Sabbath

[Duckybill]

The Commandments/laws (Including the Sabbath) were not only for Israel...

Leviticus 24:22

Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for I am the Lord your God.

Exodus 12:49

A single law exists for the native and the alien who resides among you.

Exodus 20:8-10

“Remember the Sabbath day, maintaining its holiness. 9 Six days you are to labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. You are not to do any work—neither you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your livestock, nor any foreigner who lives among you.

Romans 2:6-11

6 For he will repay everyone according to what that person has done: 7 eternal life to those who strive for glory, honor, and immortality by patiently doing good; 8 but wrath and fury for those who in their selfish pride refuse to believe the truth and practice wickedness instead. 9 There will be suffering and anguish for every human being who practices doing evil, for Jews first and for Greeks as well. 10 But there will be glory, honor, and peace for everyone who practices doing good, initially for Jews but also for Greeks as well, 11 because God does not show partiality.

Psalm 147:19-20 (NKJV)
19 He declares His word to Jacob, His statutes and His judgments to Israel. 20 He has not dealt thus with any nation; And as for His judgments, they have not known them. Praise the LORD!

Do you really believe in executing people for working weekends? I don't. It's a COMMAND in the same Law you're preaching.

Exodus 31:15 (NKJV)
15 Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

 

[MalikB]

you should join the Hebrew roots movement.

they push Sabbath keeping for salvation just like you do.

I do believe that some people dealing with "Hebrew roots" or Messianic Judaism are closer to the truth than modern day Christianity... But any organization has the ability to be blinded by tradition and prepackaged ideologies. I wouldn't be surprised though if your assessment of them is just as off as your assessment of me.

Like I've said many times here... We keep the Sabbath out of love, honor, respect, and trust in our Father that He knows what's best. Our works is a reflection of our faith. We will fall short no matter what and still require Grace for our salvation....

...You are a horrible translator if you think that is the same thing as pushing Sabbath keeping FOR salvation.

 

[gb9]

I do believe that some people dealing with "Hebrew roots" or Messianic Judaism are closer to the truth than modern day Christianity... But any organization has the ability to be blinded by tradition and prepackaged ideologies. I wouldn't be surprised though if your assessment of them is just as off as your assessment of me.

Like I've said many times here... We keep the Sabbath out of love, honor, respect, and trust in our Father that He knows what's best. Our works is a reflection of our faith. We will fall short no matter what and still require Grace for our salvation....

...You are a horrible translator if you think that is the same thing as pushing Sabbath keeping FOR salvation.

nope. it is a very simple translation- either Sabbath keeping for modern Christians is a requirement, or it is a option, left up to each individual .

if it is required, then it is part of salvation. very simple.

 

[MalikB]

Psalm 147:19-20 (NKJV)
19 He declares His word to Jacob, His statutes and His judgments to Israel. 20 He has not dealt thus with any nation; And as for His judgments, they have not known them. Praise the LORD!

Do you really believe in executing people for working weekends? I don't. It's a COMMAND in the same Law you're preaching.

Exodus 31:15 (NKJV)
15 Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

Two things regarding Israel and the Psalms verse you posted...

1. All laws (instructions from the Father) are not for all people at all times. 2. If you were a stranger and ended up being excepted amongst the nation and kept the Fathers laws, you were considered "Israel" as well.


Exodus 31:15 is a penalty for breaking law... not the law itself. The messiah's body paid the penalty for sin (breaking law).... this is why these earthly penalties no longer apply.

 

[posthuman]

That may not seem like the message to you... but no, I don't consider answering emails "God's work". The examples we have been given are... feeding hungry people, healing and pulling an ox out of a ditch. We also have have an example of that which is holy (set apart by God) being mixed with mans work (E.G. making money) with the money changers being thrown out of the temple by the Messiah.

We also have going 2 miles with a pagan who forces you to go one.
We also have giving to anyone who asks you, without demanding it back.
We also have considering all your work as tho it is working for the Lord, even if you are a slave to an evil master.
We also have giving your cloak also to anyone who steals your tunic.
We also have showing grace to a sinner whose gotten what he deserved.

You don't get decide what God puta before you. You get to decide whether you are going to love your neighbor or look down your nose at him. You get to decide whether you are going to consider yourself better than others or consider others greater than yourself.

If you have a job because you want to make yourself rich with money then you are not any different than the moneychangers. If you aren't working to make yourself rich then whatever your boss asks you to do, it's not carnal, but service to God by making yourself the servant of others.

IMHO you do not understand sabbath.
You just talk about it.

 

[posthuman]

Maybe as a day but not as a concept. That was in Genesis 2 already

God only rested once, for all time

 

[MalikB]

nope. it is a very simple translation- either Sabbath keeping for modern Christians is a requirement, or it is a option, left up to each individual .

if it is required, then it is part of salvation. very simple.

I'm sorry that you don't understand or are just purposely ignoring what I said.

Example: Let's say I'm a person that just found out about the Sabbath today. I end up believing that according to scripture we are still instructed to keep it. Although I'm new to trying to keep it and am going to make mistakes, I decide that I'm going to start tomorrow. Unfortunately, I die in my sleep tonight and never get to carry out that law. Well in this case, the works never happened... but the faith was there and the Father knew my heart and my intentions.

As far as being "left up to the individual".... That is completely unscriptural. So we all get to decide which sins we commit and which we don't? Or is this specific for the Sabbath?

 

[gb9]

I'm sorry that you don't understand or are just purposely ignoring what I said.

Example: Let's say I'm a person that just found out about the Sabbath today. I end up believing that according to scripture we are still instructed to keep it. Although I'm new to trying to keep it and am going to make mistakes, I decide that I'm going to start tomorrow. Unfortunately, I die in my sleep tonight and never get to carry out that law. Well in this case, the works never happened... but the faith was there and the Father knew my heart and my intentions.

As far as being "left up to the individual".... That is completely unscriptural. So we all get to decide which sins we commit and which we don't? Or is this specific for the Sabbath?

and this is the never ending roundabout- gentiles were never commanded to keep the Sabbath.

you will come back and say we were, and we are back to the start...

 

[MalikB]

We also have going 2 miles with a pagan who forces you to go one.
We also have giving to anyone who asks you, without demanding it back.
We also have considering all your work as tho it is working for the Lord, even if you are a slave to an evil master.
We also have giving your cloak also to anyone who steals your tunic.
We also have showing grace to a sinner whose gotten what he deserved.

You don't get decide what God puta before you. You get to decide whether you are going to love your neighbor or look down your nose at him. You get to decide whether you are going to consider yourself better than others or consider others greater than yourself.

If you have a job because you want to make yourself rich with money then you are not any different than the moneychangers. If you aren't working to make yourself rich then whatever your boss asks you to do, it's not carnal, but service to God by making yourself the servant of others.

IMHO you do not understand sabbath.
You just talk about it.

I've already addressed the "2 mile" scripture being in the same chapter as the law being "until heaven and earth disappear" and how doing and teaching law/commandments or not effects our place in heaven.... according to the Messiah. Heaven and earth do not disappear until Revelation 21:1.

IMHO... All you're doing is pulling idioms out of scripture to support lawlessness.


Mathew 24:11-12

11 Many false prophets will appear and deceive many people, 12 and because lawlessness will increase, the love of many people will grow cold.


Revelation 22:14

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

 

[MalikB]

and this is the never ending roundabout- gentiles were never commanded to keep the Sabbath.

you will come back and say we were, and we are back to the start...

I will stick to what the Messiah says... You can stick to following your church.

 

[Duckybill]

Romans 14:4-6 (NKJV)
4 Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand. 5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it.

No Sabbath commands in the NT.

 

[Duckybill]

Two things regarding Israel and the Psalms verse you posted...

1. All laws (instructions from the Father) are not for all people at all times. 2. If you were a stranger and ended up being excepted amongst the nation and kept the Fathers laws, you were considered "Israel" as well.

Exodus 31:15 is a penalty for breaking law... not the law itself. The messiah's body paid the penalty for sin (breaking law).... this is why these earthly penalties no longer apply.

The Sabbath COMMANDS were in the Law of Moses. Christians have never been under the Law. Do you obey all the Law of Moses? Or do you pick and choose?

Galatians 3:10 (NKJV)
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them."

 

[posthuman]

I will stick to what the Messiah says... You can stick to following your church.

The Messiah never told anyone to keep sabbath. He worked every sabbath. The pharisees attacked Him for it.

Which one are you, in this story?
And yet the sun is set and I remember sabbath now, without commanding anyone to, without being under any law to do so, but completely by freewill.
And anyone who asks of me, I will work for, not as though to men but as to God: it is lawful to do good on sabbath, and I do my employer evil if I refuse him.

I have nothing to say if you keep sabbath. But you are in obvious error if you command anyone else to, and if you judge anyone over it you are in sin

 

[posthuman]

Blessed are they that do his commandments

Matthew 5:40-42
If anyone would sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.

sabbath is not an an excuse to disobey His commandments.

 

[MalikB]

Romans 14:4-6 (NKJV)
4 Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand. 5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it.

No Sabbath commands in the NT.

I've addressed Romans 14 three times on here...

"The context in Romans 14 is FASTING. People were being judged based on what days they fasted and what foods they did or didn't eat during those times.... They were being judged based off of mans law, not God's law. Other than the day of atonement, Gods law does not require that we fast on specific days. This verse is not saying anything about not having to keep the Sabbath

Many people are not open to looking outside of the bible for answers, but I believe it can be very useful for helping to understand context and culture. I believe Josephus (and others) has some writings about antiquities and the big fasting debates at the time of these scriptures.

These again were people that were KEEPING THE LAW, and Paul was saying don't let others judge you for doing so."

 

[Duckybill]

I've addressed Romans 14 three times on here...

"The context in Romans 14 is FASTING. People were being judged based on what days they fasted and what foods they did or didn't eat during those times.... They were being judged based off of mans law, not God's law. Other than the day of atonement, Gods law does not require that we fast on specific days. This verse is not saying anything about not having to keep the Sabbath

Many people are not open to looking outside of the bible for answers, but I believe it can be very useful for helping to understand context and culture. I believe Josephus (and others) has some writings about antiquities and the big fasting debates at the time of these scriptures.

These again were people that were KEEPING THE LAW, and Paul was saying don't let others judge you for doing so."

They were executing gays, adulterers, and those who work on weekends? I don't think so. Do you obey all the Law? Guess you missed my post #2,652.

 

[MalikB]

The Messiah never told anyone to keep sabbath. He worked every sabbath. The pharisees attacked Him for it.

Which one are you, in this story?
And yet the sun is set and I remember sabbath now, without commanding anyone to, without being under any law to do so, but completely by freewill.
And anyone who asks of me, I will work for, not as though to men but as to God: it is lawful to do good on sabbath, and I do my employer evil if I refuse him.

I have nothing to say if you keep sabbath. But you are in obvious error if you command anyone else to, and if you judge anyone over it you are in sin

If you show an example in scripture of the Messiah doing WORLDLY work on the Sabbath, please let me know. The Messiah did God's work (healing, feeding the hungry, etc)... He did not do man's work (materialistic, personal gain, buying and selling). Why was the Messiah so upset with the money changers in the temple???

 

[Duckybill]

If you show an example in scripture of the Messiah doing WORLDLY work on the Sabbath, please let me know. The Messiah did God's work (healing, feeding the hungry, etc)... He did not do man's work (materialistic, personal gain, buying and selling). Why was the Messiah so upset with the money changers in the temple???

Jesus' disciples were working on the Sabbath and Jesus was with them. Working on the Sabbath was DEATH! They didn't know that?

 

[MalikB]

They were executing gays, adulterers, and those who work on weekends? I don't think so. Do you obey all the Law? Guess you missed my post #2,652.

You will remain lost if you continue to be ignorant of the context of the scriptures you are pulling from to support your ideology. Again, the context of Romans 14 is Fasting... and people were being judged unrighteously for how and when they decided to fast.

Do I keep law perfectly... of course not. I thank the Father for his Grace because none of us are worthy. As I learn more about the law I put more effort into trying to keep it.

 

[MalikB]

Jesus' disciples were working on the Sabbath and Jesus was with them. Working on the Sabbath was DEATH! They didn't know that?

I've explained many times there is a big difference between God's work and mans work... You can scroll back through my posts if you care to.