Works (obedience) of faith are the result of salvation, not the cause of it (Ac 16:30).
Salvation Not Possible Without Works
- Thread starter SeaBass
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
So men were not saved by grace before 2000 years ago? I know that's wrong but explain it.
Knew you would not understand election either.
How does one explain grace?
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Nor is the word "sovereign," "Trinity," nor "relationship" in the Bible,
but they are presented there nonetheless.
The "word" does have to be there for the Bible to present its meaning.
Did I quote a verse to which I added a word?
If not, you are misrepresenting me.
K
kennethcadwell
Guest
Luke 6:46-47
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them.....
Matthew 28:19-20
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
Luke 13:3
I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.
Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
[h=1]Matthew 10:32-3
Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.[/h]
[h=1]Matthew 6:14-15
“For if you forgive men their trespasses (sins), your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their trespasses (sins), neither will your Father forgive your trespasses (sins).[/h]
John 12:49
For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
John 7:16
So Jesus answered them and said, "My teaching is not Mine, but His who sent Me.
John 14:24
He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them.....
Matthew 28:19-20
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
Luke 13:3
I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.
Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
[h=1]Matthew 10:32-3
Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.[/h]
[h=1]Matthew 6:14-15
“For if you forgive men their trespasses (sins), your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their trespasses (sins), neither will your Father forgive your trespasses (sins).[/h]
John 12:49
For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
John 7:16
So Jesus answered them and said, "My teaching is not Mine, but His who sent Me.
John 14:24
He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
B
BradC
Guest
Under the baptism of John the Holy Spirit did not come to indwell Jesus, the Son of God, it came to signify that Jesus was God's Son and to anoint him for the task he was about to take on the next three years. The Spirit descended upon him (Mt 3:16). Jesus already had the indwelling Spirit because he had come from the Father (John 3:6). He was born of the Spirit in the womb of the virgin Mary. He had an ear to hear the Father because of the Spirit. He could pray and intercede with the Father because of the Spirit. He was God in the flesh and dwelt among men because he was born of the Spirit. Jesus came in the flesh but was born in the Spirit. As a child he grew and waxed strong in grace because of the Spirit of grace. His human spirit as a man was indwelt by the Holy Spirit making them both one and with the Father.
There is not much scripture to prove these things that have been mentioned but there is one who knows and that is the Spirit who indwells us and guides us into all truth, even into the deep things of God. Question: How could the Lord Jesus Christ say to his disciples in (John 14:8,9), 'if you have seen me you have seen the Father' unless he and the Father had the same Spirit from the beginning? How can the Son be the expressed image of his person without having the same Spirit (Heb 1:3)? Is not God the Father a Spirit (John 4:24) and did he not express the image of his person through His Son? How could God the Father do this unless it was done through one Spirit? Is this not what is means in (Col 1:15) when we read that the Son is the image of the invisible God? How could the Son proclaim that he was one with the Father unless it be through one Spirit (John 10:30)? How can we be one as they are one unless we have the same Spirit (John 17:11, 2Cor 3:18, 1Cor 6:17, 12:13, Eph 2:18, 4:4).
God's salvation was brought to sinful man through the Son and by the Spirit that raised him from the dead (Rom 8:11).
if God sees faith, and counts it as righteousness, but men can only see the works that demonstrate faith, which is the primary thing?
How can you believe since you accept glory from one another but do not seek the glory that comes from the only God?
(John 5:44)
while we were ungodly, He justified us and lifted us up in Him into the glory of the heavens when we looked for and trusted in His mercy!
knowing this, how can i say it is impossible for Him to save someone who hasn't proven themselves before men, but who has believed on Him?
but it's impossible for anyone who He has raised up from the dead into life to remain dead, because the life He gives is eternal. so our righteousness is the result of His salvation, not the cause of it.
How can you believe since you accept glory from one another but do not seek the glory that comes from the only God?
(John 5:44)
while we were ungodly, He justified us and lifted us up in Him into the glory of the heavens when we looked for and trusted in His mercy!
knowing this, how can i say it is impossible for Him to save someone who hasn't proven themselves before men, but who has believed on Him?
but it's impossible for anyone who He has raised up from the dead into life to remain dead, because the life He gives is eternal. so our righteousness is the result of His salvation, not the cause of it.
sorry your understanding of scripture is to support your doctrine...it is like if you had a fever and asked me what must I do to get better...and I answer "visit the doctor..." in all your wisdom you simply visit the doctor and is confident that by your visit alone you will get better...but you neglect the instructions of the doctor ...two weeks later your sickness is worst and you tell me that doctor is no good I visited him but I feel even worst....so I say to you did you follow his instructions ...you say to me ...what instructions are you talking about? you said to visit so I visited you said nothing about following instructions...such is your understanding of believe on the Lord Jesus and thou shall be saved..
[SUP]30 [/SUP]And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
[SUP]31 [/SUP]And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
you see they had to speak the words of the Lord to him first and when he believed the word he was baptised... in your understanding he was saved even before he heard the word...you think he was saved the moment they told him...believe on the Lord and you shall be saved...and out of blue he just knew all about Jesus... believed and was saved....
But why would I think they were saved before they believed?
And why would I think they believed before they heard the gospel?
It would seem that I would think
when the jailer was told, that in order to be saved, he must "believe,"
Paul and Silas were referring to the gospel (the word of the Lord) they were going to give them,
which must be believed in order to be saved.
Faith is not our work, it is a gift of God (Php 1:29; 2Pe 1:1; Ac 18:27; Ro 12:3).
The works which follow belief/faith are the result of salvation, not the cause of it.
Last edited:
B
BradC
Guest
and the word says ( acts 2:38)....those who believe are given the keys to the kingdom...repent and be baptised for the remission of sins and you shall receive the gift of the HS...born of water and of the Spirit...
but this is what you think...
you see my friend you do not believe that one must obey God's word to be saved...
Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
What is the different between work of faith and work of law?
Is work of faith contradict with work of law?
What is the example work of faith that contradict work or law?
I never said faith is our work ....I say like James faith without works is dead....it cannot save...you have works running behind faith...not so....faith and works go together... anything not done in faith is sin...your works are not an after thought of faith your works are works of faith...faith/(belief) comes by hearing ....you obey what you hear
Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
work of faith is obedience to Christ......work of the law is obedience to Moses....
Paul circumcised Timothy not in obedience to Moses but as a minister of Christ for the furtherance of the gospel.....If he had not done it the Jews would have stirred up trouble and he would not be able to enter the synagogue to preach the word.......On the other hand the Galatians were being told they needed to be circumcised according to the law of Moses to be completed in Christ....
in the same way if a man decides to be circumcised for health or personal reasons...he is not acting in obedience to Moses law...
A man who is abiding in Christ is not subject to Moses Law...but at the same time some of Moses law is found in Christ's law....because we don't steal,kill or covet ...Christ law is governed by the Spirit guiding our heart and mind...resulting in positive actions.love,joy, peace and mercy...The law of Moses is a written code without mercy and condemns those who break it to death...
So do you believe Moses have the right to issue his law?
To my knowledge, Moses is doesn't have the right to issue his own law. Moses only announce the law of God and Jesus is God.
You said work of faith is obedience to Jesus. Can you explain to me why you said so and what verse said so.
Can person obedience to Jesus without abide in Him?
K
Kerry
Guest
No, Moses is only announce the law of God. No body have the right to make the law regarding heaven or hell, but God Himself.
K