Romans 13:11-14

[MikkoAinasoja]

11. And this, knowing the season, that already it is time for you to awake out of sleep: for now is salvation nearer to us than when we first believed. 12. The night is far spent, and the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light. 13. Let us walk becomingly, as in the day; not in revelling and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and jealousy. 14. But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof. (Romans 13:11-14)

 

[KennethC]

Yes another good scripture from the Apostle Paul telling people they need to wake up and come out of their sinful ways and come out of the false teachings they are walking in.

One of those many fallacies is the teaching that salvation/eternal life is an immediate physical possession of ours at day one of belief. But that is exactly the opposite of what Apostle Paul is showing here, as he is showing salvation gets closer each day after the first moment of belief as we continue to walk in the faith.

 

[Elin]

11. And this, knowing the season, that already it is time for you to awake out of sleep: for now is salvation nearer to us than when we first believed.
12. The night is far spent, and the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light.
13. Let us walk becomingly, as in the day; not in revelling and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and jealousy. 14. But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof. (Romans 13:11-14)

Yes another good scripture from the Apostle Paul telling people they need to wake up and come out of their sinful ways and
come out of the false teachings they are walking in.

One of those many fallacies is the teaching that salvation/eternal life is an immediate physical possession of ours at day one of belief. But that is exactly the opposite of what Apostle Paul is showing here, as he is showing salvation gets closer each day after the first moment of belief as we continue to walk in the faith.

The fallacy is yours.

There are three phases of salvation:
past = justification
present = sanctification
future = glorification

Paul is referring to our future salvation at the coming of Christ.

 

[phil112]

Yes another good scripture from the Apostle Paul telling people they need to wake up and come out of their sinful ways and come out of the false teachings they are walking in.

One of those many fallacies is the teaching that salvation/eternal life is an immediate physical possession of ours at day one of belief. But that is exactly the opposite of what Apostle Paul is showing here, as he is showing salvation gets closer each day after the first moment of belief as we continue to walk in the faith.

You don't hope for something you already possess.

Romans 8:24 "For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?"
Titus 1:2 "In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began"

It is promised to us IF we remain obedient. Sinners aren't obedient. He won't take it back, no one else can take it away.
It is up to you. Your choice to cash in on the promise or select eternal damnation instead.

 

[Brother_J_BELGIUM]

11. And this, knowing the season, that already it is time for you to awake out of sleep: for now is salvation nearer to us than when we first believed. 12. The night is far spent, and the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light. 13. Let us walk becomingly, as in the day; not in revelling and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and jealousy. 14. But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof. (Romans 13:11-14)

This is one of my favorite passages in the Bible, we must stick to it!

 

[MikkoAinasoja]

Yes another good scripture from the Apostle Paul telling people they need to wake up and come out of their sinful ways and come out of the false teachings they are walking in.

One of those many fallacies is the teaching that salvation/eternal life is an immediate physical possession of ours at day one of belief. But that is exactly the opposite of what Apostle Paul is showing here, as he is showing salvation gets closer each day after the first moment of belief as we continue to walk in the faith.

It is today's false doctrine, that the salvation is our, when we say that we believe in the Lord, and many people's go lost in a doctrines of that, and you newer even do the true improve in your life, because you say that you are already saved.

You do not know God, but you say that you are saved, by him.

You should focus now in a good run, instead that you say that you have already run your run, and win.

 

[Adelaidegirl]

These are an interesting group of scriptures. If we read from verse 8 these scriptures are written to encourage us to live a holy Christian life. Verse 8 says to owe no man any thing but to love one another. Verse 9 tells us the things we need to stay away from such as adultery, stealing, coveting etc. Verse 10 tells us how to love our neighbours.

Verse 11 starts off by saying "And that knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep". And in verse 12 it says the day is at hand. Any time in the bible when it says the day is at hand it is talking about the day of the Lord, when Jesus comes back. It is basically telling us to be ready. To cast off the works of darkness and put on the armor of light. The salvation in this case is not 'being saved' but is the day of the return of Jesus. I'm sure you've heard the saying "every day is a day closer to the coming of the Lord." But the real question brought up is whether our salvation is instant when we give our life to Jesus or is it a continual process.

Romans 10:9 says "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." So if I believe that then I am saved right? John 3:16 tells us that we have everlasting life. 1 John :11-13 says God hath given us eternal life, That he who hath the son hath life and that we may KNOW that we have eternal life. It uses the present tense throughout the whole 3 verses because we are saved now, not in the future.

Does that mean once we are saved we are always saved? No. Matthew 24:13 says "But he that shall endure to the end shall be saved". We need to continue in that salvation that we have. We are not to fall asleep or get into a lifestyle of sin. We need to run the race (Hebrews 12:1) and fight the good fight,finish the course and keep the faith (2 Timothy 4:7). We are to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12) and to examine ourselves whether we be in the faith (2 Corinthians 13:5).

So rejoice! We can be confident of our salvation. But at the same time we need to make sure nothing gets in the way of our relationship with Jesus Christ as our Lord and saviour. Amen.

 

[p_rehbein]

11. And this, knowing the season, that already it is time for you to awake out of sleep: for now is salvation nearer to us than when we first believed. 12. The night is far spent, and the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light. 13. Let us walk becomingly, as in the day; not in revelling and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and jealousy. 14. But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof. (Romans 13:11-14)

Hmm............Internet?

 

[KennethC]

You don't hope for something you already possess.

Romans 8:24 "For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?"
Titus 1:2 "In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began"

It is promised to us IF we remain obedient. Sinners aren't obedient. He won't take it back, no one else can take it away.
It is up to you. Your choice to cash in on the promise or select eternal damnation instead.

Yes Apostle Paul says many times we hope for, seek for, and continue in the faith to receive eternal life, not that we already physically possess it;


1 Thessalonians 5:8
But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.


Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.




Romans 2:7
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:




1 Timothy 4:8
For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.




1 Timothy 6:12
Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.




1 Timothy 6:19
Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.




2 Timothy 2:10
Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.


Titus 1:2
In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;




Titus 3:7
That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

 

[Elin]

Yes Apostle Paul says many times we hope for, seek for, and continue in the faith
to receive eternal life, not that we already physically possess it;

Eternal life is not physical, and those who believe have it now (Jn 3:36, 5:24, 6:47) within their spirit by the rebirth.
Eternal life is also future, when it will be our only life.

1 Thessalonians 5:8
But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for
now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

2 Timothy 2:10
Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Salvation is threefold:
Past = justification at faith
Present = sanctification throughout our life
Future = glorification at the resurretion

Romans 2:7
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

1 Timothy 4:8
For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of
the life that now is, and of that which is to come.

There you have it. . .eternal life within our spirit by rebirth is now, as physical life is now;
and the eternal life which is to come will be our only life.

1 Timothy 6:12
Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

1 Timothy 6:19
Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

Titus 1:2
In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

Titus 3:7
That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Eternal life within our spirit by rebirth and physical life are both now.
Eternal life is also future when it will be our only life.

 

[sparkman]

Yes another good scripture from the Apostle Paul telling people they need to wake up and come out of their sinful ways and come out of the false teachings they are walking in.

One of those many fallacies is the teaching that salvation/eternal life is an immediate physical possession of ours at day one of belief. But that is exactly the opposite of what Apostle Paul is showing here, as he is showing salvation gets closer each day after the first moment of belief as we continue to walk in the faith.

Scripture speaks of salvation in a past, present, and future tense. This "already, but not yet" view of salvation reflects the fact that we have eternal life now, but that we have not received its fullness in terms of glorification.

The "not yet" element does not negate the "already" reality, though. I used to belong to a cult which taught this. All cults I know deny the reality that Christians possess eternal life NOW. And eternal means never ending. It is part of their control mechanism.

It's usually fearmongers that focus on the "not yet" part.

John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

This verse says it well. True believers, who have placed their full faith in Jesus Christ and the adequacy of his sacrifice on their behalf, have eternal life NOW. They are not subject to the judgment. They have went from spiritual death to spiritual life.

However, fearmongers will focus on the "not yet" verses.

 

[breno785au]

I think this is the crux of the matter

Rom 15:14 I myself am satisfied about you, my brothers, that you yourselves are full of goodness, filled with all knowledge and able to instruct one another.
Rom 15:15 But on some points I have written to you very boldly by way of reminder, because of the grace given me by God

Some people may only see verse 15

 

[KennethC]

Eternal life is not physical, and those who believe have it now (Jn 3:36, 5:24, 6:47) within their spirit by the rebirth.
Eternal life is also future, when it will be our only life.


Salvation is threefold:
Past = justification at faith
Present = sanctification throughout our life
Future = glorification at the resurretion


There you have it. . .eternal life within our spirit by rebirth is now, as physical life is now;
and the eternal life which is to come will be our only life.


Eternal life within our spirit by rebirth and physical life are both now.
Eternal life is also future when it will be our only life.

Scripture speaks of salvation in a past, present, and future tense. This "already, but not yet" view of salvation reflects the fact that we have eternal life now, but that we have not received its fullness in terms of glorification.

The "not yet" element does not negate the "already" reality, though. I used to belong to a cult which taught this. All cults I know deny the reality that Christians possess eternal life NOW. And eternal means never ending. It is part of their control mechanism.

It's usually fearmongers that focus on the "not yet" part.

John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

This verse says it well. True believers, who have placed their full faith in Jesus Christ and the adequacy of his sacrifice on their behalf, have eternal life NOW. They are not subject to the judgment. They have went from spiritual death to spiritual life.

However, fearmongers will focus on the "not yet" verses.

Nice try the both of you but the bible speaks of salvation as both a mental assurance of receiving and a future possession.

It does not speak of it as a past, present, and future tense.
You two are trying the interject the phases of faith; sanctification, justification and glorification.
These are stages in your walk in the faith, not rather or not you have salvation or not yet. As when you first believe and repent and get baptized you are sanctified. Then by walking properly in the faith you are justified, and then finally the end of your faith when we are caught up and changed into our spiritual bodies we are glorified.......

 

[breno785au]

No i think you are justified at the point of salvation. Where you have a right standing in God through Jesus, declared righteous and forgiven of all sin. Your walk is constituted of sanctification.

 

[Elin]

Nice try the both of you but the bible speaks of salvation as both a mental assurance of receiving and a future possession.

Poor Jesus, he got it wrong when he said that we have eternal life now (Jn 3:36, 5:24, 6:47), within our spirit by the rebirth into eternal life from spiritual death (no Holy Spirit life in our spirits).

Are we now going to have to debate the meaning of "have," as Clinton debated the meaning of "is"?

 

[Elin]

1 Timothy 4:8
For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of
the life that now is, and of that which is to come.

There you have it. . .eternal life within our spirit by rebirth is now, as physical life is now;
and the eternal life which is to come will be our only life.

 

[KennethC]

There you have it. . .eternal life within our spirit by rebirth is now, as physical life is now;
and the eternal life which is to come will be our only life.

The life that now is in 1 Timothy 4:8 is speaking of our physical life in the flesh, and that which is to come is speaking of eternal life.


Notice how it says godliness is profitable unto all things !!!

This is because if you walk properly in the faith it will profit how you treat others, talk to them, and in return get treated back others. The life that now is is the life we are living right now, not speaking of eternal life !!!

 

[KennethC]

No i think you are justified at the point of salvation. Where you have a right standing in God through Jesus, declared righteous and forgiven of all sin. Your walk is constituted of sanctification.

The problem is we do not have salvation yet, we have a mental assurance of receiving it which is why the Apostle Paul says we seek for, hope for, and continue in the faith to receive eternal life.

You are only forgiven of past and present sins at the first moment you put your faith in Jesus, as Peter, Paul, and John all three show only past sins were forgiven and to receive forgiveness/remission for future sins. We have to continue walking in the light (Spirit) and confess those future sins.

Also Jesus gives us an example of how repentance works by a worldly example in Luke 17:3-4, showing that repentance is not a one time thing to cover all sins....

Poor Jesus, he got it wrong when he said that we have eternal life now (Jn 3:36, 5:24, 6:47), within our spirit by the rebirth into eternal life from spiritual death (no Holy Spirit life in our spirits).

Are we now going to have to debate the meaning of "have," as Clinton debated the meaning of "is"?

Once again the key word in those scriptures you give is "believe."

4100. pisteuó (believe)
​

1. intransitive, to think to be true; to be persuaded of; to credit, place confidence in;
a. universally: the thing believed being evident from the preceding context,Matthew 24:23,(26); Mark 13:21; 1 Corinthians 11:18; with an accusative of the thing, Acts 13:41 (L T Tr WH ὁ for Rec. ᾧ), to credit, have confidence, followed by ὅτι, Acts 9:26; τίνι, to believe one's words,Mark 16:13; 1 John 4:1; τίνι ὅτι, John 4:21; τῷ ψεύδει, 2 Thessalonians 2:11; περί τίνος, ὅτι, John 9:18.
b. specifically, in a moral and religious reference, πιστεύειν is used in the N. T. of "the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of his soul"; thus it stands α. absolutely to trust in Jesus or in God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something: Matthew 8:13; Matthew 21:22; Mark 5:36; Mark 9:23;Luke 8:50; John 11:40; followed by ὅτι, Matthew 9:28; Mark 11:23; (Hebrews 11:6); τῷ λόγῳ, ᾧ (ὅν) εἶπεν ὁ Ἰησοῦς, John 4:50. β. ofthe credence given to God's messengers and their words, with a dative of the person or thing: Μωϋσεῖ John 5:46. to the prophets, John 12:38; Acts 24:14; Acts 26:27; Romans 10:16; ἐπί πᾶσιν οἷς
John 3:15 in γ. below)). γ. used especially of the faith by which a man embraces Jesus, i. e. "a conviction, full of joyful trust, that Jesus is the Messiah — the divinely appointed author of eternal salvation in the kingdom of God, conjoined with obedience to Christ": πιστεύω τόν υἱόν τοῦ Θεοῦ εἶναι ἸησοῦνΧριστόν,



I could go on but the main point of pisteuo (believe) is to put faith and trust in Jesus in helping us to obtain salvation by our obedience to Him. It is Jesus who has the gift of eternal life for us, and by out continuing in the faith we abide in Christ and have that assurance that we have eternal life abiding in us. It however does not actually become a physical possession tell we are caught up and transformed into our uncorruptable spiritual bodies, because our corruptable physical bodies of flesh can not inherit the kingdom of heaven !!!