Salvation Not Possible Without Works

[eternally-gratefull]

Well, your question implies a very good point. Their resurrection, happened when? AFTER Jesus died on the cross.

as did their physical death.

 

[cfultz3]

when was their resurrection?

When He rose.

It also says that a covenant is not in power until the DEATH of the Testator. Therefore, that man was still under the Old Covenant. And that man was resurrected WITH the rest of the Old Testament saints.

 

[cfultz3]

as did their physical death.

Jesus said to him that he would be WITH Him in paradise that day. Plus, Jesus was there for 3 days.....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jesus said to him that he would be WITH Him in paradise that day. Plus, Jesus was there for 3 days.....

He was with him, And still is with him in paradise Jesus did some things while he was there. Paradise is still there. If you are saved, The moment you die, that is where you will go to await your resurrection.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

When He rose.

It also says that a covenant is not in power until the DEATH of the Testator. Therefore, that man was still under the Old Covenant. And that man was resurrected WITH the rest of the Old Testament saints.

So he was saved by the Old covenant?

How is this so?

 

[cfultz3]

He was with him, And still is with him in paradise Jesus did some things while he was there. Paradise is still there. If you are saved, The moment you die, that is where you will go to await your resurrection.

If Abraham's Bosom is still in Hades, then the righteous dead still goes to Hades when they die. However, as you have said and are correct, Paradise (Abraham's Bosom) is now in Heaven where we wait for our resurrection.

 

[cfultz3]

So he was saved by the Old covenant?

How is this so?

No, like the other saints of the Old Covenant, He went to Paradise to await his Messiah.....lol and to his benefit, he did not have to wait toooooo long

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If Abraham's Bosom is still in Hades, then the righteous dead still goes to Hades when they die. However, as you have said and are correct, Paradise (Abraham's Bosom) is now in Heaven where we wait for our resurrection.

Yes, Because the price for all mens salvation was not paid in full until Christ took the penalty and made the payment of redemption. Amen Bro!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No, like the other saints of the Old Covenant, He went to Paradise to await his Messiah.....lol and to his benefit, he did not have to wait toooooo long

Ok just asking.

I was taught that they were saved under the old. We are saved under the new, and after some rapture they will return to being saved by the old.

Took me months and months of study to finally figure out this was not true. So when yuo said it, I just wanted to make sure this is not what you were saying.

 

[Alligator]

J


The church was established on the day of Pentecost. In Mark 9-1 Jesus said the kingdom of God would come with power. Acts 1:8 indicates that the power came on the day of pentecost.

The church was started literally in Gen 3: 15 Since that time there has been a body of Christ.

each church went through new covenants. The age of grace started in Pentecost correct. But the church has ALWAYS been his children gathered together.

. See Matthew 16:18.And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

It says I will build my church. So the church still had not been established at this point.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Genesis 315 has nothing to do with the church. See Matthew 16:18.And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

It says I will build my church. So the church still had not been established at this point.

lol.

Again look up the greek word.

CHurch is an english translation of the word which means an assembly, or gathering together.

Gods children have been gathering together since 3: 15 first hinted at how God was going to restore his relationship with mankind.

 

[Alligator]

J


The church was established on the day of Pentecost. In Mark 9-1 Jesus said the kingdom of God would come with power. Acts 1:8 indicates that the power came on the day of pentecost.

. See Matthew 16:18.And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

It says I will build my church. So the church still had not been established at this point.

lol.

Again look up the greek word.

CHurch is an english translation of the word which means an assembly, or gathering together.

Gods children have been gathering together since 3: 15 first hinted at how God was going to restore his relationship with mankind.

you are using the term very loosely, to say the least. I was referring to the organized body of believers, the called out, the church which was formally established on the day of Pentecost.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

you are using the term very loosely, to say the least. I was referring to the organized body of believers, the called out, the church which was formally established on the day of Pentecost.

Yes I know. Your trying to separate them from all people where were called out by God in the OT.

There is no basis to do this, They are just as much a part of the body as I am. I am no more worthy than David or Daniel or abraham. We were all saved the same way, By faith in God to remove the penalty of sin.

 

[cfultz3]

Dang! Going for the jugular!

PS: Good point.

Seems the war-torn bleeding was stopped simply by asking for clarification....hoping everyone will stop the stabbing or giving the concept of such....

 

[Alligator]

Yes I know. Your trying to separate them from all people where were called out by God in the OT.

There is no basis to do this, They are just as much a part of the body as I am. I am no more worthy than David or Daniel or abraham. We were all saved the same way, By faith in God to remove the penalty of sin.

.

I repeat, in Matthew 16, the Church still had not been established. That is a church I'm talking about. The called out body of believers in Christ.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

.

I repeat, in Matthew 16, the Church still had not been established. That is a church I'm talking about. The called out body of believers in Christ.

And again I disagree.

It was established in the OT by the first promises of redemption.

The NT Church was established at Pentecost yes.

But salvation was no different than the OT church.


The church is the body of CHrist. King David and Daniel were just as much a part of this body as I am.

 

[Alligator]

And again I disagree.

It was established in the OT by the first promises of redemption.

The NT Church was established at Pentecost yes.

But salvation was no different than the OT church.


The church is the body of CHrist. King David and Daniel were just as much a part of this body as I

what scriptural proof do you have that the church, any church, was established during the Old Testament. See Acts 2:47. Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

this is the first evidence of the New Testament church being in existence.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And again I disagree.

It was established in the OT by the first promises of redemption.

The NT Church was established at Pentecost yes.

But salvation was no different than the OT church.


The church is the body of CHrist. King David and Daniel were just as much a part of this body as I

what scriptural proof do you have that the church, any church, was established during the Old Testament. See Acts 2:47. Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

this is the first evidence of the New Testament church being in existence.

This argument is getting old. You do not understand what I am saying, and probably never will.

A question to you.

Was daniel (under the old) saved eternally different that I am saved?

 

[Alligator]

This argument is getting old. You do not understand what I am saying, and probably never will.

you are right, lol.

A question to you.

[Was daniel (under the old) saved eternally different that I am saved?

Yes

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes

Thanks.

You agree then he is a part of the same body (church) of Christ.