Revolution in Iran

[Gideon300]

The Theory: If Psalm 83 is the precursor to Ezekiel 38, the result of this war must be a "Greater Israel" that is finally at rest, living in "unwalled villages" without bars or gates (Ezekiel 38:11).

The Reality: Currently, Israel is heavily fortified with the Iron Dome and security walls. To those who see this as unfulfilled, the "missing piece" is a war that ends with such a decisive Israeli victory that the immediate neighbors are no longer a threat, leading to the temporary, false sense of security required for the Gog and Magog invasion to begin.

[Psa 83:2-8 KJV] 2 For, lo, thine enemies make a tumult: and they that hate thee have lifted up the head. 3 They have taken crafty counsel against thy people, and consulted against thy hidden ones. 4 They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from [being] a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance. 5 For they have consulted together with one consent: they are confederate against thee: 6 The tabernacles of Edom, and the Ishmaelites; of Moab, and the Hagarenes; 7 Gebal, and Ammon, and Amalek; the Philistines with the inhabitants of Tyre; 8 Assur also is joined with them: they have holpen the children of Lot. Selah.

It may well be that the Iran war is exactly the event that leads to "Greater Israel". For all the huffing and puffing, Europe is turning to Israel for sophisticated weapons, for food and gas. Israel excels in medical innovation. The smart phone is an Israeli development. Israel is the world leader in desalination technology and in irrigation systems.

Israel has a history of complacency leading to near disaster. 1973 nearly brought about the end of Israel. The October 7th attack by Hamas was supposed to be coordinated with Hezbollah. Hamas jumped the gun, Israel was unprepared. Israel could easily been completely overrun. There have been other, less dramatic incidents through the years.

With Iran out of the picture, Hamas and Hezbollah will wither. Hamas is already pretty much destroyed. When you look at the nations that invade in the Gog of Magog war, they are all well to the north of Israel. They include Turkey, probably Russia and I would not be surprised to see much more powerful Ukraine involved.





Arab nations once hostile to Israel are starting to soften their stance. Israel

 

[Melach]

The Theory: If Psalm 83 is the precursor to Ezekiel 38, the result of this war must be a "Greater Israel" that is finally at rest, living in "unwalled villages" without bars or gates (Ezekiel 38:11).

The Reality: Currently, Israel is heavily fortified with the Iron Dome and security walls. To those who see this as unfulfilled, the "missing piece" is a war that ends with such a decisive Israeli victory that the immediate neighbors are no longer a threat, leading to the temporary, false sense of security required for the Gog and Magog invasion to begin.

[Psa 83:2-8 KJV] 2 For, lo, thine enemies make a tumult: and they that hate thee have lifted up the head. 3 They have taken crafty counsel against thy people, and consulted against thy hidden ones. 4 They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from [being] a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance. 5 For they have consulted together with one consent: they are confederate against thee: 6 The tabernacles of Edom, and the Ishmaelites; of Moab, and the Hagarenes; 7 Gebal, and Ammon, and Amalek; the Philistines with the inhabitants of Tyre; 8 Assur also is joined with them: they have holpen the children of Lot. Selah.

you can rest easy, there is no coming psalm 83 war. the edomites are extinct for centuries. these are ancient peoples that are long gone

 

[Journey_man]

The Good News is for everyone, they can be persuaded or not persuaded for various reasons, but I believe and..... scripture supports God's desire is for no one to perish, but for everyone to come to repentance. (2 Peter 3:9)
But anyway off to topic so will leave it there.

I would just like to add that 2 Peter 3:9—"The Lord is not... wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance"—is speaking about God’s patient, sovereign desire for the salvation of his elect, rather than a universal desire to save every person who ever lived. The verse explains the delay in Christ's return, ensuring all chosen believers come to faith.
The passage addresses believers ("beloved," "toward you"), not humanity in general. Therefore, the "any" who should not perish refers to the elect within that specific group.
The "all" that should reach repentance refers back to the "not any" of the elect. Jesus delays his return until every single one of his sheep has been brought to the fold.
The patience mentioned is not because God desires to save all but cannot, but because he is purposefully waiting for all the elect to repent.

 

[Aussie52]

I would just like to add that 2 Peter 3:9—"The Lord is not... wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance"—is speaking about God’s patient, sovereign desire for the salvation of his elect, rather than a universal desire to save every person who ever lived. The verse explains the delay in Christ's return, ensuring all chosen believers come to faith.
The passage addresses believers ("beloved," "toward you"), not humanity in general. Therefore, the "any" who should not perish refers to the elect within that specific group.
The "all" that should reach repentance refers back to the "not any" of the elect. Jesus delays his return until every single one of his sheep has been brought to the fold.
The patience mentioned is not because God desires to save all but cannot, but because he is purposefully waiting for all the elect to repent.

I have known the Jehovah's Witnesses to twist Scripture, but you............you are up there with them.

 

[Journey_man]

Every single cult leader wants their acolytes to shut their brain off and blindly follow them.
You have stated as much when describing the response and tenor of your pastor to uncomfortable questions that challenge his unbiblical Augustinian/Reformed/Calvinistic dogmatism.

My Pastor dismissed your views, because they are based on a false premise. If he entered into a debate with you, then it would mean that your theology has some merit. But he dismissed it because it's nonsense, and wise men don't waste time on baseless and vain disputes.

Would you enter into a debate with me if I claimed that the earth is flat and all those who believe that it's a globe have been brainwashed to believe the lie. How would you prove that the earth is a globe, if I've already made up my mind that it's flat and no amount of evidence will convince me that it's a globe.

You dismissed all the verses I cited, without giving any reason for doing so. You simply referred to other verses, as if Gods Word can be used to refute those verses which contradict your claims.

 

[ZNP]

The Theory: If Psalm 83 is the precursor to Ezekiel 38, the result of this war must be a "Greater Israel" that is finally at rest, living in "unwalled villages" without bars or gates (Ezekiel 38:11).

The Reality: Currently, Israel is heavily fortified with the Iron Dome and security walls. To those who see this as unfulfilled, the "missing piece" is a war that ends with such a decisive Israeli victory that the immediate neighbors are no longer a threat, leading to the temporary, false sense of security required for the Gog and Magog invasion to begin.

[Psa 83:2-8 KJV] 2 For, lo, thine enemies make a tumult: and they that hate thee have lifted up the head. 3 They have taken crafty counsel against thy people, and consulted against thy hidden ones. 4 They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from [being] a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance. 5 For they have consulted together with one consent: they are confederate against thee: 6 The tabernacles of Edom, and the Ishmaelites; of Moab, and the Hagarenes; 7 Gebal, and Ammon, and Amalek; the Philistines with the inhabitants of Tyre; 8 Assur also is joined with them: they have holpen the children of Lot. Selah.

There is another interpretation.

In the Old Testament Israel was two parts, Judah was composed of two tribes, and Israel was composed of ten tribes. Today we have two Jewish nations, Israel and the US. They each have 49% of the world's Jews. If we consider that the US represents the ten tribes and Israel represents Judah, the two tribes, then today the US would be the nation living at ease in unwalled villages. However, that is not the only issue with Ezekiel 38. It says they come for plunder and refers specifically to cattle. That could refer to the US, but no one is going to consider that Israel in the Middle East has a lot of cattle to plunder. That is totally absurd, just as saying they are the land of unwalled villages. Also we are told that all this takes place in perilous times so it is also absurd to say that in the midst of these perilous times Israel will get rid of the walls. That would not be a reasonable response to the attack described in Psalm 83. If we consider WW2 to be a foreshadowing of the seven year tribulation, then Ezekiel 38 refers to Pearl Harbor attack.

 

[ZNP]

you can rest easy, there is no coming psalm 83 war. the edomites are extinct for centuries. these are ancient peoples that are long gone

The Edomites refer to Islam, the evil twin of Judaism.

 

[ZNP]

My Pastor dismissed your views, because they are based on a false premise.

What a wonderful illustration of someone who is brainwashed and in a cult. Our faith does not rest on what a man says, it rests on the rock, the revelation of Jesus Christ. No one cares what your Pastor does, the only thing we are interested in is what the word of God says.

 

[Journey_man]

Pages and pages of Scriptures have been posted that you'd have to rip out of the Bible to believe Replacement Theology. It was Martin Luthers Catholic belief that held on, hatred of the Jewish people. When he tried to convert them and they didn't he turned on them and that was the start of Replacement Theology.

I don't believe any of that, and I'm not a follower of Martin Luther or his "replacement theology". The only replacement theology I believe in is the one that the Lord Jesus established when He replaced the Temple with His Body.

So, yes the Lord Jesus is the new Temple but he didn't destroy the old Temple, He incorporated the Jews and Gentiles in His new Temple, so it's not quite "replacement theology", more like a new and better Temple built on top of the old one.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

What a wonderful illustration of someone who is brainwashed and in a cult. Our faith does not rest on what a man says, it rests on the rock, the revelation of Jesus Christ. No one cares what your Pastor does, the only thing we are interested in is what the word of God says.

Which is what men have said

 

[HeIsHere]

I have known the Jehovah's Witnesses to twist Scripture, but you............you are up there with them.

Reads like Reformed/Calvinistic soteriology.

 

[Journey_man]

Correct, but that doesn't mean God didn't make promises to the Jewish people that He will keep.


No one forces you to do anything. Believe whatever you wish. But Romans 11 is clear.

I don't see how Romans 11 helps your case, when it confirms my case in verse 7-8

Romans 11:7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

8; Just as it is written: “God has given them a spirit of stupor, Eyes that they should not see And ears that they should not hear, To this very day.”

Now please note verse 7 reveals that (the elect, meaning Gods chosen people, Jews and Gentiles) have obtained it. So the elect have already obtained salvation, we don't need to wait until judgement day.

Verse 7 destroys the theory that Israel is Gods elect people, no because there are no Jews or Gentiles in the New Temple, we are all One in Christ.

 

[Journey_man]

I have known the Jehovah's Witnesses to twist Scripture, but you............you are up there with them.

Why is one Aussie against another Aussie, were supposed to be united but the Lord Jesus said He came a sword to divide people. His gospel cuts people off from their family, friends and country men. But it's all good, no love lost on my part.

 

[Journey_man]

What a wonderful illustration of someone who is brainwashed and in a cult. Our faith does not rest on what a man says, it rests on the rock, the revelation of Jesus Christ. No one cares what your Pastor does, the only thing we are interested in is what the word of God says.

That's all true, but the problem remains; "which one of the 30+ conflicting interpretations of what Gods says should I believe.
You haven't revealed which interpretation you subscribe to, or which of the 49,000 denominations do you belong to.
You can't hide behind cliche's, and throw away lines like "we are interested in what the Word of God says", but then never revealing what you think it actually says.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

I don't see how Romans 11 helps your case, when it confirms my case in verse 7-8

Romans 11:7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

8; Just as it is written: “God has given them a spirit of stupor, Eyes that they should not see And ears that they should not hear, To this very day.”

Now please note verse 7 reveals that (the elect, meaning Gods chosen people, Jews and Gentiles) have obtained it. So the elect have already obtained salvation, we don't need to wait until judgement day.

Verse 7 destroys the theory that Israel is Gods elect people, no because there are no Jews or Gentiles in the New Temple, we are all One in Christ.

That's not what Romans 11 says.

 

[HeIsHere]

I don't see how Romans 11 helps your case, when it confirms my case in verse 7-8

Romans 11:7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

8; Just as it is written: “God has given them a spirit of stupor, Eyes that they should not see And ears that they should not hear, To this very day.”

Now please note verse 7 reveals that (the elect, meaning Gods chosen people, Jews and Gentiles) have obtained it. So the elect have already obtained salvation, we don't need to wait until judgement day.

Verse 7 destroys the theory that Israel is Gods elect people, no because there are no Jews or Gentiles in the New Temple, we are all One in Christ.

Yes agree, the facts you state, the dispensationalists work very hard to dismiss, avoid, ignore and deny, they have to by necessity to make the two groups system work.

Another fact is Romans 11 cannot and should not be isolated and understood apart from the rest of the text.

Along with, the undeniable fact, that the letters are written to the believers in Rome at the time, and not to us, so it is in their near future reality not 2000+ years into the future, that is just plain nonsense.

 

[cv5]

My Pastor dismissed your views, because they are based on a false premise. If he entered into a debate with you, then it would mean that your theology has some merit. But he dismissed it because it's nonsense, and wise men don't waste time on baseless and vain disputes.

Would you enter into a debate with me if I claimed that the earth is flat and all those who believe that it's a globe have been brainwashed to believe the lie. How would you prove that the earth is a globe, if I've already made up my mind that it's flat and no amount of evidence will convince me that it's a globe.

You dismissed all the verses I cited, without giving any reason for doing so. You simply referred to other verses, as if Gods Word can be used to refute those verses which contradict your claims.

Your problem: is that YOU yourself cannot and will not offer a cogent rebuttal using Scripture.
Makes you vulnerable to grifters and snake oil salesmen.

Another thing, this pastor declares "false premise". What has that to do with me providing the correct English rendering of the Greek term proorizō, the root being horizō?

 

[ZNP]

That's all true, but the problem remains; "which one of the 30+ conflicting interpretations of what Gods says should I believe.
You haven't revealed which interpretation you subscribe to, or which of the 49,000 denominations do you belong to.
You can't hide behind cliche's, and throw away lines like "we are interested in what the Word of God says", but then never revealing what you think it actually says.

KJV is a good version, 1901 American Standard is a good version, Greek and Hebrew interlinears are also good.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Another fact is Romans 11 cannot and should not be isolated and understood apart from the rest of the text.

Romans 11 doesn't say anything different than what Romans 9-10 says, ie., only a believing remnant is saved.