Salvation is a Free Gift.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,207
6,608
113
62
Felix heard the Gospel and it scared him enough that he trembled. But he still had the freewill choice to accept it or reject it. Felix put it off. If you deny that, you are indeed calvinistic in your doctrine.
Felix had his conscience pricked by Paul. He did not have His heart pricked by the Spirit.

I'm not sure you know what a Calvinist is.
 

Shepherd

Active member
May 11, 2022
248
82
28
Basically a calvinist believes that God chose a certain number of "elect" from the beginning of time, No one is able to believe and be saved, but God enables those certain people to believe and be saved, and when He does, His grace cannot be resisted, Of course there are a few more beliefs too. Is that how you believe?
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,207
6,608
113
62
Basically a calvinist believes that God chose a certain number of "elect" from the beginning of time, No one is able to believe and be saved, but God enables those certain people to believe and be saved, and when He does, His grace cannot be resisted, Of course there are a few more beliefs too. Is that how you believe?
I certainly believe God enables salvation. How can a person described in Romans 3 seek after God apart from His enablement.

But that wasn't my point Someone who is an "ist" has to follow whoever or whatever the "ist" is attached to. I'm a Jesusist.
 

Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
2,977
972
113
44
You have no idea what I "think", "believe" or anything else.
So quit pretending to have ESP and can read my mind.

And no, you did not address the questions offered either.
Well if it's not, then I guess you're arguing with me for no reason, so either way no need to "teach" me anymore. Have a great day.
 

Shepherd

Active member
May 11, 2022
248
82
28
I certainly believe God enables salvation. How can a person described in Romans 3 seek after God apart from His enablement.

But that wasn't my point Someone who is an "ist" has to follow whoever or whatever the "ist" is attached to. I'm a Jesusist.
Do you believe that God only enables those he elected from before the foundation of the world?
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
3,673
571
113
Basically a calvinist believes that God chose a certain number of "elect" from the beginning of time, No one is able to believe and be saved, but God enables those certain people to believe and be saved, and when He does, His grace cannot be resisted, Of course there are a few more beliefs too. Is that how you believe?
Wouldn't that be the "by grace" part of Eph 2:8?
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
4,321
714
113
A spiritually dead person can hear the Gospel but he cant hear it with Spiritual discernment and understanding 2 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
How does it feel to be so incredibly impotent and not been able to change the minds of anyone who knows how you twist scripture?


Why do you keep ignoring the verse before 2:14?

Verse 13 which things we also speak not in words taught by human wisdom, but in words taught by the Spirit explaining spiritual things to spiritual men.

That is NOT PREACHING the Gospel, it's explaining Spiritual things that verse 14 cannot understand.

So the Gospel preached is different and can be understood by ALL WHO HEAR.
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
4,321
714
113
Do you believe that God only enables those he elected from before the foundation of the world?
They hate God so much they lie about Him.

Paul said God made a way for everyone to seek Him and Paul even went further into his explanantion.

28 .....“‘For we are indeed his offspring.’

29 Being then God's offspring, we ought not to think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and imagination of man.

30 The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.


Paul said ALL humans are God's offspring.

So it would take a sadistic mind to send the majority of your offspring to an Eternal Hell on purpose without giving them a chance to repent.
It would be worse than sacrificing your offspring to Baal.


But we know what God told ALL of His Offspring: 30 The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.
 

Lamar

Active member
May 21, 2023
949
141
43
God chose a certain number of "elect" from the beginning of time, No one is able to believe and be saved, but God enables those certain people to believe and be saved, and when He does, His grace cannot be resisted,
Forget the "ist".

Do you believe the statement to be true. You seem to be dancing around this simple question.

If you believe it, own it.
 

DJT_47

Well-known member
Oct 20, 2022
1,064
187
63
Free yes, but that doesn't mean that we have no part in it nor that we are nor obligated to do our part on order to obtain the free gift. It requires us to
1. Believe
2. Confess our belief
3. Repent
4. Be baptized into Christ
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,334
557
113
How does it feel to be so incredibly impotent and not been able to change the minds of anyone who knows how you twist scripture?


Why do you keep ignoring the verse before 2:14?

Verse 13 which things we also speak not in words taught by human wisdom, but in words taught by the Spirit explaining spiritual things to spiritual men.

That is NOT PREACHING the Gospel, it's explaining Spiritual things that verse 14 cannot understand.

So the Gospel preached is different and can be understood by ALL WHO HEAR.
A spiritually dead person can hear the Gospel but he cant hear it with Spiritual discernment and understanding 2 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
4,321
714
113
A spiritually dead person can hear the Gospel but he cant hear it with Spiritual discernment and understanding 2 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
How does it feel to be so incredibly impotent and not been able to change the minds of anyone who knows how you twist scripture?


Why do you keep ignoring the verse before 2:14?

Verse 13 which things we also speak not in words taught by human wisdom, but in words taught by the Spirit explaining spiritual things to spiritual men.

That is NOT PREACHING the Gospel, it's explaining Spiritual things that verse 14 cannot understand.

So the Gospel preached is different and can be understood by ALL WHO HEAR.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,150
29,459
113
Perfect love casts out fear.
This true. Do you think that happens instantaneously? Upon being convicted of sin, and finding
out how wrong you were about there being a God, Who He is, and the absolute power He has?


I know it didn't for me. That is why Paul said, it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God.
 

Shepherd

Active member
May 11, 2022
248
82
28
Forget the "ist".

Do you believe the statement to be true. You seem to be dancing around this simple question.

If you believe it, own it.
False. And you took my post out of context. I have "danced around" nothing. What do you mean "statement"? I asked a question. Read the question and answer. I will quote it again with the part you left out.

"Basically a calvinist believes that God chose a certain number of "elect" from the beginning of time, No one is able to believe and be saved, but God enables those certain people to believe and be saved, and when He does, His grace cannot be resisted, Of course there are a few more beliefs too. Is that how you believe?"
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,207
6,608
113
62
Do you believe that God only enables those he elected from before the foundation of the world?
Are you referring to Ephesians 1:4...those chosen in Him? That's what it says, right?
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,334
557
113
How does it feel to be so incredibly impotent and not been able to change the minds of anyone who knows how you twist scripture?


Why do you keep ignoring the verse before 2:14?

Verse 13 which things we also speak not in words taught by human wisdom, but in words taught by the Spirit explaining spiritual things to spiritual men.

That is NOT PREACHING the Gospel, it's explaining Spiritual things that verse 14 cannot understand.

So the Gospel preached is different and can be understood by ALL WHO HEAR.
A spiritually dead person can hear the Gospel but he cant hear it with Spiritual discernment and understanding 2 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
 

Lamar

Active member
May 21, 2023
949
141
43
False. And you took my post out of context. I have "danced around" nothing. What do you mean "statement"? I asked a question. Read the question and answer. I will quote it again with the part you left out.

"Basically a calvinist believes that God chose a certain number of "elect" from the beginning of time, No one is able to believe and be saved, but God enables those certain people to believe and be saved, and when He does, His grace cannot be resisted, Of course there are a few more beliefs too. Is that how you believe?"
Please forgive me. This question was meant for Cameron143 not you. My error totally.
I suspect Cameron143 does not want to answer your question because of the absurdity of accepting such a notion.

I will try to pay more attention to who I am replying to.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,207
6,608
113
62
This true. Do you think that happens instantaneously? Upon being convicted of sin, and finding
out how wrong you were about there being a God, Who He is, and the absolute power He has?


I know it didn't for me. That is why Paul said, it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God.
There is a big difference between fearing God and fearing repercussions from our actions. Fear of outcomes is a natural unsettling about ourselves. Fear of God is a supernatural fear that isn't dreadful, but communicates understanding and wisdom to it's recipient.
There's more if you want to go deeper, but it definitely doesn't come all at once and is part of salvation.
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
4,321
714
113
A spiritually dead person can hear the Gospel but he cant hear it with Spiritual discernment and understanding 2 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
How does it feel to be so incredibly impotent and not been able to change the minds of anyone who knows how you twist scripture?


Why do you keep ignoring the verse before 2:14?

Verse 13 which things we also speak not in words taught by human wisdom, but in words taught by the Spirit explaining spiritual things to spiritual men.

That is NOT PREACHING the Gospel, it's explaining Spiritual things that verse 14 cannot understand.

So the Gospel preached is different and can be understood by ALL WHO HEAR.