The rules are in the bible, and are simple,but some people can't hold their tongue ,or discern when to speak it.
Rules Governing The Gift Of Tongues
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Often times a silver tongue is a silent one and a golden tongue speaks few words.
If one has the gift I would think they would only use it when God leads them to otherwise it won't hold his power in it, and in that case what is the point? the Gifts aren't for us it's for God to reach the hearts of others
The context because the one verse left it open as to what were tongues were a sign, with everyone know that the next verse saying if and unbeliever comes in and you are all speaking in tongues, they would r u uotcha mine? That's why the text. One other thing, since it seems like you didn't like my full explanation. Going into the children of Abraham according to the promise and who isn't. I thought it was common knowledge, and since we are talking common, you would be surprised at how uncommon, common sense is.
I didn't know everyone here, as a matter of fact I don't know anyone here, so I don't know who know what, but since the question was asked and the surprise or reminder of that one verse. I thought I would share what I see in the text. That is the idea of asking a question or starting a thread, isn't it? While sharing my experience in the Pentecostal church, which for me was not a good one. I almost for got, I mentioned Acts 2 and how those Jews were saved, so I was not living them out, what I said was directed to those Jews that rejected Jesus.
I don't think this is out of balance to discuss. It just happens to be the topic in this thread. Not that it's more important but it's one of many topics worth discussing. And for sure there is no reason to quarrel over it.
S
sevenseas
Guest
as I said, I have heard 'your' interpretation before and I do not agree with it
that's all.
see, I sense some attitude in your responses (example above) so if you don't mean it that way, maybe tone it down
continue as you were.
S
sevenseas
Guest
well that is not really so
Paul gives detailed instruction on the use of tongues. thing is, many people refuse to see that and nix everything
that is their loss and their problem
S
sevenseas
Guest
I don't think this is out of balance to discuss. It just happens to be the topic in this thread. Not that it's more important but it's one of many topics worth discussing. And for sure there is no reason to quarrel over it.
and the clincher is that weber is the one that started this thread SPECIFICALLY about tongues
so, like, whatever dude LOL!
you seldom see anything other than people wanting to discuss tongues or the prophetic gifts.
I don't think I have seen anyone start a thread on say teaching as a gift, or helps as a gift (nobody wants helps)
another hot ticket one would be discerning of spirits. fur flies when that comes up as well
I think the problem many people have is that the "tongue speakers" sometimes act as if they are in some kind of exclusive "club" of extra-spiritual people... Not that it's said in so many words, but it is implied.
As far as other folks belittling tongues as unimportant, it was actually Paul that said it was one of the least desirable of the gifts. And he went on to say that while "gifts" are a good thing, the BEST thing, or the best way was to develop your love for others.
Not everyone "has" the gift of tongues, nor should we expect everyone to have it....and I believe there is far too much emphasis put on it, as if it is some type of proof that you have "arrived" spiritually.
The gifts of the Spirit are given by the Spirit, to each Christian.... as the Spirit deems necessary. I believe that the gifts are given as personal "booster shots" for our growth and maturity. If I'm given the gift of teaching, it's not only because I have a way with words, so to speak, but that I NEED to grow and help edify the body in that direction. My gift is not given to me only so I can benefit others, but it is also given as a benefit to ME.
Implying that we ALL should have the gift of tongues is wrong, in my understanding... just as it would be wrong to say that we all should have the gift of teaching...
As far as other folks belittling tongues as unimportant, it was actually Paul that said it was one of the least desirable of the gifts. And he went on to say that while "gifts" are a good thing, the BEST thing, or the best way was to develop your love for others.
Not everyone "has" the gift of tongues, nor should we expect everyone to have it....and I believe there is far too much emphasis put on it, as if it is some type of proof that you have "arrived" spiritually.
The gifts of the Spirit are given by the Spirit, to each Christian.... as the Spirit deems necessary. I believe that the gifts are given as personal "booster shots" for our growth and maturity. If I'm given the gift of teaching, it's not only because I have a way with words, so to speak, but that I NEED to grow and help edify the body in that direction. My gift is not given to me only so I can benefit others, but it is also given as a benefit to ME.
Implying that we ALL should have the gift of tongues is wrong, in my understanding... just as it would be wrong to say that we all should have the gift of teaching...
I will also say that much of what I've seen as the "gift of tongues" is simply wrong. I have heard people say that everyone should speak in tongues, and that all you need is to be "taught" how to do it. "Just open your mouth and start speaking.. the Spirit will put words in your mouth"..... This is simply so much babbling... making noise.
If the Spirit gives you the gift of tongues, it won't be because you practiced it.... and you won't NEED to practice it. You will simply start speaking, or praying. I imagine it would come as a surprise to many people.
How many people have to practice the gift of prophecy? Is there some sort of internship, where some of what you prophesy is true, and some isn't? "don't worry about it, you're still learning.... you'll get better at it..."
If the Spirit gives you the gift of tongues, it won't be because you practiced it.... and you won't NEED to practice it. You will simply start speaking, or praying. I imagine it would come as a surprise to many people.
How many people have to practice the gift of prophecy? Is there some sort of internship, where some of what you prophesy is true, and some isn't? "don't worry about it, you're still learning.... you'll get better at it..."
Hi thanks for the reply. My two cents
Building up our one self would seem to a recipe for pride. After all what do we have if we do have if God has not freely given it? And if He has why would we boast as if he did not?
I would agree in that way we are to offer by faith our bodies as a living sacrifice in lieu of His great mercy in hope of eternal life. Something I need to improve in needing prayer. But that is in respect to our necessary food to sustain these bodies of death. But as Christ says: he has food that we know not of, as the food of the doing the Father will,
But he said unto them, I have meat to eat that ye know not of.Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat?Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work. oh 4:32
In that way we have two kinds of necessary foods. Literal bread as that seen for these bodies of death and the daily bread spoken of as a request or prayer that we might do His will on earth. Both kinds are necessary.
Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. Mat 6:10
There is an interesting revelation from God in the book of Job 23 that I believe helps us to understand what I am trying to offer as an opinion more adequately.
Job 23:11 My foot hath held his steps, his way have I kept, and not declined. Neither have I gone back from the commandment of his lips; I have esteemed the words of his mouth more than my necessary food. (Literal bread for these bodies that will die) But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth. For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.Therefore am I troubled at his presence: when I consider, I am afraid of him. For God maketh my heart soft, and the Almighty troubleth me:Job 23:11-16
Literal bread cannot perform making our hearts soft, Belly yes, new hearts no
I think the parable below that was offered to again teach the disciples the kind food they did not know of.
And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. Mar 7:18
Did you mean speaking (prophecy) in tongues to edify his own one self or edify the whole church who would understand the prophecy, the word of God?
Are you suggesting the church should rejoice that a person has build them self up when the person tells them he did speak in tongues? Some churches pray a person does and would rejoice in that way .But what are they really building up seeing they would be walking by sight, and not the faith (the unseen) that alone comes from hearing through the scriptures? Could it be false doctrine?
Building up our personal one self or the body of Christ.?
Building up our one self would seem to a recipe for pride. After all what do we have if we do have if God has not freely given it? And if He has why would we boast as if he did not?
I would agree in that way we are to offer by faith our bodies as a living sacrifice in lieu of His great mercy in hope of eternal life. Something I need to improve in needing prayer. But that is in respect to our necessary food to sustain these bodies of death. But as Christ says: he has food that we know not of, as the food of the doing the Father will,
But he said unto them, I have meat to eat that ye know not of.Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat?Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work. oh 4:32
In that way we have two kinds of necessary foods. Literal bread as that seen for these bodies of death and the daily bread spoken of as a request or prayer that we might do His will on earth. Both kinds are necessary.
Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. Mat 6:10
There is an interesting revelation from God in the book of Job 23 that I believe helps us to understand what I am trying to offer as an opinion more adequately.
Job 23:11 My foot hath held his steps, his way have I kept, and not declined. Neither have I gone back from the commandment of his lips; I have esteemed the words of his mouth more than my necessary food. (Literal bread for these bodies that will die) But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth. For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.Therefore am I troubled at his presence: when I consider, I am afraid of him. For God maketh my heart soft, and the Almighty troubleth me:Job 23:11-16
Literal bread cannot perform making our hearts soft, Belly yes, new hearts no
I think the parable below that was offered to again teach the disciples the kind food they did not know of.
And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. Mar 7:18
Did you mean speaking (prophecy) in tongues to edify his own one self or edify the whole church who would understand the prophecy, the word of God?
Are you suggesting the church should rejoice that a person has build them self up when the person tells them he did speak in tongues? Some churches pray a person does and would rejoice in that way .But what are they really building up seeing they would be walking by sight, and not the faith (the unseen) that alone comes from hearing through the scriptures? Could it be false doctrine?
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this is an interesting point of view .
What did Paul mean in 2Tim 1:6-7?
[FONT="]Second Timothy 1:6-7 (MEV) says, "Therefore I remind you to stir up the gift of God, which is in you by the laying on of my hands. For God has not given us the spirit of fear, but of power, and love, and self-control."[/FONT]
and far as practice goes do we not practice our faith? every gift of God you either use it or you don't. Preaching is a gift does one preach only when they want to ? or maybe studying the word of God to provide a preacher with context to the preaching.
there are many thing's we are told to do . Our opinion of them cannot be authoritative .
But what does the Word of God say?.
Matt 7:24
“Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.
Luke 8:21 Jesus speaking:
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[TD]He replied, “My mother and brothers are those who hear God's word and put it into practice.”
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE="width: 608"]
[TR]
[TD]He replied, “My mother and brothers are those who hear God's word and put it into practice.”
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
We are told to Obey, do, listen , study, hear , act, work, and use.
The gifts of God are given but we use them. and yes practice them , stir them up, allow God to develop them.
doctor's work is known as a practice. I disagree with your point , as I too think the word of God says differently.
Weren't there schools of prophecy in the OT?
Not that I've attended one anywhere. I have always wondered what is taught though.
Not that I've attended one anywhere. I have always wondered what is taught though.
I agree with you point " some kind of exclusive "club" of extra-spiritual people..."
But those who do that are immature and unlearned . I do not think throwing out the baby with the bath water is good either. Paul comment about tongues where not that it was least desirable gifts .
1cor 14:1
Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif], but rather that ye may prophesy. the word gifts is plural not singular . that means desire tongues too.
Paul said "[/FONT]I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif] he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif] I would want all to speak in Tongues is what he just said . Prophesying is a greater gift Paul said not that Tongues is less desirable. Paul would not say such a thing about the Holy Spirits gifts.
you have to read the full context of chapter 14 not just one verse.
but though the whole chapter he corrects , instructs on how the gifts are to be used all of them. but he only mentions Prophesying and tongues.
Paul sayes in chapter 14 I thank God I speak in tongues more than you all.
Paul said [/FONT]If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
Paul said :Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
Let all things be done decently and in order.
no where is Paul saying tongues are not to be used . no where. He is teaching those on how they are to be used and not to misuse them. and IF you use them as the Holy Spirit enables you do so in LOVE.
they had a very good way of telling if you were a Prophet :
if what you said did not happen they stoned you .
The other aspect to the private devotional side of tongues where our spirit is speaking mysteries to the Father. 1 Cor 14:2 - is that this is according to "our will".
Can we as an act of our will pray with our mind? whatever answer we come up with in that applies to praying with my spirit.
1 Corinthians 14:14-15 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] What is the outcome then? I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with the mind also; I will sing with the spirit and I will sing with the mind also.
I will is involved with both types of praying.
Can we as an act of our will pray with our mind? whatever answer we come up with in that applies to praying with my spirit.
1 Corinthians 14:14-15 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] What is the outcome then? I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with the mind also; I will sing with the spirit and I will sing with the mind also.
I will is involved with both types of praying.
If/when this occurs, it is due to immaturity on the part of those who believe there is some sort of exclusive "club" to which they belong.hornetguy said:
Yeah, some people bring that up as if the gift is of no value. I consider whatever gift God gives is something to hold as extremely valuable.hornetguy said:
What if tongues was the gift God gave to you, hornetguy? When someone comes up to you and tells you "well, that's the least of the gifts", are you then going to turn to God and tell Him to take it back? Or are you going to use the gift faithfully and speak in tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance?
Just something to ponder ...
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In other words: there are charismatics out and about blabbering
incoherently because they choose to, rather than because they have to.
Now why on earth would a grown-up prefer incoherent blabbering? Isn't that
the way small children communicate? Well, small children I can excuse
because they're uneducated. But shouldn't supposed educated adults be just
a bit more mature with their language and grammar than small children?
● 1 Cor 14:20 . . Brothers, stop thinking like children. In regard to evil be
infants, but in your thinking be adults.
Well; Paul was too kind. Left up to me I'd describe deliberate tonguers as
retarded.
/
In other words: there are charismatics out and about blabbering
incoherently because they choose to, rather than because they have to.
Now why on earth would a grown-up prefer incoherent blabbering? Isn't that
the way small children communicate? Well, small children I can excuse
because they're uneducated. But shouldn't supposed educated adults be just
a bit more mature with their language and grammar than small children?
● 1 Cor 14:20 . . Brothers, stop thinking like children. In regard to evil be
infants, but in your thinking be adults.
Well; Paul was too kind. Left up to me I'd describe deliberate tonguers as
retarded.
/
Timothy's gift that was to be stirred up was the gift of preaching and teaching Gods word. It is the command given to all believers.
Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
For the cause of Christ
Roger