Satan in Eden

[psalm6819]

With regard to El it would be alphet, lamed, and is always qualified by a descriptor to distinguish Him from false gods. I don't represent myself as a Hebrew scholar, I just learned the Hebrew letters, one of the studies -names of God.

 

[psalm6819]

Not according to real biblical language experts. I gave you the citations above- use them or not. I don't really care what amateurs pretend they know.

And just who would the "Sons of God" be?

And, please explain why God's Satan was totally under the command of god El in Job if he were the "fallen" or the snake.

Pull you head free from the old Strong's Concordance published in 1894.

Why would you consider something plainly evident in the pictographs El meaning mighty or powerful. Sons of God refer to beings directly created by God.

Satan has always been under God's control- He can lie and tempt but cannot force his will on us. God will not force His will on us.

Is there a concordance you recomend?

 

[Dr_GS_Hurd]

Is there a concordance you recomend?

You might have missed them:

Slifkin, Rabbi Natan
2007 “Sacred Monsters: Mysterious and Mythical Creatures of Scripture, Talmud and Midrash” New York: Zoo Torah and Yashar Books

Jewish Publication Society
2004 “The Jewish Study Bible: TANAKA translation” Oxford University Press.

Zevit, Ziony
2001 "The Religions of Ancient Israel: A Synthesis of Parallactic Approaches” New York: Continuum Press

And then the many Christian scholars I have studied;

Blenkinsopp, Joseph
1992 The Pentateuch: An Introduction to the First Five Books of the Bible The Anchor Bible Reference Library New York: ABRL/Doubleday

Boadt, Lawrence
1984 Reading the Old Testament: an Introduction Mahwah N.J.: The Paulist Press

Bodine, Walter R., (Ed.)
1992 "Linguistics and Biblical Hebrew." Winona Lake: Eisenbrauns

Pardee, Dennis
2002 Writings from the Ancient World Vol. 10: Ritual and Cult at Ugarit Atlanta: Society of Biblical Literature

Pope, Marvin H.
1965 “Job: A new translation with Introduction and Commentary” Anchor Bible Vol. 15, New York: ABRL/Doubleday

Smith, Mark S.
2002 “The Early History of God 2nd ed.” Grand Rapids: Wm B Eerdmans Publishing

Schniedewind, William M., Joel H. Hunt
2007 “A Primer on Ugaritic: Language, Culture, and Literature” Cambridge University Press

Specifically for the introductory notes, and translation lexicon;

Dahood, Mitchell
1965 Psalms I, 1-50: Introduction, Translation and Notes New York: Anchor Bible- Doubleday

Pardee, Dennis
2002 Writings from the Ancient World Vol. 10: Ritual and Cult at Ugarit Atlanta: Society of Biblical Literature

Smith, Mark S.
2003 “The Origins of Biblical Monotheism: Israel's Polytheistic Background and the Ugaritic Texts” Oxford University Press.

 

[Dr_GS_Hurd]

???

I guess your pretend name referrers to Psalm 68?

I have found that Psalm rather interesting because of the places it names. The disgusting depravity of dogs ripping out people's tongues and the rest are not much interest to me.

 

[psalm6819]

Okay, Ty, Know what's funny? All your debating skill, Dr Hurd and all your research skills cannot hide the fact YOU are obsessed with God. That's not a bad thing, maybe you'll be like Paul, a total 180 and then with God's help you'll not only reach your potential. He'll make you exceed it.

 

[psalm6819]

It's not a pretend name it's a Bible verse "Blessed be the Lord who dailey loadeth us with benefits, the God of our salvation."

I don't use my legal name because I'm female and any woman who does that is not being wise.

 

[Dr_GS_Hurd]

Why would you consider something plainly evident in the pictographs El meaning mighty or powerful. Sons of God refer to beings directly created by God.

What pictographs?

Sons of God refer to beings directly created by God. Ah... Do you have a direct source on that?

 

[Dr_GS_Hurd]

I have studied many religious cults for over 40 years. It was my job. And I liked my job.

I even like people like you who believe in gods and goddesses you probably never heard of before. You are probably as nice as they are.

My "obsession" is rebutting the gross lies propagated by creationists. They prevent needed actions to salvage what can be salvaged of human civilization. Did that seem too exaggerated? Did that seem as apocalyptic as the creationist nitwits trying to destroy humanity?

I think it is really that desperate. They will kill us. They will block efforts to control the human climate forcing. They are blocking evolutionary efforts to eliminate disease. They are blocking efforts to use evolution to advance agriculture.

Many of my professional colleagues think I am wasting my time.

 

[Tintin]

I have studied many religious cults for over 40 years. It was my job. And I liked my job.

I even like people like you who believe in gods and goddesses you probably never heard of before. You are probably as nice as they are.

My "obsession" is rebutting the gross lies propagated by creationists. They prevent needed actions to salvage what can be salvaged of human civilization. Did that seem too exaggerated? Did that seem as apocalyptic as the creationist nitwits trying to destroy humanity?

I think it is really that desperate. They will kill us. They will block efforts to control the human climate forcing. They are blocking evolutionary efforts to eliminate disease. They are blocking efforts to use evolution to advance agriculture.

Many of my professional colleagues think I am wasting my time.

Hahaha! So funny! You should be a comedian.

 

[pastac]

Dr Hurd is in need of a prescription I suggest take the bible and call someone in the morning. Look folks this person is obviously set in the belief of their proposed ways and views to argue to refute will be futile so let Hurd get hereded with the rest ya herd me? Oh that was Ebonics for did you hear me? lol anyway don't get caught up in the Hurd debate
pastac

 

[Dr_GS_Hurd]

Hahaha! So funny! You should be a comedian.

My fellow scientists who think civilization is already doomed will point at you, or the Muslim freaks like ISIS as how we will destroy ourselves.

I'll probably die first, but I might survive another 30 years. If we do not take massive corrective actions to reduce population, stop biological species extinctions, and limit global warming all civilization will be gone in less than a century.

About 180,000 years ago a massive cold period reduced the human ancestors to at most a few hundred thousand. As a result, we know that biologically humans will probably survive the next 100 years, but will civilization?

Of course one problem are the "rapture ready" lunatics that actually want death to overwhelm the world. But I hope to occasionally find in these discussions at least some people capable of reading and thinking. I am even more hopeful that at least a few will try in the future to salvage what we can.

 

[Dr_GS_Hurd]

Dr Hurd is in need of a prescription I suggest take the bible and call someone in the morning. Look folks this person is obviously set in the belief of their proposed ways and views to argue to refute will be futile so let Hurd get hereded with the rest ya herd me? Oh that was Ebonics for did you hear me? lol anyway don't get caught up in the Hurd debate
pastac

WOW. Stupid and racist.

Did you ever read the Bible?

 

[Word_Swordsman]

Typically antibiblical. Quoting scripture without any understanding of the culture, or languages of antiquity is mere boasting, and self-righteous nonsense. How does this Gen 2:14 description that the "serpent" would be a conventionally legless reptile- a snake? How can you even pretend then that this snake is "Satan." And the demigod Lucifer was hardly a snake. Cite that dummy.

No atheist is qualified to comment on the things of God, for they are spiritually discerned.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

Not according to real biblical language experts. I gave you the citations above- use them or not. I don't really care what amateurs pretend they know.

And just who would the "Sons of God" be?

And, please explain why God's Satan was totally under the command of god El in Job if he were the "fallen" or the snake.

Pull you head free from the old Strong's Concordance published in 1894.

No atheist is qualified to comment on the things of God, for they are spiritually discerned.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

My fellow scientists who think civilization is already doomed will point at you, or the Muslim freaks like ISIS as how we will destroy ourselves.

I'll probably die first, but I might survive another 30 years. If we do not take massive corrective actions to reduce population, stop biological species extinctions, and limit global warming all civilization will be gone in less than a century.

About 180,000 years ago a massive cold period reduced the human ancestors to at most a few hundred thousand. As a result, we know that biologically humans will probably survive the next 100 years, but will civilization?

Of course one problem are the "rapture ready" lunatics that actually want death to overwhelm the world. But I hope to occasionally find in these discussions at least some people capable of reading and thinking. I am even more hopeful that at least a few will try in the future to salvage what we can.

No atheist is qualified to comment on the things of God, for they are spiritually discerned. We Christians are far above the fears of atheists who can't trust God. You may sit out the adventures ahead, deep in your cave. We will walk as the children of God without fear of man or earth, fearing only God. That great Ice Age occurred only 4,400 years ago following the global flood of Noah's time. It was intended to melt, and is doing so. If the next one comes, as per normal cycling of the sun and the greater rule of God, we will move away from the glaciers like men did then, and prosper. We have the technology to do it more comfortably. That's a proper use of science that is far above your notion of it. Your polar ice caps and glaciers lasted too long in your minds, unreasonably growing deeper instead of melting off. Get smart and join the family of God.

 

[Ella85]

serpent
ˈsəːp(ə)nt/Submit
noun
1.
literary
a large snake.
a biblical name for Satan (see Gen. 3, Rev. 20).
noun: Serpent; noun: the Serpent
a dragon or other mythical snake-like reptile.
"fire-breathing, flying serpents"
2.
a sly or treacherous person, especially one who exploits a position of trust in order to betray it.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

I have studied many religious cults for over 40 years. It was my job. And I liked my job.

I even like people like you who believe in gods and goddesses you probably never heard of before. You are probably as nice as they are.

My "obsession" is rebutting the gross lies propagated by creationists. They prevent needed actions to salvage what can be salvaged of human civilization. Did that seem too exaggerated? Did that seem as apocalyptic as the creationist nitwits trying to destroy humanity?

I think it is really that desperate. They will kill us. They will block efforts to control the human climate forcing. They are blocking evolutionary efforts to eliminate disease. They are blocking efforts to use evolution to advance agriculture.

Many of my professional colleagues think I am wasting my time.

Your fears have overcome you. I wonder, is your obsession similar to what drove Hitler and Stalin over the edge?

China, South America, most of the nations are polluting the earth without care, while Americans are needlessly sacrificing more and more to try offsetting their neglect. And you blame creationist scientists, the greatest scientists ever known to man?
Pray to God, ask His mercy, ask that he save you today. He will heal your fears. Until then, I will have to agree with your colleagues that you daily waste too much of your time here. It doesn't appear you have disciples here. You can probably find some over at Atheist Central. Here, we are about our Father's business.

 

[GodIsSalvation]

Yes, Satan is the same as the serpent in Eden. Firstly to note, modern revisionists and atheists contend that the serpent refers here to a common snake, but this is not so. In ancient literature "Serpent" is a word used to refer to a class of animals we today call dragons. As all ready cited on here, Revelation 12 supports this. However, to link Satan (a title meaning adversary or enemy) to the dragon in Eden, John 8:44 is perhaps the best verse for this. Jesus explains the Devil (another title for this dragon, which means liar) was a liar and murderer from the beginning. Looking back to Genesis 3, we can see this can only refer to the serpent of Eden.

There is another important lesson to be learned from Genesis 3. Look how God have mercy on the Man, even clothing the Man, for God is a God of mercy.

 

[4enlightment]

I know Genesis does not say the serpent in Eden was Satan; but I thought this was stated in the epistles or somewhere; but now all I can find is rev 20:2, which does not mention Eden. Is there anything more explicit?

[h=4]Bible search results[/h]Revelation 12:9
The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

Revelation 20:2
He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

Isaiah 14:12 (KJV) [SUP]12 [/SUP] How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

That chapter reveals some information on Satan, who was originally named Lucifer by God until he rebelled. Compare that passage to Ezekiel 28. Ezekiel 28:13 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

There we have a very significant description of Lucifer from before his fall and after. There he is ruling over the king of Tyre, Ithobalus II, who began to take on the personality and behavior of Satan. When reading the two, Isaiah and Ezekiel, together they reveal Satan as the one in the Garden. Ithobalus II had a magnificent surrounding, a beautiful garden, was decked out almost as well as Solomon. Some things said of him in Ezekiel were possible for a mortal man, but the things no man could do are of Satan, while Satan could do anything that king could do. I believe the king got to the point everything he did was what Satan wanted him to do and say, so the judgment later in the Ezekiel passage applied to both of them. Satan's part came in part by way of Jesus, the rest will come at the end when he is throne into the lake of fire, no doubt held onto by millions of doomed sinners also going into it.