the everlasting covenant. 6 Therefore a curse shall consume the earth, and those who dwell in it be punished. Therefore the inhabitants of the earth shall be burned, and few men shall be left.”
5 then יהוה shall create above every dwelling place of Mount Tsiyon, and above her gatherings, a cloud and smoke by day and the shining of a flaming fire by night, for over all the esteem shall be a covering,"
6 and a booth for shade in the daytime from the heat, for a place of refuge, and for a shelter from storm and rain."
Just my take on it...
Would it make a difference if I could show you that Satan thinks there is something to it?
In the 70s the Eagles recorded a song call (peaceful easy feeling), listen to the words again if you are not familiar with it already and look for the spiritual meaning and not the physical that doesn't really make any sense
In the 70s the Eagles recorded a song call (peaceful easy feeling), listen to the words again if you are not familiar with it already and look for the spiritual meaning and not the physical that doesn't really make any sense
I trust in Scripture, authenticaed Scripture of proven prophets of YHWH, that have undergone and passed the tests of Deuteronomy and of Yahshua... I would not form a doctrine based off lyrics from a song.
Notice that the horseman has a bow but it doesn't mention arrows.
Then see Ezek 5:16-17, 17. See that it is similar to the 4 horsemen. In Ezekiel the arrows are evil arrows of famine. Not literal arrows and not literal famine necessarily, but famine of God's Word and blessings.
The Ezek passage in context is about the time period of the 70 ad destruction of Jerusalem.
-----
So based on your reply and trusting in the scriptures, when you read Isaiah chapter 3 do you see physical things like children, women, clothing, foul smell, jewelry, baldness/nakedness? or do you see spiritual things like
teachers that are not skilled in God's word or 7 churches with all kinds of problems or no covering for sin or prayers that stink in the Lords nostrils or a bunch of garb and prompt and circumstance. (religion)?
teachers that are not skilled in God's word or 7 churches with all kinds of problems or no covering for sin or prayers that stink in the Lords nostrils or a bunch of garb and prompt and circumstance. (religion)?