Saved by faith alone?

[DavidLamb]

then its meaningless!

your boss at work says you are to fill out a 30 min report at the end of each day summarizing your days work

will you do if its

required to have employment?

what if its voluntary?

thks

But using your analogy, you already have employment. He wouldn't be your boss otherwise. Filling in (or "filling out" as Americans say) a thirty minute report at the end of each day is not something required to get the employment. You cannot summarise your day's work in a report if you don't have a job. Similarly, the "good works" of Ephesians 2:10 are not to get salvation - Paul has already stated that salvation is not gained by our works - but are a result of having been saved.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I am continuing to be being saved by continuing to receive Jesus as Saviour and Lord.

Well good luck with this.

I have been saved (a completed act) By Grace, because I trusted in him, and not myself

Everything we need for life and godliness is being given to us with and in our Lord Jesus Christ. If I am ever rejecting Jesus, I am also rejecting all that is given to us in Him. IfI start receiving HIm again, I start receiving again everything that comes with and in Him.

Do you trust God. or do you trust your ability to keep trusting God?

It sounds as if your trust in God is up and down. why is this? What purpose would you ever have to stop trusting him to keep you in him and keep his promise he made to you.. that you claim you recieved when you first called out to him?

 

[Wansvic]

the word immersion is not found in scripture!

sprinkle is found
ez 36:25-27

25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

thks

Ezekiel is using the language of Old Testament purification rituals, not prescribing the method of New Testament baptism.

The New Testament consistently describes baptism using the Greek word baptizō, meaning "to immerse, dip, or plunge." The examples fit immersion:

• Jesus came "straightway out of the water" (Matt. 3:16).
• John baptized where there was "much water" (John 3:23).
• Philip and the Ethiopian "went down both into the water" and "came up out of the water" (Acts 8:38–39).
• Paul compares baptism to a burial with Christ (Rom. 6:3–4; Col. 2:12).

Ezekiel's "sprinkling" describes the effect of God's cleansing.

Notice the New Testament connection of Eze. 36:25–27, Jer. 31:31–34, John 3:5, Acts 2:38, Titus 3:5, and Heb. 10:22 they all point to the same New Covenant reality:

• God cleanses from sin.
• God gives a new heart.
• God places His Spirit within His people.
• God enables them to walk in His ways.

Viewed together, Ezekiel 36 is a prophetic picture of the new birth that Jesus announced and the apostles proclaimed. The New Testament presents repentance, baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and the gift of the Holy Ghost as the historical fulfillment of the covenant promises Ezekiel foresaw.

 

[Wansvic]

in the name of Jesus?

mt 28:19

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:


thks

Yes—in the name of Jesus.

I fully believe Matthew 28:19. The question is not whether Jesus commanded baptism "in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." The question is: How did the apostles understand and obey that command?

When we read the book of Acts, every recorded baptism after Jesus gave Matthew 28:19 was performed in the name of Jesus Christ.

Acts 2:38 – "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ..."
Acts 8:16 – They "were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus."
Acts 10:48 – Peter "commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord."
Acts 19:5 – They "were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus."

There is not a single example in Acts of anyone being baptized while the words "Father, Son, and Holy Ghost" were spoken instead of the name of Jesus.

This makes sense because Jesus said to baptize in the name (singular), not "in the names." The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are not three different names. The Son's revealed name is Jesus, and Jesus said, "I am come in my Father's name" (John 5:43). The Holy Ghost is sent in Jesus' name (John 14:26).

The apostles had spent over three years learning directly from Jesus. If they all consistently baptized in the name of Jesus after receiving the Great Commission, I believe they were not ignoring Matthew 28:19—they were obeying it exactly as Jesus intended.

So the issue is not Matthew 28:19 versus Acts 2:38. It is whether the apostles correctly understood Jesus' command. Since they were personally taught by Christ and filled with the Holy Ghost, surely their practice in Acts is the inspired interpretation of Matthew 28:19.

 

[dkontner]

Jesus is the fullness of the godhead bodily. He didn't say 'the Son' is the way, 'the Spirit' is the truth and the 'Father' is life, which the scriptures clearly teach. He said...

John 14
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
....
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

In His name we 'should' be baptised just as the apostles did.

 

[TrustandObey]

If baptism were not by immersion, why would Philip and the Ethiopian have needed to go down into the water?

If baptism is not needed why go down into the water at all? Is it not a suggested but unneeded act of obedience?

Should he have not waited until he got back to Ethiopia and profess his conversion before his countrymen?

Now when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught Philip away, so that the eunuch saw him no more; and he went on his way rejoicing.

The only mention of rejoicing is after the baptism.

 

[Wansvic]

You did not answer my question.

Here is what you stated.

Is Luke a chosen apostle?
No. Luke was not one of the Twelve. But neither was Mark, Jude, or the writer of Hebrews (if one believes Paul did not write it). The authority of a biblical book rests on the Holy Spirit's inspiration, not on whether the human author was one of the Twelve.

I did answer your question: "No. Luke was not one of the Twelve. But neither was Mark, Jude, or the writer of Hebrews (if one believes Paul did not write it). The authority of a biblical book rests on the Holy Spirit's inspiration not on whether the human author was one of the Twelve."

 

[Wansvic]

Where does the scripture state "total immersion"?

John 13:10
Jesus said to him, “He who has bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean".

Ezekiel is using the language of Old Testament purification rituals, not prescribing the method of New Testament baptism.

The New Testament consistently describes baptism using the Greek word baptizō, meaning "to immerse, dip, or plunge." The examples fit immersion:

• Jesus came "straightway out of the water" (Matthew 3:16).
• John baptized where there was "much water" (John 3:23).
• Philip and the Ethiopian "went down both into the water" and "came up out of the water" (Acts 8:38–39).
• Paul compares baptism to a burial with Christ (Romans 6:3–4; Colossians 2:12), imagery that naturally fits immersion.

Therefore, Ezekiel's "sprinkling" describes the effect of God's cleansing, while New Testament baptism reveals the ordinance through which believers identify with Christ's death, burial, and resurrection.

 

[GWH]

Re the OP: Sinners are saved by God alone via faith in GRFS as revealed:

6. The Christian creed summarizes revelation of the NT Gospel/Truth (Matt. 26:13, John 14:6), which fulfilled the OT revelation (Matt. 5:17, John 19:30, Heb. 7:11-10:10) and culminates the search for salvation by souls who know only general revelation (Rom. 1:20, 2:14-16, Matt. 7:12). Seeking begins when souls love truth/repent of false beliefs (2Thes. 2:10&13, Matt. 4:17, 7:7), which is the Way to eternal life God wills, who is the Lord Jesus (Matt. 7:14, John 1:14, 4:24, 14:6). Lacking this love leads to believing lies and debauchery (Matt. 7:6, Rom. 1:18&25-26, 2Thes. 2:11-12).

 

[amazingrace]

As far as works are concerned, Paul told the Christians at Ephesus that good works was what they were created in Christ/saved for:

(Eph 2:8-10 NKJV) For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

So how can works after salvation be meaningless?

the purpose of our creation is to know love and serve God!

Lk 1:75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

Romans 2:7
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
(eternal salvation)

thks

 

[DavidLamb]

If baptism is not needed why go down into the water at all? Is it not a suggested but unneeded act of obedience?

Should he have not waited until he got back to Ethiopia and profess his conversion before his countrymen?


The only mention of rejoicing is after the baptism.

I did not mention the matter of whether baptism is needed. I was answering a post which seemed to be saying that sprinkling was the biblical method of baptism.

Baptism is not a matter of need, but obedience for those who have been saved. When we read the account of the Philippian jailer in Acts 16, we find that he and the others in his household believed, and then were baptized. The same with the Ethiopian with whom Philip had dealings. He asked Philip for baptism. Then we read:

(Act 8:37) Then Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may." And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."

Then he was baptized.

 

[dkontner]

Most modern translations remove Acts 8:37.

 

[Wansvic]

The authority of a biblical book rests on the Holy Spirit's inspiration, not on whether the human author was one of the Twelve.

How about you explain what "inspired" means first so that we are on the same page?

It is God's revelation given through human authors whom He directed by His Spirit. God sovereignly guided each writer so that the finished writings communicated exactly what He intended. This is why Scripture can honestly be called both the Word of God and the writings of men.

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"
(2 Timothy 3:16, KJV)

Peter explains how Scripture was produced:

"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."
(2 Peter 1:20-21, KJV)

The prophets did not invent God's message. They spoke and wrote because the Holy Ghost moved them.
Throughout the Old Testament God repeatedly told His prophets:

• "Write these words..." (Ex. 34:27)
• "Write the vision..." (Hab. 2:2)
• "Take thee a roll of a book, and write therein all the words that I have spoken unto thee..." (Jer. 36:2)

This demonstrates that God intended His revelation to be recorded accurately for future generations.



Jesus repeatedly appealed to Scripture as the final authority.

"It is written..."
(Matthew 4:4, 7, 10)

"The scripture cannot be broken."
(John 10:35)

"Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law..."
(Matt. 5:18)

A "jot" and a "tittle" were the smallest marks in the Hebrew text, showing Jesus' confidence in the reliability of Scripture.



Peter referred to Paul's letters alongside "the other scriptures." This shows that even during the apostolic era, inspired writings were already being recognized as Scripture.

"...our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you...

...which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures..."
(2 Peter 3:15-16, KJV)

Scripture is inspired by God, it is our final authority for faith and practice. Human traditions, opinions, experiences, and religious customs must all be tested by God's Word.

This is why the Bereans were commended:

"They received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."
(Acts 17:11, KJV)

The Bible is the inspired Word of God because God Himself is its ultimate Author. He used holy men who were moved by the Holy Ghost to write His message without surrendering their individual personalities. As a result, Scripture is both fully God's Word and faithfully recorded through human writers, making it the supreme authority for doctrine, salvation, and Christian living.

 

[Wansvic]

Baptism is not a matter of need, but obedience for those who have been saved. When we read the account of the Philippian jailer in Acts 16, we find that he and the others in his household believed, and then were baptized. The same with the Ethiopian with whom Philip had dealings. He asked Philip for baptism. Then we read:

(Act 8:37) Then Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may." And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."

Then he was baptized.

The examples you cited actually demonstrate that water baptism was presented as an essential part of the gospel message they heard and believed.

In Acts 8, the Ethiopian was responding to Philip's "preaching unto him Jesus" (Acts 8:35), and whatever Philip preached about Jesus included water baptism, because the eunuch immediately asked, "See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?" (Acts 8:36). That question only makes sense if Philip had already explained both the need for baptism and its significance. The eunuch believed what Philip preached, confessed his faith in Christ, and then obeyed by being baptized.

The Philippian jailer is no different. After asking, "What must I do to be saved?" Paul and Silas "spake unto him the word of the Lord" (Acts 16:31-32). Luke does not record every word of that conversation, but the immediate response tells us what was included. The jailer and his household were baptized "the same hour of the night" (Acts 16:33). Why such urgency in the middle of the night unless baptism had been presented as an essential response to the gospel they had just heard?

In both accounts, baptism was not an afterthought or a later act of public testimony. It was part of the apostolic message. They first had to hear why water baptism was necessary, then believe that message, and only then did they obey it. People do not immediately seek baptism unless they have first been taught that it is God's appointed response to the gospel.

The consistent pattern throughout Acts is that the apostles preached Christ in such a way that believing people understood the necessity of repentance and water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ. Their immediate obedience demonstrates not only faith in Christ, but faith in what Christ commanded through His apostles.

 

[amazingrace]

It's not a contradiction. We cannot be saved by doing good works, but having been saved by grace, we are to do good works as a result of having been saved.

no scripture says so

the solution: "initial the grace of justification"!

Jn 15:5 apart from Christ? nothing!

nothing of merit or value in God's eyes! nothing spiritual or supernatural, nothing meriting eternal salvation!

phil 4:13 with Christ? all things!

union

By the grace of justification received by faith and baptism we have union with God thru Christ, in the communion of saints, empowered by grace and life in the spirit to attain to eternal salvation on glory!

Our good works after we receive the grace of justification are transformed by grace and performed in grace united with Christ and given life of the spirit because of God's grace operating in us!

we do not possess eternal salvation in this life, but the grace of God that must be increased by good works (mt 7:7 mt 26:41 2 pet 3:18) and can be lost by deadly sin! (Eph 5:2-6
gal 5:1-4 gal 5:19-21 gal 6:7-8
1 cor 6:9-10 & 15-20)


mk 10:30
...in the world to come eternal life.

John 4:36
...gathereth fruit unto life eternal:

John 10:28
And I give unto them eternal life...

John 12:25
He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

Romans 5:21
That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Jude 1:21
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

thks

 

[amazingrace]

It's not a contradiction. We cannot be saved by doing good works, but having been saved by grace, we are to do good works as a result of having been saved.

Not salvation cos it CANNOT be lost!

We have grace!

Jn 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

Jn 10:10 life and life more abundantly

Grace can be lost!

Eph 5:2-6 children of disobedience shall not inherit the kingdom of God
gal 5:1-4 fallen from grace
gal 5:19-21 shall not inherit the kingdom of God
gal 6:7-8 sow and reap
1 cor 6:9-10 & 15-20 shall not inherit the kingdom of God
1 tim 5:12 lost faith
Hebrews 6:4-6 fall away
rev 21:8 sin buys the lake of fire
rev 21:27 sin keeps us out of heaven
rom 8:1 gace lost by sin
gal 5:4 can fall from grace
1 cor 15:10 can have grace in vain
2 cor 4:7 treasure (grace) in earthen vessels
1 Jn 3:15 no life (grace)
Jn 15:5 apart from Christ? NOTHING!
2 Peter 1:10 diligence to make your calling and election sure
Luke 15:24 my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found.



we belong to God in holiness!

1 cor 6:15-20

15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.

16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.

17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

We belong to God and have no right to sin or sell ourselves in bondage to the reformation plantation!

thks

 

[amazingrace]

In regard to Romans 2:7, patient continuance in well doing, seeking for glory, honor, and immortality; is not at all set forth as the means of their procuring eternal life, but as a description of those to whom God does render life eternal.

*Notice that ALL who receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does good (vs. 10). Good deeds flow from a heart that is saved and evil deeds flow from a heart that is unsaved. Verse 8 - but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath.

*Notice that ALL who do not receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does evil (vs. 9). What those passages convey is that though our deeds are judged by God, it's not the good deeds themselves which are the basis or means by which we receive eternal life, but the type of deeds expose our hearts.

These good deeds done out of faith are the fruit, but not the root of salvation. If Paul wanted to teach that we are saved by works, then he would have clearly stated that we are saved through faith and works in Ephesians 2:8 and that we are justified by faith and works in Romans 5:1 but that is clearly NOT what Paul said. *Also see (Romans 3:24-28; 4:4-6; 11:6; Philippians 3:9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..).

In regard to Hebrews 10:36, sanctification and perseverance are not about type 2 works salvation/salvation by works at the back door. God’s promises are certain and binding because God is faithful. (Hebrews 10:23) In Hebrews 10:38, we read - "Now the just shall live by faith; but if anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him." The issue is faith. True faith endures because God keeps His own. That is why Peter says believers are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." (1 Peter 1:5)

In Hebrews 10:39, we read - "But we are not of those who draw back to perdition; but of those who believe to the saving of the soul." Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition. Perseverance proves who really does belong to Christ.

rom 2:6-8

6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

vs 6 renders eternal life to those who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality.

"is not at all set forth as the means of their procuring eternal life, but as a description"
do those who obey unrighteousness get rewarded with the wrath of God?
thks
we belong to God in holiness!

1 cor 6:15-20

15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.

16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.

17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

We belong to God and have no right to sin or sell ourselves in bondage to the reformation plantation!

 

[PaulThomson]

Well good luck with this.

I have been saved (a completed act) By Grace, because I trusted in him, and not myself

Do you trust God. or do you trust your ability to keep trusting God?

It sounds as if your trust in God is up and down. why is this? What purpose would you ever have to stop trusting him to keep you in him and keep his promise he made to you.. that you claim you recieved when you first called out to him?

Why would I be receiving Jesus as Lord and Saviour, if I am not trusting Him to be able to be saving me? Why would I be receiving Jesus as Lord and Saviour, if I am not trusting Him to keep the promises He has made to me?

It seems we might understand differently what His promises are and what they mean. I am not required to interpret His words and his promises in the same way you interpret them. My relationship with God is defined by the understanding Jesus and I have of one another, not by your opinions of how Jesus and i should understand each other.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Why would I be receiving Jesus as Lord and Saviour, if I am not trusting Him to be able to be saving me? Why would I be receiving Jesus as Lord and Saviour, if I am not trusting Him to keep the promises He has made to me?

Has he saved you. Or has he not?

It seems we might understand differently what His promises are and what they mean. I am not required to interpret His words and his promises in the same way you interpret them. My relationship with God is defined by the understanding Jesus and I have of one another, not by your opinions of how Jesus and i should understand each other.

Are you saved?
Do you have eternal life?
Do you have Jesus promise you will have eternal life and not come to judgment?
Have you recieved every spiritual blessing under heaven?
Are you sitting in the heavenly places?

Jesus promised all of these and more..

Are they you hope that you have, in assurance, or are you hoping you might get them?

 

[maximc]

Does the phrase, "saved by faith" equivalent to the term, "saved by faith alone"?

The answer is "Yes", we are saved by faith alone. That does not mean works are irrelevant. Works are very much required for our salvation. However, these works are an outcome of our salvation as per Eph. 2:10 which says that our salvation is "unto good works". If we remove the word "alone" from faith, it implies that we can do something outside of Jesus for our salvation which we cannot. According to Phi. 1:6, it is God who began a good work in us and he will continue to do so until Jesus returns. What is that good work that God is doing in us? It is transformation. We are being transformed into the image of Christ as we walk in the Spirit. It is this transformation that is causing us to do good works.