They can call it what they want - the "other" testament, the "one before this one", just as long as we all know which is which and who is who, and in the end it's only round and round. And round.
REVELATION
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They can call it what they want - the "other" testament, the "one before this one", just as long as we all know which is which and who is who, and in the end it's only round and round. And round.
Testament is another word for covenant. There are many previous, olderThey can call it what they want - the "other" testament, the "one before this one", just as long as we all know which is which and who is who, and in the end it's only round and round. And round.
covenants. Jesus brought in the newer better covenant. It is Scriptural to
call it a new covenant because Jesus did so
For instance in Luke 22:20:And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying,
"This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood."
BigJa - Old Testament is called that because folks put together letters and called it New Testament
It is a bit silly to me actually. The OT is truly the "Hebrew Bible" .. they call it the Tanakh. (Tah-nach)
the NT is just proof the OT is true, and Messiah came. To be very very short about it.
It is a bit silly to me actually. The OT is truly the "Hebrew Bible" .. they call it the Tanakh. (Tah-nach)
the NT is just proof the OT is true, and Messiah came. To be very very short about it.
I think the "old" naming/usage probably came from Hebrews, although the writer does call it the "first":
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
Heb 9:1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
Heb 9:1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
Exodus 24:8
So Moses took the blood and sprinkled it on the people, and
said, "Behold the blood of the covenant, which the LORD
has made with you in accordance with all these words."
Jeremiah 31:31
"Behold, days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make
a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,
King James Bible Mark 14:24
And he said unto them, This is my blood of
the new testament, which is shed for many.
So Moses took the blood and sprinkled it on the people, and
said, "Behold the blood of the covenant, which the LORD
has made with you in accordance with all these words."
Jeremiah 31:31
"Behold, days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make
a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,
King James Bible Mark 14:24
And he said unto them, This is my blood of
the new testament, which is shed for many.
God has made more than 2 covenants (agreements, promises) through history. Adam and Eve : (don't eat this and you'll live) Noah : (build this boat you'll live) Abraham : (trust and follow Me and you'll be blessed) Israel ((most familiar)) : (follow these 10 rules and you'll be blessed)
the difference in those and the covenant of Christ, is that we can't do anything to get the promise/blessing, it's a gift, and, He WILL not break it. And if we are chosen, we CAN not break it. Clearly we can see where people failed in their covenants in the OT - but the "new covenant" is all His work, not ours. It always has been, really. But this is how it's unfolded.
but we are a little off topic. No matter
the difference in those and the covenant of Christ, is that we can't do anything to get the promise/blessing, it's a gift, and, He WILL not break it. And if we are chosen, we CAN not break it. Clearly we can see where people failed in their covenants in the OT - but the "new covenant" is all His work, not ours. It always has been, really. But this is how it's unfolded.
but we are a little off topic. No matter
All the previous covenants were subsumed into the Mosaic which contained the elements of it's own demise the new covenant.
All the promises are in and to Christ:
(Gal 3:19 KJV) Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
The "law" in the above is in reference to Torah, not just the Decalogue.
All of the "OT" is relevant to the book of revelation because John's relies on the prophets numerous times
All the promises are in and to Christ:
(Gal 3:19 KJV) Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
The "law" in the above is in reference to Torah, not just the Decalogue.
All of the "OT" is relevant to the book of revelation because John's relies on the prophets numerous times
Not sure how they were subsumed into it - they all had too happen to and in special ways. I do understand the idea of what you mean though. The Christ Covenant is "new" but He did promise this Savior to Adam and Eve in Genesis. So since then, the covenant (trusting a Savior for salvation) has really always been there. I don't think I need to quote all the OT passages telling of the coming Messiah? The Child to be given?
Yes - He came and put it into further motion. However - people like to bring "communion" into this "new covenant" when He just says "do this in remembrance of Me" not do this to maintain a covenant. Just thinking.. I agree it's all pertinent thank you
Yes - He came and put it into further motion. However - people like to bring "communion" into this "new covenant" when He just says "do this in remembrance of Me" not do this to maintain a covenant. Just thinking.. I agree it's all pertinent thank you
Yes - the prediction of Christ is found in Genesis, so that promise was brought into the Mosaic.
Mat 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
The blood guilt for Abel was brought upon the apostate Jews of the first century thus establishing the Mosaic to have incorporated all the elements from Genesis onward.
Mat 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
The blood guilt for Abel was brought upon the apostate Jews of the first century thus establishing the Mosaic to have incorporated all the elements from Genesis onward.
If you are born of GodTestament is another word for covenant. There are many previous, older
covenants. Jesus brought in the newer better covenant. It is Scriptural to
call it a new covenant because Jesus did so
And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying,
"This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood."
then why would you need a covenant with God
seeing how you and Him are of the same Spirit?
We need a covenant that gives us forgiveness of sin - even "born agin's" sin.
Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
The book is meant to be understood and the very name means to reveal.....it is revealing who Jesus is as God and how he will be introduced to the world as such....the key is found in verse 3 of chapter one....Blessed is he that readeth<---this word comes from 2 Greek word...ana-ginosko and means to know again<--As in studied through many times not just read once.....this book needs to be understood in the light of numerous other books, chapters and verses found throughout the bible....it contains past, present and future context, is both literal and symbolic and was written unto 7 churches that over all represent the types of churches that will be found on the planet at any given time until the end of the age.......!
I feel as if the value i can add to the topic is to mention the idea that understanding of the book of revelation, connects to the prophets of old. i try to stay with the word, interpreting the Word. also the Gospel in my own humble view, imparts understanding related to the evennts pictured in revelation.
i firmly believe that we cant follow it chronologically because of the way it is written. the earth and sky flee from Gods presence more than once, the sun and moon are darkened more than once, i tend to read it as if it overlaps. Things happen in Heaven, and are manifest on earth. the four beasts if one connects prophets of old who have added insight into thier meaning, there is alot of info about them.
Like you , as of now i am in a continuing study of prophecy I have alot of thoughts of what they mean, but it seems to lead to alot of arguments in my own experience I know that they are created biengs , who have spirits that they follow wherever the spirits go, the beasts follow. I also know that they are sent into all the earth and are connected to angels of the four winds that are holding Back the wrath of God concerning the very end. they are servants of God who do not go astray from His spirits leading ( look into the wheels of fire in ezekiel regarding that the spirit of the 4 beasts are in the wheels and they always go exactly where the spirit goes.
the eyes that cover them to me suggests they are witnesses of all things, all seeing. and the word tells us that all things are laid bare before the Lord. Im not sure were supposed to identify them as one certain thing, we Know they are chrebums in service of God and obey everywhere He directs them through the spirit. I do believe certainly that prophecy answers much more is we understand that Gods spirit has been speaking of the end from the beginning of the prophets and a much fuller and more informed understanding is available if we dont just look at the book of revelation, but also lok to the rest of what the prophets saw in days of old concerning the same things near the end of time.
My own understanding of revelation has increased many times over through Letting the prophecy and the gospel fill in rather than trying to figure it out in my head. More than that Prayer for understanding each time we open the word, I believe God wants us to understand everything in the Bible with clarity, and is pleased when we ask Him to give us understanding.
this isnot to dispariage anyone elses views here, Just my own belief. God bless you.
Can i ask how you view revelation 12?
Many churches stay clear of the Book of Revelation, on a verse by verse study, because they teach; "You're going to be gone anyway at that time". They also say; "It's not to be understood yet".
That is odd because the very word "Revelation" means to "to reveal" or "unveil" something. When you unveil anything, you make it known.
The book of Revelation is a sister book to the book of Daniel in the Old Testament. Both of these books were written to the people who live in the final generation, of the "latter days". Daniel was told to, "shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end:" [Daniel 12:4]. He was told by God; "Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand: but the wise shall understand."[Daniel 12:10]
The wise are those who study God's word, line upon line, chapter upon chapter, and all these words are wisdom from God. This is why the wise should understand. As we study Revelation, let us take a fresh look at the book, and allow God's Word to speak through us. Let's permit the Holy Spirit to allow His words to speak to our hearts which is our minds with understanding. This chapter covers a time period that most people living on the face of the earth today will live through, and the wise Christian should understand these teachings.
So, be very cautious of any group who tells you not to study, or tothrow away part of God's word. Those are words Satan would use.
Revelation 1:10 "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,"
This verse is the key to understanding the book of Revelation. Without a clear and full understanding of it, the entire book just will not make sense. The sequence of order will seem strange.
"I"; this is John speaking and telling us where he was. "I was in the Spirit", not in his flesh body; "on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet". John is taken forward in time, "in the Spirit", to the day of the Lord. The "Day of the Lord" is not referring to Sunday or Saturday. This is the same "Day of the Lord" Paul speaks about in I Thessalonians 5:2, as "coming as a thief in the night". Later in II Thessalonians 2:2-3 Paul makes it clear that at the "Day of the Lord" Christ's return will not happen until "after there will be a great falling away first; and "that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition". Satan must be revealed in his role as the Antichrist first before that seventh trumpet can sound, the last trumpet.
The time, or day, John was taken to was beyond our time frame; however, we are living in the generation that will see it come to pass, and live through what John saw and lived, while in the Spirit. There is only one day that is called "The Day of the Lord" in all the Scriptures.
Isaiah 2:12 "For the day of the Lord of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low."
That is odd because the very word "Revelation" means to "to reveal" or "unveil" something. When you unveil anything, you make it known.
The book of Revelation is a sister book to the book of Daniel in the Old Testament. Both of these books were written to the people who live in the final generation, of the "latter days". Daniel was told to, "shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end:" [Daniel 12:4]. He was told by God; "Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand: but the wise shall understand."[Daniel 12:10]
The wise are those who study God's word, line upon line, chapter upon chapter, and all these words are wisdom from God. This is why the wise should understand. As we study Revelation, let us take a fresh look at the book, and allow God's Word to speak through us. Let's permit the Holy Spirit to allow His words to speak to our hearts which is our minds with understanding. This chapter covers a time period that most people living on the face of the earth today will live through, and the wise Christian should understand these teachings.
So, be very cautious of any group who tells you not to study, or tothrow away part of God's word. Those are words Satan would use.
Revelation 1:10 "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,"
This verse is the key to understanding the book of Revelation. Without a clear and full understanding of it, the entire book just will not make sense. The sequence of order will seem strange.
"I"; this is John speaking and telling us where he was. "I was in the Spirit", not in his flesh body; "on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet". John is taken forward in time, "in the Spirit", to the day of the Lord. The "Day of the Lord" is not referring to Sunday or Saturday. This is the same "Day of the Lord" Paul speaks about in I Thessalonians 5:2, as "coming as a thief in the night". Later in II Thessalonians 2:2-3 Paul makes it clear that at the "Day of the Lord" Christ's return will not happen until "after there will be a great falling away first; and "that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition". Satan must be revealed in his role as the Antichrist first before that seventh trumpet can sound, the last trumpet.
The time, or day, John was taken to was beyond our time frame; however, we are living in the generation that will see it come to pass, and live through what John saw and lived, while in the Spirit. There is only one day that is called "The Day of the Lord" in all the Scriptures.
Isaiah 2:12 "For the day of the Lord of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low."
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No where in the bible does it state that the book of Daniel was for the "final" generation.
Daniel was told to seal the book until the time of the end - you need to discern what time of the end means.
John was told NOT to seal the book, which means it was meant to be understood in his generation not one hundreds of years in the future:
Rev 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.
"At hand" does not mean hundreds of years later.