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Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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Well, in that case, you're going to be waiting for a while. I am not known for being responsive when given assignments.
I’m alright with you not responding seems just an impending argument wothoit fruit to be had . I do nOt mean this as a dig at you im just saying let’s part ways in peace I’m okay with that
 

Pilgrimshope

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I cannot say where Judas' eternal condition is. Jesus said let the dead bury the dead. I leave those who have crossed over in the hands of God.
Amen indeed

“For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living. But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

judas too. even though we know what was said of him by the lord .God has foreknowledge he sees from the beginning the outcome he knew Judas would betray him beforehand he didn’t cause it Judas did that all his own from greed
 

FollowerofShiloh

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Jan 24, 2024
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You think you are saving people eternally by preaching to them, and that is a false doctrine. you must be born again before you can hear and believe the gospel.
A preacher like Peter is doing preaching is merely sharing the Gospel. It's the hearing the Gospel that Paul writes causes Faith so people hearing can believe in what is preached. Whether you like it or not, that's hard core Biblical Truth. Hearing the Gospel brings Faith to believe. But you cannot hear until someone preaches.
 

FollowerofShiloh

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Jan 24, 2024
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Eternal salvation=deliverance, according to Strong's concordance. The only people that Christ died for are those that His Father called, and gave to Him (John 6:37-39). Christ's sacrifice was an offering to God, for God's acceptance. It was not an offering to mankind for their acceptance.
37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

...will come to me/whoever comes to me.

How do people come to Christ without literally doing what the word "coming to" actually means?

That's participation on the persons part to come.
 

Foghorn

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Of course Judas Iscarioy was drawn to jesus by the Father. "No one could come to Jesus unless the Father who sent Him drew him", and Judas Iscariot came to Jesus many times.

Matt. 10:1; Mark 3:13-19; Like 6:12-- 16 And when He had called to Him His twelve disciples...

Matt. 17:19 Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, "Why could we not cast it out?"

Matt. 26:49 And forthwith [Judas Iscariot] came to Jesus , and said, "hail Master," and kissed Him.

Luke 9:10 And the apostles, when they were retuned, told Him all that they had done...

70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.
John 6. Slo the son of perdition, "a devil" according to Jesus was drawn to him for salvation. Maybe you don't believe Jesus?
 

rogerg

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37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

...will come to me/whoever comes to me.

How do people come to Christ without literally doing what the word "coming to" actually means?

That's participation on the persons part to come.
Nope. Only those given to Christ by God receive eternal life.

[Jhn 17:2 KJV] 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
 

Foghorn

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A person has to be born of the Spirit before they choose to do spiritual things.
Amen.

Jesus said so himself. Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” John 3:3.

7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.” John 3:7-8.
 

Foghorn

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Nope. Only those given to Christ by God receive eternal life.

[Jhn 17:2 KJV] 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Christ in his own person is the very embodiment and fountain of salvation.

Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. 1 John 5:12.

There is only one manner in which sinners become partakers of the grace of Christ. Men receive none of the benefits of Christ's redeeming work as long as Christ is outside of them and they remain separate from Him. They must have a vital communion with him in order to have salvation. And how can it be otherwise?
Scripture speaks time and time again of Jessus' true disciples, that is those in whome the process of salvation is taking place, as being in a mystical union with Christ as close as the union which exists between a vine and branches. I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. John 15:5.

my little children, for whom I am again in the anguish of childbirth until Christ is formed in you! Gal 4:19.

I believe scripture teaches. it is quite impossible for men to enguage in any saving good unless there is a living bond between them and Him who declared: ........... for apart from me you can do nothing. John 15:5.
 

Foghorn

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Christ in his own person is the very embodiment and fountain of salvation.

Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. 1 John 5:12.

There is only one manner in which sinners become partakers of the grace of Christ. Men receive none of the benefits of Christ's redeeming work as long as Christ is outside of them and they remain separate from Him. They must have a vital communion with him in order to have salvation. And how can it be otherwise?
Scripture speaks time and time again of Jessus' true disciples, that is those in whome the process of salvation is taking place, as being in a mystical union with Christ as close as the union which exists between a vine and branches. I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. John 15:5.

my little children, for whom I am again in the anguish of childbirth until Christ is formed in you! Gal 4:19.

I believe scripture teaches. it is quite impossible for men to enguage in any saving good unless there is a living bond between them and Him who declared: ........... for apart from me you can do nothing. John 15:5.
Faith, hope, and love, which are the three great requisites for salvation on the part of man, all find their source in the organic fellowship established by the Holy Spirit between the Savior and the elect in the moment of regeneration, that is on the very threshold of the Christian life.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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Christ in his own person is the very embodiment and fountain of salvation.

Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. 1 John 5:12.

There is only one manner in which sinners become partakers of the grace of Christ. Men receive none of the benefits of Christ's redeeming work as long as Christ is outside of them and they remain separate from Him. They must have a vital communion with him in order to have salvation. And how can it be otherwise?
Scripture speaks time and time again of Jessus' true disciples, that is those in whome the process of salvation is taking place, as being in a mystical union with Christ as close as the union which exists between a vine and branches. I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. John 15:5.

my little children, for whom I am again in the anguish of childbirth until Christ is formed in you! Gal 4:19.

I believe scripture teaches. it is quite impossible for men to enguage in any saving good unless there is a living bond between them and Him who declared: ........... for apart from me you can do nothing. John 15:5.
I agree, Foghorn, and in addition to that, as its prerequisite, and as Jhn 17:2 tells us, only those whom the Father gave to the Son can/will partake of it.
 

Foghorn

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Faith, hope, and love, which are the three great requisites for salvation on the part of man, all find their source in the organic fellowship established by the Holy Spirit between the Savior and the elect in the moment of regeneration, that is on the very threshold of the Christian life.
And again, it must be said that it is the mystical union with Christ, which maintains faith, hope, and love in the hearts of God's people since it is out of the fullness of Christ that they receive even grace for grace. For from his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace. John 1:16.
 

Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

...will come to me/whoever comes to me.

How do people come to Christ without literally doing what the word "coming to" actually means?

That's participation on the persons part to come.
I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. ( Jesus baptism )

Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, And the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. ( John 3:35)


Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; Thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: Be instructed, ye judges of the earth. Serve the LORD with fear, And rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, When his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭2:7-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:27-30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:51‬ ‭
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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You can't? Do you disagree with Jesus?
What did Jesus say or where did Jesus say Judas is in hell for eternality.


we see Jesus said here:

Mark 14:18-21
And as they were reclining at table and eating, Jesus said, “Truly, I say to you, one of you will betray me, one who is eating with me.” They began to be sorrowful and to say to him one after another, “Is it I?” He said to them, “It is one of the twelve, one who is dipping bread into the dish with me. For the Son of Man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born.”


I don't see where is says Judas went to hell or is in hell.
 

Foghorn

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What did Jesus say or where did Jesus say Judas is in hell for eternality.


we see Jesus said here:

Mark 14:18-21
And as they were reclining at table and eating, Jesus said, “Truly, I say to you, one of you will betray me, one who is eating with me.” They began to be sorrowful and to say to him one after another, “Is it I?” He said to them, “It is one of the twelve, one who is dipping bread into the dish with me. For the Son of Man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born.”


I don't see where is says Judas went to hell or is in hell.
Did Jesus not say he was the son of perdition?
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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Did Jesus not say he was the son of perdition?
Judas did have a devil enter him. Are you saying he could not repent? Are you saying those who have not died and have a devil can't be delivered? The Point is you can't say where Judas is Because the word of God doesn't say where he is, does it?
 

Foghorn

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Judas did have a devil enter him. Are you saying he could not repent? Are you saying those who have not died and have a devil can't be delivered? The Point is you can't say where Judas is Because the word of God doesn't say where he is, does it?
I'm saying he is a son of perdition. Why say more?
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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I'm saying he is a son of perdition. Why say more?
If you read Greek the word
Perdition" is apōleia is applicable with one who is to die. Because of the love of money, Judas was a ruin. The fact he could be in hell, he very well maybe, YET we can't say he was because the word of God doesn't say he was, Nor did Jesus. But you know more. :)
 

PaulThomson

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Oct 29, 2023
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70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve. John 6. Slo the son of perdition, "a devil" according to Jesus was drawn to him for salvation. Maybe you don't believe Jesus?
Do tou know what the word "come" means? Define "come". I'm betting there's a special non-dictionary meaning of "come" that you are reading into the Bible to make verses using the word fit and appear to teach your pet doctrines.