Saved by faith alone?

[rogerg]

yes that is bout the levitical priesthood i know this well. We don't need this anymore since the sacrifices ate no more because Christ paid for us all on the Cross with his Life, but it does not mean the ten commandments are null and void what you refer to is from the Law of Moses. the law of Moses were Kept Outside tha arl of the covenant.

what laws changed then and what are they?

Scripture does not divide the law into two separate categories as you suggest. In Hebrews 9:1–4, the 'tables of the covenant' inside the Ark are explicitly listed as part of the first covenant system which was ended by Jesus Christ. In 2 Corinthians 3:7, Paul refers to the ministry 'carved in letters on stone' - that being the Ten Commandments -and states that this administration was brought to an end for the New Covenant, where the Spirit gives life not the Commandments.

The law was changed in Christ. The Law replacing, is the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus.

Do you understand what it means that Jesus Christ is the Savior? Do you realize that those saved are no longer under
works of law.

(I included only the verses I deemed directly relevant to your post, so some were skipped)

[Eph 2:14-16 KJV]
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition [between us];
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

[2Co 3:6-8, 11 KJV]
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
7 But if the ministration of death, written [and] engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which [glory] was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? ...
11 For if that which is done away [was] glorious, much more that which remaineth [is] glorious.

[Heb 9:1-4 KJV]
1 Then verily the first [covenant] had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein [was] the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary. 3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;
4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein [was] the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;

 

[Genez]

Why have such a command...

Thou shall not commit adultery.

When, if you are filled with the Spirit, and being led?
You no longer need to be told.

That is why we now fulfill the Law.

 

[Genez]

No one has claimed otherwise. This is just you giving a perfectly good answer to questions never asked. Try to stay on point.

I am trying to direct you towards the real point.

 

[2Christ]

I understand. God bless

Scripture does not divide the law into two separate categories as you suggest. In Hebrews 9:1–4, the 'tables of the covenant' inside the Ark are explicitly listed as part of the first covenant system which was ended by Jesus Christ. In 2 Corinthians 3:7, Paul refers to the ministry 'carved in letters on stone' - that being the Ten Commandments -and states that this administration was brought to an end for the New Covenant, where the Spirit gives life not the Commandments.

The law was changed in Christ. The Law replacing, is the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus.

Do you understand what it means that Jesus Christ is the Savior? Do you realize that those saved are no longer under
works of law.

(I included only the verses I deemed directly relevant to your post, so some were skipped)

[Eph 2:14-16 KJV]
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition [between us];
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

[2Co 3:6-8, 11 KJV]
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
7 But if the ministration of death, written [and] engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which [glory] was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? ...
11 For if that which is done away [was] glorious, much more that which remaineth [is] glorious.

[Heb 9:1-4 KJV]
1 Then verily the first [covenant] had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein [was] the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary. 3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;
4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein [was] the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;

Believe what you will Roger Christ did not waste his time explaining the ten commandments for nothing and saying that to enter into life to follow them. Did what Jesus says does not count for you? if it irrelevant?

 

[2Christ]

Scripture does not divide the law into two separate categories as you suggest. In Hebrews 9:1–4, the 'tables of the covenant' inside the Ark are explicitly listed as part of the first covenant system which was ended by Jesus Christ. In 2 Corinthians 3:7, Paul refers to the ministry 'carved in letters on stone' - that being the Ten Commandments -and states that this administration was brought to an end for the New Covenant, where the Spirit gives life not the Commandments.

The law was changed in Christ. The Law replacing, is the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus.

Do you understand what it means that Jesus Christ is the Savior? Do you realize that those saved are no longer under
works of law.

(I included only the verses I deemed directly relevant to your post, so some were skipped)

[Eph 2:14-16 KJV]
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition [between us];
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

[2Co 3:6-8, 11 KJV]
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
7 But if the ministration of death, written [and] engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which [glory] was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? ...
11 For if that which is done away [was] glorious, much more that which remaineth [is] glorious.

[Heb 9:1-4 KJV]
1 Then verily the first [covenant] had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein [was] the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary. 3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;
4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein [was] the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;

you forgot to answer these questions Roger:"what laws changed then and what are they?"

 

[rogerg]

you forgot to answer these questions Roger:"what laws changed then and what are they?"

I didn't forget. My answer was included in my reply to you, 2Christ. They were replaced by the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus when Jesus perfectly completed His offering/sacrifice

 

[2Christ]

I didn't forget. My answer was included in my reply to you, 2Christ. They were replaced by the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus when Jesus perfectly completed His offering/sacrifice

please define this:"hey were replaced by the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus when Jesus perfectly completed His offering/sacrifice"

what does that entails what must i do what is this law of Christ?

 

[rogerg]

Believe what you will Roger Christ did not waste his time explaining the ten commandments for nothing and saying that to enter into life to follow them. Did what Jesus says does not count for you? if it irrelevant?

If keeping the stone commandments is how we enter into eternal life today, then salvation would be based on our own perfect legal performance under the law, which contradicts the gospel. Christ did not waste His time; He perfectly fulfilled the law so that under the New Covenant, our eternal life was given by Him, not by our own ability to keep the Sinai covenant. As I said previously, 2Christ, you do not grasp that Jesus Christ alone is the Savior, and as the Savior, that salvation is through Him, not through the keeping of law. The two concepts are in complete and total contradiction to each other.

 

[frederickdoc]

How about by NIKE? pretty sure that Nike is written ,out does Faith 1 Jn?

 

[rogerg]

please define this:"hey were replaced by the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus when Jesus perfectly completed His offering/sacrifice"

what does that entails what must i do what is this law of Christ?

The whole point is that neither you, nor I, nor anyone else can satisfy it, and that is why it states "Spirit of life in Christ Jesus" - that only God can place someone in Christ Jesus and makes it by grace not by our works in keeping the law or commandments. If/when God does so, then nothing else is required nor possible on the part of the one whom He places in Christ. Read the below verse

[1Co 1:30 KJV] 30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

 

[frederickdoc]

Who should know This? Them questioning salvation for those who have it ?
For whatsoever is Born of God Overcometh the World: and this is The Nike, that Overcometh the World, even our Faith
why don't we Enjoy The nike and look forward to the Next Nike." ? You're talking about salvation & Sin all the time that means something's missing . you want to know Ti be daved firgiven why don't you just use all of the attributes of the Lord they're 16 listed plain + gifts
I go to about 59 so,.far in word.
128 is 7 Fold Holy Spirit . at The least if Grow see who the friends are in The Anointing that holds 7fold same

 

[2Christ]

If keeping the stone commandments is how we enter into eternal life today, then salvation would be based on our own perfect legal performance under the law, which contradicts the gospel. Christ did not waste His time; He perfectly fulfilled the law so that under the New Covenant, our eternal life was given by Him, not by our own ability to keep the Sinai covenant. As I said previously, 2Christ, you do not grasp that Jesus Christ alone is the Savior, and as the Savior, that salvation is through Him, not through the keeping of law. The two concepts are in complete and total contradiction to each other.

Roger you got it all wrong, what happened when Christ died on the cross? the temple veil was rent in 2, that is a veil that keeps people away from the ark of the covenant except for the Levetical priest who once a year sprinkled blood on the Mercy Seat, from that time on Now at this time we have direct access to God Through Christ our Lord in heaven seated next to God. Yes Roger Christ not Paul is sitting there, Jesus being one with God did speak of the covenant that is the ten commandments to be followed to enter eternal life. that is what changed, he promised to sent the Holy Spirit to help us, all is possible from the time Jesus did this this is what changes, the Holy Spirit puts these commandments we have to keep in our hearts, we now ( at least some of us) know them and follow them.....

The whole point is that neither you, nor I, nor anyone else can satisfy it, and that is why it states "Spirit of life in Christ Jesus" - that only God can place someone in Christ Jesus and makes it by grace not by our works in keeping the law or commandments. If/when God does so, then nothing else is required nor possible on the part of the one whom He places in Christ. Read the below verse

[1Co 1:30 KJV] 30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

as expected you dont know..... Roger its so simple Jesus said it all, if you do what he said you cannot and will not go wrong, do you place Paul epistles before the words of Jesus who is One with God?

 

[rogerg]

Roger you got it all wrong, what happened when Christ died on the cross? the temple veil was rent in 2, that is a veil that keeps people away from the ark of the covenant except for the Levetical priest who once a year sprinkled blood on the Mercy Seat, from that time on Now at this time we have direct access to God Through Christ our Lord in heaven seated next to God. Yes Roger Christ not Paul is sitting there, Jesus being one with God did speak of the covenant that is the ten commandments to be followed to enter eternal life. that is what changed, he promised to sent the Holy Spirit to help us, all is possible from the time Jesus did this this is what changes, the Holy Spirit puts these commandments we have to keep in our hearts, we now ( at least some of us) know them and follow them.....

as expected you dont know..... Roger its so simple Jesus said it all, if you do what he said you cannot and will not go wrong, do you place Paul epistles before the words of Jesus who is One with God

We enter into eternal life because we are established in Christ by God - Christ alone is the Savior - not because we successfully keep the stone commandments

Thanks for the discussion. It is clear we see the relationship between the covenants differently, but I am content to leave my position where it stands with the scriptures already shared.

 

[DavidLamb]

How about by NIKE? pretty sure that Nike is written ,out does Faith 1 Jn?

Nike, the Greek word for victory? Where are we told that we are saved by victory? Yes, victory is involved, because if Jesus Christ was not victorious over sin and death, we would not be saved. As for victory outdoing faith, that is not what 1 John says. The only verse in 1 John where victory is mentioned is this one:

NKJV 1Jn 5:4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

So faith in the Lord Jesus Christ is the victory that we have over the world. As the next verse says:

NKJV 1Jn 5:5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

 

[frederickdoc]

Who should know This? Them questioning salvation for those who have it ?
For whatsoever is Born of God Overcometh the World: and this is The Nike, that Overcometh the World, even our Faith
why don't we Enjoy The nike and look forward to the Next Nike." ? You're talking about salvation & Sin all the time that means something's missing . you want to know Ti be daved firgiven why don't you just use all of the attributes of the Lord they're 16 listed plain + gifts
I go to about 59 so,.far in word.
128 is 7 Fold Holy Spirit . at The least if Grow see who the friends are in The Anointing that holds 7fold same

He is the Author and Finisher: Hebrews 12:2 (KJV) says we should be "Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith." He is the one who starts it, and He is the one who completes it. This is not a future this is a Now come celebrate with the Lord God Almighty Jesus nike as the scripture above 1jn Born of God is The Overcoming even Faith . I always had faith from a child + religion zeal but wasnt Saved till i Got the Holy Spirit .I actualky had to let my faith Go to know, To be in Jesus victory tour rest .
if i had to teach a maybe Fruit aline i would have to Say Knowledge not like men think a mean hands on knowledge mountain moving power of God Nike i get the apostel share their event but dine think anyone is going to duplicate their knowledge it's just the perfect example . The change ain't going to be broken or doors open the same way they shared their own amazing events and they use the words the glorify God saying love Grace peace all the attributes we don't have to say it in the spirit but they were doing it for our sake to know Him. Well I could use compassion I could see you could save by compassion another had compassion on somebody and I didn't want to be there I wanted to leave. The man i was with was not a believer but that man had more compassion for another man than I did or took the time to spend with him finally I gave in
that was an incredible event I'll put it like this way ,when it was all over All animals creatures around were Crying out very Loud as if they Seen God. Jesus had a long fought battle like Abraham after Nike The Kings meet up and the Greater king brings the Gift and They all kings celebrate in the victory Nike .this is what and where we are to be, in jesus Victory Nike This is in me from above and its not gonna be exactly as another but ... No paul Peter any prophet but i assure Its of The same power Spirit The is Holy

 

[2Christ]

If keeping the stone commandments is how we enter into eternal life today, then salvation would be based on our own perfect legal performance under the law, which contradicts the gospel. Christ did not waste His time; He perfectly fulfilled the law so that under the New Covenant, our eternal life was given by Him, not by our own ability to keep the Sinai covenant. As I said previously, 2Christ, you do not grasp that Jesus Christ alone is the Savior, and as the Savior, that salvation is through Him, not through the keeping of law. The two concepts are in complete and total contradiction to each other.

you invent doctrine as you go along, Christ mentioned perfection, in matthew 5:48;"Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect." he forgives if we fall if we repent, but you know very well he said "if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments." and then enumerated the ten commandments it cannot be more clear than this is it an absolute requirement to enter Heaven because he said so. Now do what you will , its the Choice God gives us all.

salvation is through Christ certainly but few will make it;

13Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it. (Matthew 7:13-14)

Jesus also said;

But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say ? (Luke 6:46)

Do not forget it is by his words that we shall be judged.

 

[rogerg]

you invent doctrine as you go along, Christ mentioned perfection, in matthew 5:48;"Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect." he forgives if we fall if we repent, but you know very well he said "if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments." and then enumerated the ten commandments it cannot be more clear than this is it an absolute requirement to enter Heaven because he said so. Now do what you will , its the Choice God gives us all.

salvation is through Christ certainly but few will make it;

13Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it. (Matthew 7:13-14)

Jesus also said;

But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say ? (Luke 6:46)

Do not forget it is by his words that we shall be judged.

Your statements make it clear that you place your trust for righteousness and salvation in your works of the law, while I trust fully and completely in God’s mercy and grace through the perfectly finished work of Jesus Christ as my Savior - and through God's grace do not trust even to the smallest degree - in any of my own works for righteousness, nor do I desire to. Since we follow fundamentally different and contradictory gospels, continuing this discussion would not be worthwhile, therefore, I consider it closed.

 

[pinebeach]

you invent doctrine as you go along, Christ mentioned perfection, in matthew 5:48;"Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect." he forgives if we fall if we repent, but you know very well he said "if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments." and then enumerated the ten commandments it cannot be more clear than this is it an absolute requirement to enter Heaven because he said so. Now do what you will , its the Choice God gives us all.

Well someone is inventing doctrine

Did Jesus fulfill all the requirements of the law or not? Did Jesus present Himself sinless and therefore able to be the perfect and final sacrifice or not> Did Jesus say 'It is finished!' or not?

Jesus was not speaking to believers who saw a risen Lord before them. He was speaking to Jews who had been brought up under the law and were STILL UNDER THE LAW. We are believers are not under the law and Jesus was not telling us to keep the commandments. That, is a bad understanding of both the law and salvation.

The only requirement for acceptance by God the Father whether here or in the next world to come, is believing in Christ and His sacrifice according to the will of God and not trying to do one better by 'keeping' laws. If it were possible to please God through law keeping, Christ would not have had to die.

The choice God actually does give to us, is accepting His Son as having died in our place and bearing the full wrath of God which was our due. There is no other way but through the Lord Jesus Christ.

salvation is through Christ certainly but few will make it;

Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. (John 5:24)

All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out… And this is the will of him who sent me; that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. (John 6:37, 39)

For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 8:38-39)

He will also keep you firm to the end, so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, who has called you into fellowship with his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord. (1 Corinthians 1:8-9)

 

[2Christ]

Your statements make it clear that you place your trust for righteousness and salvation in your works of the law, while I trust fully and completely in God’s mercy and grace through the perfectly finished work of Jesus Christ as my Savior - and through God's grace do not trust even to the smallest degree - in any of my own works for righteousness, nor do I desire to. Since we follow fundamentally different and contradictory gospels, continuing this discussion would not be worthwhile, therefore, I consider it closed.

not at all I place all my trust in Jesus I believe what he saya and will do as he asked. Good luck to you Roger.

 

[frederickdoc]

I think

Nike, the Greek word for victory? Where are we told that we are saved by victory? Yes, victory is involved, because if Jesus Christ was not victorious over sin and death, we would not be saved. As for victory outdoing faith, that is not what 1 John says. The only verse in 1 John where victory is mentioned is this one:

NKJV 1Jn 5:4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

So faith in the Lord Jesus Christ is the victory that we have over the world. As the next verse says:

NKJV 1Jn 5:5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

you were asked to give meaning to that scripture si i just push it for you .i notice jesus nostly only spoke faith After The event was magnified. Or take about a tiny seed moving mountain .basically they had it ti use but lack at dame tik oh yea of little faith was a kind was of saying no Faith
point is without the 7fold its just word repeated of peter paul any ..So u pointed out that it is a chained rekation to let just stick to the 16 attributes of the spirit Kisted plainly as Paul wrote ref to Isaiah's list but paul used more of the Spirit from jesus wording and others . Isaiah probably listed as anointed king or priest the presence on the outside ,not inside .. Then Paul added the indwelling attributes of the Spirit within the Anointing in cut out space in Heart.
. my simple explanation of the two old & new blessing . yet i don't need to focus on the old Anointing much! .its the inner amplified Anointing that has All of Jesus Lord God what does the Bible say not of hand s .