Romans 10:17, a courtroom haearing?

[Watchman22]

I'm all ears.That's what I said. God knows if a person's faith in Christ is genuine. That is why a person must be dilligent to rest from his works.Expectations must exist, "for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him" (Heb 11:6). Nobody can come to God unless he believes that God gives rewards. And those rewards include "not perishing" and having "eternal life" (Jn 3:16). They also include "the forgiveness of sins" (Col 1:14). And certainly, when a person goes to Jesus for salvation, he can expect that "the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out" (Jn 6:37)
If a person is precluded from having expectations of something in return when he first turns to Christ, it is inconsistent to say that he may develop said expectations based on the evidence of his daily decisions that support the genuinness of his surrender. As a result, this view of "faith" does not seem to provide any kind of "hope of eternal life" (Titus 1:2, 3:7).

Just keep in mind, your choice not only affects you, but your household also.

 

[Watchman22]

Let's talk about legal tender.

10 For he who has entered (past participle) His rest has himself also ceased (past tense) from his works as God did from His. (Heb 4:10)​

The evidence that a person has entered God's rest is that his works have ceased. The construction above places "entering His rest" before "ceasing from works". This is important because it implies that a person who has rested all his weight on Christ no longer has motivation to continue to work for their salvation.

11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience. (Heb 4:10–11).​

These words contain the "legal tender". According to BDAG, the Greek word here for disobedience means "disobedience, in our literature always of disobedience toward God... with the connotation of disbelief in the Christian gospel". [Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., Bauer, W., & Gingrich, F. W. (2000). In A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed., p. 99). University of Chicago Press.]

Our dilligence to accept the message of the gospel that Jesus sacrificed Himself for our sins and our trust that His sacrifice was sufficient payment for our own sins is the only legal tender that creates a restful heart that leads a person to stop working to secure their own salvation.

Everything in this life God put us into takes work and effort. Including a correct response to the call of the Father.

The rest your standing on is only a small part of Faith and faithing, just like the words believe, believer, and believing. If those small parts are taken as the whole, it's an obvious error.

 

[Watchman22]

Let's talk about legal tender.

10 For he who has entered (past participle) His rest has himself also ceased (past tense) from his works as God did from His. (Heb 4:10)​

The evidence that a person has entered God's rest is that his works have ceased. The construction above places "entering His rest" before "ceasing from works". This is important because it implies that a person who has rested all his weight on Christ no longer has motivation to continue to work for their salvation.

11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience. (Heb 4:10–11).​

These words contain the "legal tender". According to BDAG, the Greek word here for disobedience means "disobedience, in our literature always of disobedience toward God... with the connotation of disbelief in the Christian gospel". [Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., Bauer, W., & Gingrich, F. W. (2000). In A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed., p. 99). University of Chicago Press.]

Our dilligence to accept the message of the gospel that Jesus sacrificed Himself for our sins and our trust that His sacrifice was sufficient payment for our own sins is the only legal tender that creates a restful heart that leads a person to stop working to secure their own salvation.

This isn't just a theology I'm passionate about. I've been practicing this for 38 years.

Surrendering my life and will over to Him all day , every day.

And He took that life and today put it in your lap because He obviously wants and loves you.

I just hope you'll give it the consideration it deserves.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

This isn't just a theology I'm passionate about. I've been practicing this for 38 years.

Surrendering my life and will over to Him all day , every day.

And He took that life and today put it in your lap because He obviously wants and loves you.

I just hope you'll give it the consideration it deserves.

You're so arrogant (maybe well-intentioned, but deceived) to think that no one but you has the keys to the kingdom. If you could only see yourself in a mirror...

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

You do have to make a choice though.

What are you talking about exactly? Please spell it out so that there is no way for me to misunderstand what you are saying I must do.

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

This isn't just a theology I'm passionate about. I've been practicing this for 38 years.

Surrendering my life and will over to Him all day , every day.

And He took that life and today put it in your lap because He obviously wants and loves you.

I just hope you'll give it the consideration it deserves.

Hmmm... God put you in my lap because He wants me? And to find Him I must choose to follow you? Are you the leader of a cult or something like that? Please identify exactly what group you belong to.

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Everything in this life God put us into takes work and effort. Including a correct response to the call of the Father.

The rest your standing on is only a small part of Faith and faithing, just like the words believe, believer, and believing. If those small parts are taken as the whole, it's an obvious error.

It seems as though the road you have chosen is laborious and burdensome. Rest for one's soul is found only in Jesus.

28 Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.” (Mt 11:28–30)​

Note that there is rest for the souls of those who are working hard and whose burdens are heavy. And note that His yoke is easy and His burden is not heavy but light (i.e., it is easy to carry).

I reject your offer to join you. I was once taken captive by legalism when I was a young Christian, but God delivered me from it. Since then, He has never failed to warn me of doctrines that may lead me away from Him into captivity again. And because I know the ill-effects of that yoke of bondage, I try to help those who have become its victims. I do not understand how you could have misunderstood my efforts to help you to such an extent that think of me as a potential proselyte.

 

[Watchman22]

Hmmm... God put you in my lap because He wants me? And to find Him I must choose to follow you? Are you the leader of a cult or something like that? Please identify exactly what group you belong to.

Ah, I thought you were different.

I'm still rooting for you.

Bye nliC.

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Ah, I thought you were different.

I'm still rooting for you.

Bye nliC.

When a person builds his house on the Rock, it stands no matter what comes against it.

When you say things like "And He took that life and today put it in your lap because He obviously wants and loves you. I just hope you'll give it the consideration it deserves.", it insinuates that the intimate personal relationship that I have with the Lord God who lives in my heart, 1) is not real, 2) is with someone else (like the devil), 3) and is really a wide path leading to destruction.

You understand my adverse reaction to that, right?

 

[Watchman22]

When a person builds his house on the Rock, it stands no matter what comes against it.

When you say things like "And He took that life and today put it in your lap because He obviously wants and loves you. I just hope you'll give it the consideration it deserves.", it insinuates that the intimate personal relationship that I have with the Lord God who lives in my heart, 1) is not real, 2) is with someone else (like the devil), 3) and is really a wide path leading to destruction.

You understand my adverse reaction to that, right?

My responsibility stops at pointing out the stumbling block that most of the church world is tripping over, you included.

Maybe I should just leave it at that and walk away. But I care about all the called out ones, and I understand that all the members here are called out ones by the Father.

But going beyond my responsibility never seems to reap what I'm hoping for.

Case in point. You have been the recipient of alot of the blessings God has given me, and your response is to seemingly set a trap for me to break the forum rules, even supporting that trap with satan for bait?

I have a place for those I discern their hearts are to hardened to get into. I think maybe I was wrong about yours and you should join the others who need tenderizing.

I tend to not stay in one place very long for the obvious reasons . Our time was always going to be short, you should have used it wiser. More than likely you won't have access to this information again.

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

My responsibility stops at pointing out the stumbling block that most of the church world is tripping over, you included.

Maybe I should just leave it at that and walk away. But I care about all the called out ones, and I understand that all the members here are called out ones by the Father.

But going beyond my responsibility never seems to reap what I'm hoping for.

Case in point. You have been the recipient of alot of the blessings God has given me, and your response is to seemingly set a trap for me to break the forum rules, even supporting that trap with satan for bait?

I have a place for those I discern their hearts are to hardened to get into. I think maybe I was wrong about yours and you should join the others who need tenderizing.

I tend to not stay in one place very long for the obvious reasons . Our time was always going to be short, you should have used it wiser. More than likely you won't have access to this information again.

The problem is that there is no hidden meaning in the Greek word for faith that unlocks secrets without which people stumble. The word itself is well known. But your group has taken an obscure reference in Vines and has created a theological view of salvation around that definition that in my view is man-centered instead of Christ centered. That theology is similar to other works-based theologies that put the onus of either gaining salvation or maintaining salvation on people -- specifically on their commitment up front or their follow-through after salvation.

The most popular Protestant version of this is Lordship Salvation which requires a promise to follow Jesus as Lord up front and a life consistent with that commitment to demonstrate that the original commitment was genuine. Except for the discussions over the definition of faith, this looks to me to be virtually identical to your doctrine. It is ironic that you could adopt the well-accepted meaning of faith and keep your theological view of salvation.

This forum, and others, is a place where we debate theology, soteriology, etc. Hardly ever do we agree 100% with one another. On occasion we run into people who say, "I'm just telling you what the Bible says. If you disagree with me then you are disagreeing with the Bible." That is a logical falacy because nothing says their view of the Bible is correct. But it is rare, very rare, to see people argue that their point of view is so necessary to agree with that everyone who does not receive it has a hard heart and is on the broad road that leads to destruction. This kind of view is hard to deal with, especially when there can be no solid debate on the theology or the basis for that theology.