Salvation Not Possible Without Works

[mattp0625]

Problematic if one claims Sola scriptura

 

[Elin]

I never said anything about contradiction.

And. . . . . .?

 

[Elin]

Nowhere does Paul say grace excludes obedience to God.

Grace is a free gift that comes with conditions and those that meet the conditions of believing, repenting, confessing and submitting baptism receive grace.

You have a problem with comprehension of words.

It's not free if conditions must be met.

 

[Elin]

I'm not against good works. However,
look at all the hatred on these threads. Those aren't good works.

Maybe you have confused good works with intense disagreement. Even your statement here alone smacks of self righteousness as if not to include yourself with those you are pointing fingers at. I may not post much in these forums but I certainly read a good deal of them. I've seen you give as good as you get.

I'm sure the Judaizers felt Paul was also guilty of hatred of them,

and the Pharisees felt Jesus was guilty of hatred of them.

 

[SeaBass]

So the Power to keep oneself if based out of your good Works?

Your going to have a hard time Explaining that to the Risen Redeemer, when His Word tells us and those who are Led of Him know that its 'because of Him' we are kept unto Salvation... this the Redemption of the body, Resurrection Body..



[TABLE="width: 100%"]
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[TD="class: vDispb, bgcolor: #F5F5F5"]Now unto -----> HIM (you seabass)??? or God?? that is ABLE to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of His Glory with Exceeding joy, JUDE 1: 24

TO remain a Christian, is in the Power of the LORD, for he/she is KEPT BY THE POWER OF GOD, its not their good works 'keeping them'... Good Works were ordained for them to Walk in ONCE THEY WERE REGENERATED.....

you will have hard time explaining this to the Risen Savior! indeed![/TD]
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[/TABLE]

Eph 2:10 says God BEFORE ORDAINED that those who are Christians walk in good works. Can you undo what God BEFORE ORDAINED and claim one who is a Christian can remain a saved Christian yet WITHOUT walking good works?

 

[mattp0625]

the Pharisees persecuted Jesus, not vice versa

 

[SeaBass]

Straw man.

The issue is by grace alone through faith (Eph 2:8-9), the issue is not by works alone.

You added the word "alone" to God's word in EPh 2:8 thereby changing it. When you change God's word you no longer have God's word.

 

[SeaBass]

You have a problem with comprehension of words.

It's not free if conditions must be met.

You still refuse to understand the simple concept that free gifts can and do come with conditions.

Naaman was freely healed by grace but that free healing came with the condition of dipping in the river seven times. And the work of dipping earned him nothing but was just meeting a condition placed upon a free gift.

 

[Elin]

Problematic if one claims Sola scriptura

Yes, only Scripture is my spiritual authority for faith, doctrine and godliness,

which personal authority has no bearing on interpretation of Scripture nor actual Biblical content,

it bears only on the actual existence of Scripture itself.

 

[Elin]

the Pharisees persecuted Jesus, not vice versa

Check out the NT. . .

Wingin' it again in an area for which you have no preparation or training.

 

[Elin]

You added the word "alone" to God's word in EPh 2:8 thereby changing it. When you change God's word you no longer have God's word.

It's not free grace unless it's alone. . .not by physical actions of righteousness (Eph 2:8-9).

 

[Elin]

You still refuse to understand the simple concept that free gifts can and do come with conditions.

That's not the meaning of "free."

Conditions = merit if the gift is withheld because of lack of the conditions.

Grace is totally without merit.

 

[SeaBass]

It's not free grace unless it's alone. . .not by physical actions of righteousness (Eph 2:8-9).

The bible does not teach salvation is by grace ALONE so YOU ADDED the word 'alone' to try and force it to say what you wished it had.

Eph 2:8 says salvation is by grace AND faith not by grace alone or faith alone but God's grace and man's faith together.

Grace is free yet man must meet the condition of having faith to have access to this free gift of grace, Rom 5:2.

 

[SeaBass]

That's not the meaning of "free."

Conditions = merit if the gift is withheld because of lack of the conditions.

Grace is totally without merit.

God's grace to Naaman was free, God did not charge Naaman anything for his free healing.

 

[elf3]

Well i am finally able to be back on the line and i come here to find the same old argument. How about i put this stupid argument to bed once and for all.....SALVATION IS NOT POSSIBLE WITHOUT JESUS!!!! Enough said.

 

[Elin]

That's not the meaning of "free."

Conditions = merit if the gift is withheld because of lack of the conditions.

Grace is totally without merit.

Naaman was free, God did not charge Naaman anything for his free healing.

So you speculate that if Naaman had not obeyed the instructions he would not have been healed.

Naaman's healing is not an example of the necessity of obedience (works) in "salvation by grace,
not by works."

What if Naaman broke his leg on the way and could not obey the instructions, would God have healed him anyway?

I speculate that God would have healed him even though Namaan could not obey the instructions,
because that would have made Naaman powerless, which is what we all are (Ro 8:7-8) before we are saved only by the power and grace of God, nothing else added by us.

 

[MarcR]

Well i am finally able to be back on the line and i come here to find the same old argument. How about i put this stupid argument to bed once and for all.....SALVATION IS NOT POSSIBLE WITHOUT JESUS!!!! Enough said.

Well said Elf! I would add:

Jesus + NOTHING = ALL WE NEED

JESUS + ANYTHING = NOT GOOD ENOUGH

 

[elf3]

I really find this very interesting that there are so many arguments over baptism and good works; sola scriptura and the TULIP; You cant believe this theologian or that theologian but yet the Gospel of Christ is never mentioned. I am sure God is loving this. Hey lets argue in front of this "new Christian" about good works or baptism and throw out the Gospel.

I have an idea....How about we find a subject where we can all study Gods Word together. Oh i dont know um...how about the Love of God. What an idea we might actually be able to study Gods Word instead of argue and fight so noone learns anything.

 

[MarcR]

Well i am finally able to be back on the line and i come here to find the same old argument. How about i put this stupid argument to bed once and for all.....SALVATION IS NOT POSSIBLE WITHOUT JESUS!!!! Enough said.

Well said Elf! I would add:


Jesus + NOTHING = ALL WE NEED

Jesus + ANYTHING = NOT GOOD ENOUGH


We MUST depend on Jesus and nothing else!

 

[elf3]

One very important thing gets washed over every single time in these "doctrinal" arguments. Satan has this "divide and conquer" thing down perfect. We will argue over these "small" things so much we forget the Gospel. Oh is satan rubbing his hands together thinking "well i got them away from preaching the Gospel". I can only imagine God thinking "are you kidding me? They are going to argue over this again?"

It is the same arguement that came to front last month and the month before and the month before and so on. How about we get four Christians together with a non believer and argue "good works" instead of the preaching the Gospel. Um....yeah perfect way to spread the Word of God. No wonder many non believers shake their heads at us. We would rather argue than preach the Gospel. Church? What church? All i see are a bunch of "Christians" trying to prove their knowledge to each other. If i wasnt a Christian i would think Christianity was a joke.