Saul of Tarsus was not saved on the road to Damascus.
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I am, in the sense that there are several moving parts in the salvation process. It's free, but we also have to accept it..... is that a work?
So do you think I can believe in Jesus, but not have faith, and still be saved? Don't even demons believe?
Or, can I simply have faith in Jesus, but not believe what he taught, or who he actually is, and still be saved?
I fail to see how you can simply write off all the examples in scripture of people being saved that included immediate baptism, but instead believe the few times that mention ONE item... he who has faith, or he who believes, or he who calls on the name of Jesus....
Scripture does not spell out baptism in each of those because it was understood that baptism goes right along with faith, belief, calling on Jesus.... it's an integral part of it, just as those other items are.
How can you write off Jesus telling his disciples to go and make believers of all the world, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit....
Salvation is a free gift that we must accept.... God is not going to force us to be saved.... we have to make the deliberate decision to accept it.... and our accepting it includes several things.... faith, belief, confession, repentance, and baptism..... they ALL are necessary.
So do you think I can believe in Jesus, but not have faith, and still be saved? Don't even demons believe?
Or, can I simply have faith in Jesus, but not believe what he taught, or who he actually is, and still be saved?
I fail to see how you can simply write off all the examples in scripture of people being saved that included immediate baptism, but instead believe the few times that mention ONE item... he who has faith, or he who believes, or he who calls on the name of Jesus....
Scripture does not spell out baptism in each of those because it was understood that baptism goes right along with faith, belief, calling on Jesus.... it's an integral part of it, just as those other items are.
How can you write off Jesus telling his disciples to go and make believers of all the world, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit....
Salvation is a free gift that we must accept.... God is not going to force us to be saved.... we have to make the deliberate decision to accept it.... and our accepting it includes several things.... faith, belief, confession, repentance, and baptism..... they ALL are necessary.
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Verse 20 says that those people in the days of Noah were SAVED THROUGH WATER. Immediately, verse 21 says that the ANTITYPE to that, which now SAVES US IS BAPTISM. You are really grasping at straws to say that means we are only saved from a guilty conscience. Nonsense.
Yes. Psalms 119:160 says the “entirety” or “SUM” of God’s word is ASV) is TRUTH. Add it all together!
Yes. Psalms 119:160 says the “entirety” or “SUM” of God’s word is ASV) is TRUTH. Add it all together!
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If you are talking about "being saved" for eternity, then no, Salvation is NOT a process. It's an event.
You are "born again" ONCE. For all time.
It is true we are constantly being "sanctified" to become more transformed into the likeness of Christ. But that sanctification has no bearing on whether we are saved from our sins, and the penalty those who are NOT born again will incur.
No.
I have plenty of relatives and friends that believe in the historical figure, Jesus Christ, but don't believe He is God in the flesh, come to save them from their sin, and rose again from the dead.
Same answer as above.
What exactly are you having faith in? You can't be saved without believing the essentials of the Gospel. Probably a good time to precisely recite what IS THE Gospel unto Salvation:
God wrapped Himself in human flesh in the form of His Son, Jesus the Messiah. Conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of a virgin. He suffered, was crucified, and died to pay OUR sin debt. He was raised to life from the grave to prove He had defeated death. If you confess Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that His Father resurrected Him to Life on the 3rd day, you WILL be saved. You will be filled, and sealed with the Holy Spirit, who will empower ALL to turn from their sins. The sin of adultery, lying, stealing, homosexuality, gossip, slander, drunkenness, covetousness, etc... And most importantly the sin of DEAD works, or a moral life in an attempt to EARN Salvation. He will also equip you to love like He did and do good works for HIS Glory.
That's it.
There's a whole bunch of stuff we need to do AFTER becoming born again, but NONE of that affects our Salvation for eternity.
And what's more, to add ANYTHING, or to attempt to do anything to aid that Gospel, is HIGHLY offensive to God.
I'm not writing off anything. Further, we absolutely SHOULD be water Baptized. Jesus tells us to do so.
Baptism is an outward expression of the inward work the Holy Spirit is doing in us, AFTER rebirth into God's family.
See above.
You are "born again" ONCE. For all time.
It is true we are constantly being "sanctified" to become more transformed into the likeness of Christ. But that sanctification has no bearing on whether we are saved from our sins, and the penalty those who are NOT born again will incur.
No.
I have plenty of relatives and friends that believe in the historical figure, Jesus Christ, but don't believe He is God in the flesh, come to save them from their sin, and rose again from the dead.
Same answer as above.
What exactly are you having faith in? You can't be saved without believing the essentials of the Gospel. Probably a good time to precisely recite what IS THE Gospel unto Salvation:
God wrapped Himself in human flesh in the form of His Son, Jesus the Messiah. Conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of a virgin. He suffered, was crucified, and died to pay OUR sin debt. He was raised to life from the grave to prove He had defeated death. If you confess Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that His Father resurrected Him to Life on the 3rd day, you WILL be saved. You will be filled, and sealed with the Holy Spirit, who will empower ALL to turn from their sins. The sin of adultery, lying, stealing, homosexuality, gossip, slander, drunkenness, covetousness, etc... And most importantly the sin of DEAD works, or a moral life in an attempt to EARN Salvation. He will also equip you to love like He did and do good works for HIS Glory.
That's it.
There's a whole bunch of stuff we need to do AFTER becoming born again, but NONE of that affects our Salvation for eternity.
And what's more, to add ANYTHING, or to attempt to do anything to aid that Gospel, is HIGHLY offensive to God.
I'm not writing off anything. Further, we absolutely SHOULD be water Baptized. Jesus tells us to do so.
Baptism is an outward expression of the inward work the Holy Spirit is doing in us, AFTER rebirth into God's family.
See above.
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In answer to your question, "What exactly are you having faith in?"
I and many others have faith in God's promise to those who believe in Jesus. He said those who repent and submit to His command of water baptism in the name of Jesus receive forgiveness of their sin, and are given assurance they will receive the Holy Ghost. (Acts 1:2, 2:36-39) While others adamantly refuse to accept the truth as expressed in that promise.
If you will recall Jesus said those who reject Him and receive not His words are going to be judged by the word. (John 12:48)
Also, keep in mind that the message Peter presented at Pentecost is an essential element of the Gospel message. (Acts 2:36-42)
I and many others have faith in God's promise to those who believe in Jesus. He said those who repent and submit to His command of water baptism in the name of Jesus receive forgiveness of their sin, and are given assurance they will receive the Holy Ghost. (Acts 1:2, 2:36-39) While others adamantly refuse to accept the truth as expressed in that promise.
If you will recall Jesus said those who reject Him and receive not His words are going to be judged by the word. (John 12:48)
Also, keep in mind that the message Peter presented at Pentecost is an essential element of the Gospel message. (Acts 2:36-42)
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People keep saying this.... where is the scripture that defines baptism as only an outward expression?
Is that what the eunuch told Philip? I've believed, and now I'm saved, so, what the heck..... I'm going to make an "outward expression" and be baptized in this pond....
If a person wanted to "become" a part of the Jewish tribe, but said, "I think I'll skip that painful circumcision thing... " would they still be considered a Jew?
According to scripture..... baptism is for the forgiveness of sins, and to appeal to God for a clear conscience, since our sins are forgiven. Also, when we do this, we will receive the free gift of the indwelling Holy Spirit.
You yourself agreed you couldn't be saved if you left out belief, or faith, or repentance... why do you kick baptism to the curb? It's all part of the same "formula" if you will.... all parts are spelled out in scripture, and are necessary.
And, since Jesus himself told the disciples to go and baptize, I don't think that God would be "offended" by it.... since the one that "added" (your claim) it was God's only begotten son.
Is that what the eunuch told Philip? I've believed, and now I'm saved, so, what the heck..... I'm going to make an "outward expression" and be baptized in this pond....
If a person wanted to "become" a part of the Jewish tribe, but said, "I think I'll skip that painful circumcision thing... " would they still be considered a Jew?
According to scripture..... baptism is for the forgiveness of sins, and to appeal to God for a clear conscience, since our sins are forgiven. Also, when we do this, we will receive the free gift of the indwelling Holy Spirit.
You yourself agreed you couldn't be saved if you left out belief, or faith, or repentance... why do you kick baptism to the curb? It's all part of the same "formula" if you will.... all parts are spelled out in scripture, and are necessary.
And, since Jesus himself told the disciples to go and baptize, I don't think that God would be "offended" by it.... since the one that "added" (your claim) it was God's only begotten son.
The repentance is that of dead works. Repentance means to "turn away". So I hope you don't mean repent of your sin.
If we could turn away from our sin BEFORE Conversion and empowerment of the Holy Spirit, what do we need Jesus and the Holy Spirit for?
I really would like you to tell me this. Is the laying on of hands necessary for Salvation and the receiving of the Holy Spirit?
Acts 8:14-17
NKJV
14 Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, 15 who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. 16 For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
Did these guys have to get Baptized again?
Or is it MORE likely, although they knew about Jesus, and who He was, they hadn't yet heard that Jesus died and was resurrected?
Gonna let this remark pass, but it's not very nice, and completely misrepresents what I've said.
If we could turn away from our sin BEFORE Conversion and empowerment of the Holy Spirit, what do we need Jesus and the Holy Spirit for?
I really would like you to tell me this. Is the laying on of hands necessary for Salvation and the receiving of the Holy Spirit?
Acts 8:14-17
NKJV
14 Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, 15 who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. 16 For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
Did these guys have to get Baptized again?
Or is it MORE likely, although they knew about Jesus, and who He was, they hadn't yet heard that Jesus died and was resurrected?
Gonna let this remark pass, but it's not very nice, and completely misrepresents what I've said.
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No.
It was not intended to be "not nice".... I'm sorry if you took it that way. I was just saying, if you agree that all the other elements mentioned in scripture about "being saved" are necessary, why is baptism not that important? You have to believe, you have to have faith, you have to call on Jesus.... baptism is mentioned at LEAST as often as those other "individual" things.... why is it not taught as being necessary? All the others are... ?
It was not intended to be "not nice".... I'm sorry if you took it that way. I was just saying, if you agree that all the other elements mentioned in scripture about "being saved" are necessary, why is baptism not that important? You have to believe, you have to have faith, you have to call on Jesus.... baptism is mentioned at LEAST as often as those other "individual" things.... why is it not taught as being necessary? All the others are... ?
Precious friend, the answer is found In God's Word Of Truth, When 'Rightly Divided' - ie:
In God's Context of Prophecy, Covenants and Law for the Twelve tribes
of Israel, Given to the Twelve [ who "were sent" to water baptize ] apostles,
By 'Christ on the earth':
The Two "Main" (of 12) baptismS =
A) water, "For remission of sins!":
(Matthew 3:5-6; Mark 1:4; Luke 3:3; John 1:31; Luke 7:29-30; Acts 10:37)
(Matthew 28:19; Mark 16:16; Acts 2:38; Acts 22:16; Ezekiel 36:25 AV)
+
B) "With" The Holy Spirit, Poured Out
By CHRIST, for power, signs And wonders!
(Isaiah 44:3; Matthew 3:11; Mark 1:8, 16:17-18; Luke 24:49;
Acts 2:17-18, 38; Acts 8:15-17; Acts 11:16 AV)
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15 AV) From “Things That Differ!” (online):
In God's Other Context Of Mystery and GRACE! - Given to One apostle
{ who was "Not sent" to water baptize (1Co 1:17 AV) }, For The Body Of
Christ, Given By Christ From Heaven:
Only ONE Baptism = "BY" The ONE Spirit = God's OPERATION,
Spiritually "Identifying" members In (The Body Of) CHRIST!!
(Ephesians 4:5; Colossians 2:12; Galatians 3:27; Romans 6:3-4;
1 Corinthians 12:13 AV)
Amen.
Also helpful:
UnScriptural or UNdispensational?
In God's Context of Prophecy, Covenants and Law for the Twelve tribes
of Israel, Given to the Twelve [ who "were sent" to water baptize ] apostles,
By 'Christ on the earth':
The Two "Main" (of 12) baptismS =
A) water, "For remission of sins!":
(Matthew 3:5-6; Mark 1:4; Luke 3:3; John 1:31; Luke 7:29-30; Acts 10:37)
(Matthew 28:19; Mark 16:16; Acts 2:38; Acts 22:16; Ezekiel 36:25 AV)
+
B) "With" The Holy Spirit, Poured Out
By CHRIST, for power, signs And wonders!
(Isaiah 44:3; Matthew 3:11; Mark 1:8, 16:17-18; Luke 24:49;
Acts 2:17-18, 38; Acts 8:15-17; Acts 11:16 AV)
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15 AV) From “Things That Differ!” (online):
In God's Other Context Of Mystery and GRACE! - Given to One apostle
{ who was "Not sent" to water baptize (1Co 1:17 AV) }, For The Body Of
Christ, Given By Christ From Heaven:
Only ONE Baptism = "BY" The ONE Spirit = God's OPERATION,
Spiritually "Identifying" members In (The Body Of) CHRIST!!
(Ephesians 4:5; Colossians 2:12; Galatians 3:27; Romans 6:3-4;
1 Corinthians 12:13 AV)
Amen.
Also helpful:
UnScriptural or UNdispensational?
Abel
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Joseph
Moses
Aaron
Phinehas
Miriam
Bezalel
Oholiab
Seventy Israelite Leaders
Eldad
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Joshua
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Barak
Gideon
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David
Samuel
Jabez
Ahimaaz
Amasai
Obed-Edom
Elijah
Zechariah
Isaiah
Micah
Hezekiah
Jacob/Israel
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Ezekiel
Daniel
Belteshazzar
Ezra
Nehemiah
New Testament (before Christ)
Elizabeth
Zechariah
John the Baptist
Simeon
Mary
Peter
Barnabas
Job
Abraham
Judah
Issachar
Joseph
Moses
Aaron
Phinehas
Miriam
Bezalel
Oholiab
Seventy Israelite Leaders
Eldad
Medad
Caleb
Joshua
Othniel
Barak
Gideon
Tola
Jair
Jephthah
Samson
David
Samuel
Jabez
Ahimaaz
Amasai
Obed-Edom
Elijah
Zechariah
Isaiah
Micah
Hezekiah
Jacob/Israel
Jeremiah
Ezekiel
Daniel
Belteshazzar
Ezra
Nehemiah
New Testament (before Christ)
Elizabeth
Zechariah
John the Baptist
Simeon
Mary
Peter
Barnabas
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2 Timothy 2:23-26 NKJV - "But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife. And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will."
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it’s not about Noah—it’s about how WATER is used as an agent in salvation. 8 souls were SAVED by water ( the flood)verse 20. Baptism is the ANTITYPE Which SAVES US. He is saying the waters of baptism SAVES US just like the waters of the flood saved 8 souls in the flood. An ANTITYPE in the New Testament is foreshadowed by the TYPE in the Old Testament. The flood of Noah is used as a Metaphor for the waters of baptism. God could not have made it any plainer. I’m just asking you to honestly consider what God is saying.
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