Saved by faith alone?

[Cameron143]

To save anyone?
You must make first salvation possible.

Having tunnel vision kills the life of the Word's power.

You are an authority on killing the Word's power. Actually, if you understood the source of the power, you would understand why no one can kill the power of life of Christ.

Again, you focus on man rather than God. You demonstrate my point for me.

 

[Genez]

You are an authority on killing the Word's power. Actually, if you understood the source of the power, you would understand why no one can kill the power of life of Christ.

Again, you focus on man rather than God. You demonstrate my point for me.

Hello, Mr, Gaslighting 101.


People that distort and think like you are the reason someone invented blow up dolls.
They must get their own way, "sovereignly."

And, no life in return.

 

[Cameron143]

Hello, Mr, Gaslighting 101.


People that distort and think like you are the reason someone invented blow up dolls.
They must get their own way, "sovereignly."

And, no life.

And those who focus on man and not God lose focus altogether.

Why do you take the time to study God's word?

 

[Genez]

You are an authority on killing the Word's power. Actually, if you understood the source of the power, you would understand why no one can kill the power of life of Christ.

Again, you focus on man rather than God. You demonstrate my point for me.

I simply include man in my focus.

You know? Man?
The one whom God saves?

Or, should we ignore man completely?

 

[Cameron143]

I simply include man in my focus.

You know? Man?
The one whom God saves?

Or, should we ignore man completely?

You can answer your own question: should we focus on the Creator or the creature? To the extent we focus on the creature, it is focused on to magnify the Creator.

 

[Genez]

Calvinists are so brainwashed.

You can answer your own question: should we focus on the Creator or the creature? To the extent we focus on the creature, it is focused on to magnify the Creator.

Cameron....

You juggle vanity.
And, some find it entertaining.

Meaningless.

 

[rogerg]

It is finished refers to the passover

"effects of salvation working inside a believer, not the cause of salvation" how do you know this?

mk 13:13 mt 10:22 mt 24:13 he who endures to the end shall be saved

rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

thks

Thanks for the reply.
Just to clarify, I didn't say 'it is finished,' I referred to Christ's 'finished sacrifice'—meaning His work on the cross was a complete, successful payment for sin, not a partial one that leaves us to finish the job.
As to how I know that endurance and works are the effects of salvation rather than cause? I know that from John 15:5, the very verse we are discussing (and from other verses too). John 15:5 tells us that "I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing." A branch does not produce fruit to attach itself to the vine; it produces fruit because it is already attached to the vine: the fruit is the effect that results from it being attached to the vine.
Regarding your verses on enduring to the end (Matt 10:22, Mk 13:13), you are correct that true believers will endure to the end. But the question is: who is the source of, and guarantor of, that endurance? Is it by human will, or by God's power? 1 Peter 1:4-5 provides the answer. It informs us that our inheritance is already reserved in heaven for us, and we endure not by our own strength, but only by God’s power unto the end.

[1Pe 1:4-5 KJV]
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

 

[Cameron143]

Calvinists are so brainwashed.

Cameron....

You juggle vanity.
And, some find it entertaining.

Meaningless.

I get it. You can't convince others through reasoned argument so you revert to personal attack and character assassination. All the while, convinced you are led of the Spirit.

I asked you earlier why you study the word of God. Care to proffer an answer?

 

[HeIsHere]

I simply include man in my focus.

You know? Man?
The one whom God saves?

Or, should we ignore man completely?

God has the sovereign right to set the one condition He requires and which is necessary to receive the gift of salvation.

Reformed/Calvinists deny God's sovereignty.

 

[Genez]

I get it. You can't convince others through reasoned argument so you revert to personal attack and character assassination. All the while, convinced you are led of the Spirit.

I asked you earlier why you study the word of God. Care to proffer an answer?

There are those who do agree with me.

I just say things about you that they will also agree with me about you.

...............

 

[Cameron143]

There are those who do agree with me.

I just say things about you that they will also agree with me about you.

...............

No, you impugn my character and reveal how poor your powers of discernment are.

 

[Genez]

No, you impugn my character and reveal how poor your powers of discernment are.

You mean you are being a deliberate deception?

And, are not the closed-minded, stubborn, antagonist you are pretending to be???

 

[Cameron143]

You mean you are being a deliberate deception?

And, are not the closed-minded, stubborn, antagonist you are pretending to be???

Just more of the same. I'm surprised you didn't ask me if I've stopped beating my wife.

I asked you a question: why do you study the word of God?

 

[Genez]

Just more of the same. I'm surprised you didn't ask me if I've stopped beating my wife.

I asked you a question: why do you study the word of God?

I know I have been called to do so.
It was made known to me...
Because, I recognize that God has given me the gift to do so.

I also study to keep myself free from teachings of ignorance that used to discourage me in wanting to become a Christian.

 

[Cameron143]

I know I have been called to do so.
It was made known to me...
Because, I recognize that God has given me the gift to do so.

I also study to keep myself free from teachings of ignorance that used to discourage me in wanting to become a Christian.

Everyone has been called to study scripture. One should study to know God. All the rest is simply added in the first.

 

[Genez]

Everyone has been called to study scripture. One should study to know God. All the rest is simply added in the first.

By the grace of God I know I am saved.
You, likewise.

Why do you act envious of me?
If you are not?
Stop behaving like someone who is.
For you keep trying to bring us down who do not see it your way.

You and I both did not deserve to be going to Heaven before we got saved.


Can you discuss anything else in Scripture?

 

[Cameron143]

By the grace of God I know I am saved.
You, likewise.

Why do you act envious of me?
If you are not?
Stop behaving like someone who is.
For you keep trying to bring us down who do not see it your way.

You and I both did not deserve to be going to Heaven before we got saved.


Can you discuss anything else in Scripture?

No one is jealous of you...wow.

You have the poorest discernment of anyone I have ever discussed scripture with.

And you haven't discussed scripture for some time. You have simply been insulting people and ascribing false motives to others. All most assuredly done through the guidance of the Spirit.

 

[Genez]

No one is jealous of you...wow.

You have the poorest discernment of anyone I have ever discussed scripture with.

And you haven't discussed scripture for some time. You have simply been insulting people and ascribing false motives to others. All most assuredly done through the guidance of the Spirit.

Discernment?

Why do you keep skipping over words?

I said....

​

Why do you act envious of me?​

If you are not?​

Stop behaving like someone who is.​

For you keep trying to bring us down, who do not see it your way.​

Well?
Even if you are not?
You are producing thinking like what someone who is jealous will.

For, what you say about what some here understand, that you don't?
Is how a jealous person thinks...
How someone REASONS when he can't stand to see another content and happy with what he himself does not have.

Remember...!

Pilate knew that those who handed Jesus over to him to be crucified? Were envious.
But, they would never allow themselves to think so!
Would they?

So when they had gathered, Pilate said to them, “Whom do you want me ​

to release for you: Barabbas, or Jesus who is called Christ?”​

For he knew it was out of envy that they had handed Jesus over to him. Matthew 27:17-18​

The religious ones, if they were told?
Would have scoffed at the idea...

Kind of like you.
Some of us here can see it plainly.

 

[amazingrace]

In context, that cannot be the case, because just a few verses earlier, John had written:

(Joh 1:10 -11 NKJV) He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.
(Joh 1:11) He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him.

As John Gill commented on John 1:16:

"but his fulness of grace and truth is dispensatory, and is in him, on purpose to be communicated unto others: and "of it", the evangelist says, "have all we received"; not all mankind, though they all receive natural light and life from him; nor merely all the prophets of the Old Testament, though they had their gifts and grace from him, who then was, as now, the head of the church; nor only all the apostles of Christ, though these may be principally intended; but all believers, who, though they have not all the same measure of grace, nor the same gifts, yet all have received something: nor is there any reason for discouragement, envy, or reproach."

Jesus did not come to make salvation ("grace and union" to use your phrase) possible, but to save. The angel said to Joseph:

(Mat 1:21 NKJV) And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name JESUS, for He will save His people from their sins."

(not: "He will make His people's salvation a possibility.")

Similarly, Paul wrote to Timothy:

(1Ti 1:15 NKJV) This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.

(not: "Christ Jesus came into the world to to make the salvation of sinners a possibility.")




I wonder what meaning you use for "redemption." The entry for "Redemption" in McClintock and Strong's Biblical Cyclopedia begins:

"Redemption, in theology, denotes our recovery from sin and death by the obedience and sacrifice of Christ, who on this account is called the "Redeemer" (Isa 59:20; Job 19:25). "Being justified freely by his grace, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Ro 3:24). "' Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us" (Ga 3:13). "In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace" (Eph 1:7). "Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; but with.the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot" (1Pe 1:18-19). "And ye are not your own, for ye are bought with a price" (1Co 6:19-20)."

When we see the word "redemption" in the New Testament, it always refers to Christians, people who have been saved. For example, Paul wrote to the Christians at Corinth:

(1Co 1:30 NKJV) But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption—

It is never (as far as I know) used generally of all mankind.

call it what ever you like, Christ obtained the grace of God by His life, death, and resurrection

thks

 

[amazingrace]

I agree that grace is abundant. My point was that that means a large amount of grace, not a plurality of graces.

1 Peter 4:10
As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.

manifold means many

and there are different kinds of grace

thks