Saved by faith alone?
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Jesus came of proclaim the gospel of Good News.
Jesus did not come to save the elect. According to election the chosen are and have always been saved.
The Good News Jesus proclaimed was for those already saved and not the non-chosen.
That's if you believe in election.
That's your misunderstanding of election. While individuals are chosen before creation, they are saved in space and time. While the gospel goes forth to most people, it is only effectual for those who believe.
Hey Cameron,
I think you and genez are highlighting one of the least talked about aspects of Gods word and truth, and thats all of Gods deep truths are paradoxical.
Just like Jesus was 100% man and 100% God all the time, at all times. The trinity is one entity and 3 separate entities all the time, at all times.
In regards to salvation, God or grace alone will not complete the salvation process, faith or a correct response to the call of the Father will not complete the salvation process either. Nor is it a partnership between God and us for salvation.
So what is the answer, it's a paradox, just like the trinity and Jesus being God and man. And you mentioned Gods word, without correctly discerning the paradoxes throughout His word, we can never get a right understanding of it.
When debates like you guys are having pop up, you are each digging in on one side of the paradoxical truths. One on one pole and the other on the other pole. Both are correct, and both are wrong at the same time. Paradoxes just don't fit into our framework of understanding.
What say you?
Yes as well, remember the Calvinist think regeneration comes first and makes belief possible (which is only for those God pre-selected for salvation),
they will often not state this clearly because of course it is not supported by scripture.
I deeply appreciate the tenor of your words and the spirit in which they are given. And I believe there are both paradoxes and mysteries that our finite minds cannot fully grasp. Such matters are accepted by faith. On the topic of soteriology, I find no such paradox. I find differences in definitions, understanding, and levels of maturity, but I don't find paradoxes. For instance, you say there is more to salvation than simply belief. I can both agree with that statement and disagree with it depending upon what your definition of salvation is.
The only thing necessary for salvation is that sin is atoned for. Once that occurs, whoever sins are paid for has been redeemed. Everything else is simply the proclamation of what God has done in Christ for those whose sins are paid for. The gospel being proclaimed is the process by which God makes this reality known. Salvation in its most simplistic form is just God letting people know what He has done for them.
I have never heard of election meaning "only effectual for those who believe".
You are either of the chosen or of the non-chosen.
There is no chosen and also believed.
There is only believed because they were chosen.
Obviously anyone chosen will believe. Those not chosen will not.
The cause of belief is the grace of God. This grace or power is exercised through faith which comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. And this is the power of God in the gospel that Paul spoke of. Notice, that power is only exercised to those who believe...Romans 1:16.
I don't believe I am "saved by faith alone". I believe I am saved by grace, through faith. I also believe that faith is a verb, not a noun.
Here is how it was explained to me. Suppose a man claimed (believed) that a meteor was going to land on the city tomorrow. Watch what he does tomorrow. If he doesn't leave town, then what good did it do for him to claim it?Bare profession of faith. (James 2:14)
Obedience from a regenerate heart does not make you a legalist, yet seeking salvation by works is not obedience. Legalism is the belief that one can earn or merit salvation through law keeping or good works, rather than by grace through faith.
Those who are born of God are not longing for the sins of this world. 1 John 3:9 - No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.
In John 8:11, Jesus did not condemn the woman caught in adultery yet told her to go and sin no more/leave her life of sin, namely, she had been practicing adultery.
I don't cherry pick and here is the balanced view of faith and works. Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; yet genuine faith is (evidenced) by works. (James 2:14-26)
*Jesus Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.* ( Romans 3:24-28; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9)
It is through faith "in Jesus Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ ( Romans 4:5-6; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-26) *Perfect Harmony*
I agree with you to a certain degree. Nonetheless, the faith we believe has content. We believe that Jesus Christ is both Lord and Savior and we believe that we are sinners in need of Grace.
We have all heard the kinds of children's stories that emphasize belief at the expense of content, and such stories are empty, flat, and hollow -- without substance.
Our faith is not flat or hollow because what we believe is profound, significant and true.
There's no such thing as "believing" in what Jesus said and did that will result in receiving the Holy spirit. The words believe, believer, and believing are mistranslations of the Greek word pisteuo.
Pisteuo being the active form of faith, is "a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. " i bear witness to that definition in the Vines Greek dictionary, and doing that every day, sometimes all day for 38 years.
Why do you affirm that "believe" is a mistranslation? In your view, what is the difference, if any, between belief and faith?
In modern times, since the Enlightenment period, there is a difference. But I am unaware of any difference in the first century. But I am interested to learn more about it.
sadly many people in this chatroom and this world think they can shout out their works to God.. It will be why they think they are saved
I like what you said here, and it is very important in my opinion. I realize that you weren't actually making a grammatical point. Paul says that we are saved by grace through faith to stress the relational aspect of salvation. Elsewhere, Paul exhorts his readers to work out their salvation through fear and trembling. Philippians 2:11-13 In other words, faith follows grace. Faith works through profound respect for God.
May i ask who these people are that you say think their works actually save them?
I don't know a single person brave enough to suggest that, not even in cc.