Revolution in Iran

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Journey_man said:
None of those scriptures mention anything about nation of Israel, returning to their ancestral land in 1948. And none of them reveal anything about the time of Christ's return.
I don't think we can use the old method of calculating dates, as they did in the Old Testament and apply it to New Testament prophecies about Israel and the return of Christ.
A lot has changed after Christ, "Israel" is no longer refers to an ethnicity, as the Israel of God is the Church.

I follow my Pastor, because he has been appointed by God to teach me and watch over me. My blood will be on his hands if he deceives me. He has been given the gift of discernment and teaching, he is a Shepherd and our Church members are the Sheep. That's Gods design, for His Church.

You haven't found a single fault in anything my Shepherd teaches, so I can only assume your denomination interprets the Bible in a different way. In any case God will not judge any believer, for being deceived by the Shepherd He appointed for them, or for not "cracking the prophetic code" in the celestial lottery.
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Yes, there are many supposed "pastors" that actually teach and preach "replacement theology" and/or amillennialism and/or historicism and/or hyper-calvinism aka super-determinism.

These are they which I immediately DISQUALIFY, as there are UNQUALIFIED for very many very good reasons.

Have a nice day!
 
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Slimsumo said:
Is the Church an enemy of the Gospel? Is the Church in partial blindness until the fullness of the gentiles have come in?

Romans 11:25-28
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
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Yes there are Church members who are enemies of the gospel. Yes there are many Church members, who are partially blind until the fullness of the gentiles comes in.

You seem to be missing the fact that Gods elect are and have always been made up of Jews and Gentiles. So Gentiles have always been a part of the Israel of God.

In Romans 11:11–15, Paul also makes the point that the rejection of the Jews had been to the advantage of the Gentiles. We must exercise caution in making this point, so that it is not made to appear that salvation among Gentiles is somehow a back-up plan by God. To the contrary, Romans 4:13–17 expounds the fact that God’s promise to Abraham that he would be the father of many nations always included the Gentiles, who would come to share Abraham’s faith. The rejection of the Jews was simply the means by which God’s eternal plan and purposes would be accomplished.
 
ZNP said:
With all due respect, I must reject your views and believe what the Bible teaches instead.

John the Baptist was a date setter, he said that Jesus was the lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world indicating that he would be crucified on Passover.

Jesus was a date setter because He told the disciples that He would be crucified when He got to Jerusalem.

Daniel was a date setter because he gave us the year that Jesus would be crucified.

Jeremiah was a date setter because he told Israel how many years they would be in Babylon before God gave them permission to return.

Abraham was a date setter because he told us that God told him how many years his descendants would be in Egypt before they would be allowed to leave.

Your "minister" taught you that, "Every date-setter in history has been wrong. Such predictions bring disrepute to the Gospel and cause unnecessary trauma when the date passes". He is wrong, because I just have you five examples in the Bible where they were not wrong, and five examples in the Bible that did not bring disrepute to the Gospel.
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None of that deals with Israel's return to their ancestral land, and none of it deals with the return of Christ. So it's all irrelevant
 
cv5 said:
Yes, there are many supposed "pastors" that actually teach and preach "replacement theology" and/or amillennialism and/or historicism and/or hyper-calvinism aka super-determinism.

These are they which I immediately DISQUALIFY, as there are UNQUALIFIED for very many very good reasons.

Have a nice day!
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Your "very many very good reasons" are based on your own personal opinions. None of which are supported by any scripture, (unless the scriptures are subjugated to your private scrutiny and approval).

There are around 120 verses of scripture that support (super-determinism), I have only included a few blow. I just want to see how you try to get around them. We know there is no way around them but, your welcome to try.
2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

John 15:16 You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.

Ephesians 2:8-10
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

John 6:37-40
All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.

John 10:27-29
My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

All the above prove that man does not chose God, but God did chose His elect before time began. He wrote our names in His book of life, nobody can add their name to His book and nobody's name can be removed. It was sealed before the foundation of the world, so it's a done deal.
 
Journey_man said:
None of that deals with Israel's return to their ancestral land, and none of it deals with the return of Christ. So it's all irrelevant
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All of it deals with whether or not God gives us timelines in His prophecies which your minister said He doesn't. So now you are saying "Yes, God gave timelines for how long Israel would be in captivity before their exodus, how long before a man named Moses, a type of the Messiah, would come and deliver them", and yes God gave timelines for how long Israel would be scattered in Babylon before God would bring them back, and yes, God told us how long it would be before Jesus Christ the Messiah would come and be crucified, and yes, both Jesus and John the Baptist told us the day and the manner with which Jesus Christ, the Messiah would be crucified. But God does not give us a timeline for the Day of the Lord, the end of the age, despite the Day of the Lord and the second coming of Jesus being the single biggest prophetic topic in the Bible. 150 chapters in the Bible deal with the end times. The second coming of the Lord is mentioned more than 2,000 times in the Bible (counting both Old Testament and New Testament references). The New Testament mentions the Second Coming of Jesus Christ over 300 times (approximately once every 25 verses), and Jesus gives us specific commands to "watch," "be ready," or "wait" for His return (Matthew 24-25, Mark 13, Luke 12, 21). We are told specifically what the signs will be, what the generation will be, and yet your "minister" tells you not to watch. Don't pay attention to these signs. I got it, you have told me more than enough about "your minister" and how foolish you are to let him dissuade you from heeding the Lord's command to watch. You don't deny that all the references I gave you were timelines given by God in His word, you only deny that Ezekiel and Daniel and the books of Moses gave us a timeline for the second coming and your reasoning was "God doesn't give timelines" hence they can't be timelines. Wake up. The only one you are kidding is yourself.
 
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Does God give us a timeline for the end of the age?

Does God give us a timeline for the second coming.pdf

drive.google.com drive.google.com

Here is a Pdf summarizing what I have shared. If cv5 has suggestions for additions let me know. Anyone can download it, 13 pages long, it is easier to read than to go through the back and forth on this. However, I do include the verses that @Journey_man gave to support his "minister's" interpretation.
 
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ZNP said:
Does God give us a timeline for the end of the age?

Does God give us a timeline for the second coming.pdf

drive.google.com drive.google.com

Here is a Pdf summarizing what I have shared. If cv5 has suggestions for additions let me know. Anyone can download it, 13 pages long, it is easier to read than to go through the back and forth on this. However, I do include the verses that @Journey_man gave to support his "minister's" interpretation.
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From your link:

"The House of Judah did return to Israel after having been in Babylon, Israel didn’t."​

This is not true. Many of Israel came back to the land and were living there when Christ arrived. Who do you think the disciples were?

And Judah and Israel were joined back together as one stick at Pentecost
 
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ZNP said:
Does God give us a timeline for the end of the age?

Does God give us a timeline for the second coming.pdf

drive.google.com drive.google.com

Here is a Pdf summarizing what I have shared. If cv5 has suggestions for additions let me know. Anyone can download it, 13 pages long, it is easier to read than to go through the back and forth on this. However, I do include the verses that @Journey_man gave to support his "minister's" interpretation.
Click to expand...

Your interpretation is based on several assumptions that range from indeterminable to dubious.

For example, that Christ was killed in 30AD. That's possible, but at best it's a guess.

Your prediction, with its assumptions and elaborate connections that stretch credulity, is the kind of date setting that always ends up wrong.
 
Amazing....
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Your interpretation is based on several assumptions that range from indeterminable to dubious.

For example, that Christ was killed in 30AD. That's possible, but at best it's a guess.

Your prediction, with its assumptions and elaborate connections that stretch credulity, is the kind of date setting that always ends up wrong.
Click to expand...
You went AWOL on replying to these earlier inquiries (for reasons that are obvious):

So did the Church replace Israel?
Or did Israel replace the Church?
Are all gentile believers now Israelites (spiritually or otherwise)?
Or is it that saved Israelites and saved gentiles are categorically discrete?

ROFL....:LOL:
 
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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Your interpretation is based on several assumptions that range from indeterminable to dubious.

For example, that Christ was killed in 30AD. That's possible, but at best it's a guess.

Your prediction, with its assumptions and elaborate connections that stretch credulity, is the kind of date setting that always ends up wrong.
Click to expand...
Yes, Augustin went off the rails. One must align to HEBREW concepts and thought processes. That is where you start if you want to finish on target. In fact Paul warns that Greek (Platonic) supposed "wisdom" is vain and valueless.

1. Augustine really was shaped by Manichaeism (before conversion)

Augustine was a Manichaean adherent for ~9 years (late teens to late 20s).
Manichaeism taught:
Strong spirit vs matter dualism
A tendency to see the physical world as inferior or problematic
Allegorical interpretation of texts

👉 After his conversion, Augustine supposedly rejected Manichaeism.

But—and this is the key point—many historians say:

Certain habits of thought remained, especially:
Comfort with allegorical interpretation
A more philosophical / abstract approach to Scripture

2. Influence of Neoplatonism (just as important)

Equally (or more) influential was Neoplatonism:

He read works of Plotinus shortly before conversion.
This shaped ideas like:
God as timeless, immaterial
Reality structured in spiritual hierarchy
Truth grasped through intellectual illumination

👉 This reinforced a tendency to read Scripture less literally and more spiritually.

3. How this affected his eschatology

Earlier church (often)

Many early writers (like Justin Martyr and Irenaeus):

Expected a literal future kingdom on earth
A reign of Christ from Jerusalem
A restoration of Israel

👉 This is often called premillennialism.

Augustine’s shift

Augustine moved toward what became amillennialism:

The “thousand years” of Revelation 20 is symbolic
The kingdom is present now in the Church
No future earthly Jewish kingdom in the literal sense

What may have carried over:
A tendency toward non-literal interpretation
Suspicion of overly material / earthly expectations
Preference for spiritualized fulfillment

4. The real turning point

A major factor was his reaction against certain literalist excesses:

Some early Christians expected very earthly, almost political kingdoms
Augustine saw these as too crude or mistaken

5. What likely carried over from Augustine's exposure to Gnosticism:

A tendency toward non-literal interpretation
Suspicion of overly material / earthly expectations
Preference for spiritualized fulfillment
 
cv5 said:
You went AWOL on replying to these earlier inquiries (for reasons that are obvious):
  1. So did the Church replace Israel?
  2. Or did Israel replace the Church?
  3. Are all gentile believers now Israelites (spiritually or otherwise)?
  4. Or is it that saved Israelites and saved gentiles are categorically discrete?

ROFL....:LOL:
Click to expand...

  1. No
  2. Nonsensical question
  3. All believers in Christ are the seed of Israel and Abraham
  4. There is no distinction
 
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ZNP said:
All of it deals with whether or not God gives us timelines in His prophecies which your minister said He doesn't. So now you are saying "Yes, God gave timelines for how long Israel would be in captivity before their exodus, how long before a man named Moses, a type of the Messiah, would come and deliver them", and yes God gave timelines for how long Israel would be scattered in Babylon before God would bring them back, and yes, God told us how long it would be before Jesus Christ the Messiah would come and be crucified, and yes, both Jesus and John the Baptist told us the day and the manner with which Jesus Christ, the Messiah would be crucified. But God does not give us a timeline for the Day of the Lord, the end of the age, despite the Day of the Lord and the second coming of Jesus being the single biggest prophetic topic in the Bible. 150 chapters in the Bible deal with the end times. The second coming of the Lord is mentioned more than 2,000 times in the Bible (counting both Old Testament and New Testament references). The New Testament mentions the Second Coming of Jesus Christ over 300 times (approximately once every 25 verses), and Jesus gives us specific commands to "watch," "be ready," or "wait" for His return (Matthew 24-25, Mark 13, Luke 12, 21). We are told specifically what the signs will be, what the generation will be, and yet your "minister" tells you not to watch. Don't pay attention to these signs. I got it, you have told me more than enough about "your minister" and how foolish you are to let him dissuade you from heeding the Lord's command to watch. You don't deny that all the references I gave you were timelines given by God in His word, you only deny that Ezekiel and Daniel and the books of Moses gave us a timeline for the second coming and your reasoning was "God doesn't give timelines" hence they can't be timelines. Wake up. The only one you are kidding is yourself.
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Well, God DID NOT provide a precise mathematically rigorous "timetable" for the rapture and beginning of the DOTL.
Not in the same manner as His first Coming.

BUT.......God DEFINITELY advised/warned/exhorted us to be observant of the SIGNS preceding his Coming.

Furthermore, the reconstitution of the Nation Israel IS ***THE SIGN*** most prominent, above and beyond all others.
BUT.....yes there are MANY other signs as well. Sociological, psychological, nations and government structures various phenomenon and so on and so forth.

AND YET, the reformation of Israel DOES seem to be indexed to a specific and relatively precise mathematical algorithm.
And bear in mind that the reconstitution (this national "pre-gathering") is NOT His Second Coming NOR the Rapture.
BUT IT IS "***THE*** SIGN" over and above all the SIGNS of the times and seasons spoken of preceding the Second Coming.
Not only that, this reconstitution is an absolutely necessary prerequisite for "end-time" prophecy to play out.

And this return of Israel does NOT "break any rules" regarding the words of Christ pertaining to His Coming. Not at all.

This reconstitution of the Nation Israel (so despised by the world!) is simply a landmark, a signpost, a huge red flag,
a warning siren, a flashing warning beacon telling us that the TIME IS NEAR! Its only a sign to show us that we are nearing the end zone of the playing field.

Yes, we do NOT and CANNOT know the day nor the hour. But we DEFINITELY now know that this is the season.
 
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