SAVED BY WORKS

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If we obey Christ's commandments and repent from our sins, He sends us the Holy Spirit to change us and makes it joyful and easy.
If we only say a sinner's prayer to escape destruction, yet do not have the desire to become obedient, then we will probably not be born again.
And we remain slaves to sin. I am just basing this off what Christ says here and my own experience:

John 14
15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth,
 
Jason0047 said:
Jesus said you cannot serve two masters. For you will hate the one and love the other. Jesus also said that a good tree cannot bring forth bad fruit (And vise versa). Jesus said we will know false prophets by their fruit. Peter even identifies the false prophets as having eyes full of adultery who cannot cease from sin (2 Peter 2:1, 14). Paul essentially says if any man teaches contrary to the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine of Godliness is proud and knows nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4). Jude 1:4 says there are those who have turned the grace of our God into a doctrine of immorality or lasciviousness.
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Yes you guys seem to be bound in a cycle of sin and guilt and Im trying to help you see why.
 
WheresEnoch said:
If we obey Christ's commandments and repent from our sins, He sends us the Holy Spirit to change us and makes it joyful and easy.
If we only say a sinner's prayer to escape destruction, yet do not have the desire to become obedient, then we will probably not be born again.
And we remain slaves to sin. I am just basing this off what Christ says here and my own experience:

John 14
15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth,
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Do you keep His Commandments?

Again telling others to obey is not evidence of obedience ...
 
Mitspa said:
Again Jason...I don't care about what standard you cherry pick out of scripture to preach to me...I know I live godly, what I don't know is if you live godly and just because your find scripture about obedience, don't mean your really in obedience ....In fact what I have seen is that folks that do what your doing are often bound in sin.
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As for the bolded part: Well, this is totally untrue. There are testimonies about those who came out of OSAS thinking they could sin and still be saved or that sin was not that big of deal in their lives (So they didn't worry about taking care if it with the Lord the right way). In fact, there have even been people who have committed suicide thinking they were saved because of OSAS. So I am sorry to inform you, my friend. OSAS is a bad tree with corrupt fruit. Then there is the poster child of OSAS who killed a bunch of people, too. Again, more bad fruit from the OSAS camp.

As for you saying you live Godly: Okay, then why have you implied the exact opposite with what you have said? You make it sound like we shouldn't strive to live righteously. When I confronted you about it, you backed off. Now you are claiming that you live righteously? In what way? Do you always repent and confess of your sins? How often do you commit sins that leead unto death? (Such as hate, lust, lying, swearing, etc.).
 
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Jason0047 said:
Totally untrue. There are testimonies about those who came out of OSAS thinking they could sin and still be saved or that sin was not that big of deal in their lives (So they didn't worry about taking care if it with the Lord the right way). In fact, there have even been people who have committed suicide thinking they were saved because of OSAS. So I am sorry to inform you, my friend. OSAS is a bad tree with corrupt fruit. Then there is the poster child of OSAS who killed a bunch of people, too. Again, more bad fruit from the OSAS camp.
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Well Im not talking about anyone else...Im not a Osas...because its clear that legalist (those under the law of Moses) have fallen from grace and are cutoff from Christ.

The most ungodly Christians I have ever met where legalist...who preached standards to others they did not keep.
 
Mitspa said:
Yes you guys seem to be bound in a cycle of sin and guilt and Im trying to help you see why.
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As Moviephone would say, .... "Why don't you just tell me the name of the movie you want to see?"

In other words, just spill it. Lay it all out for us.

So are you saying that according to your way, you do not commit sin every once and a while like lusting, lying, hating, swearing, etc.?

Are you saying you do not need to confess of that sin when you do sin on occasion? That there is no guilt for you when you do sin? How does that work according to the Bible?
 
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Jason0047 said:
As Moviephone would say, .... "Why don't you just tell me the name of the movie you want to see?"

In other words, just spill it. Lay it all out for us.

So are you saying that according to your way, you do not abide in sin every once and a while like lusting, lying, hating, swearing, etc.?
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No I live a godly life, that's why I know you guys who go around on the forum lecturing others about obedience have no real understanding of true godliness and the folks you guys lecture are in all likelihood living much more in the Will of God than you guys are.

So that's why I keep making the point that getting on a forum and finding a few scriptures about obedience don't mean anything.
 
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Mitspa said:
Well Im not talking about anyone else...Im not a Osas...because its clear that legalist (those under the law of Moses) have fallen from grace and are cutoff from Christ.

The most ungodly Christians I have ever met where legalist...who preached standards to others they did not keep.
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I am not a Legalist or a Works Salvationist. I do not believe works saves you. I believe works is merely the after effect. Salvation is the Cause and Works is the Effect. I believe God does the good work in the believer and that it is not the believer ultimately doing the work. All glory, honor, and power goes to Jesus Christ for salvation. I can take no credit. And I do not need to go out tomorrow and do something to be saved. Loving God and loving others is a natural result having been saved because they have been transformed spiritually by God (Whereby then Christ or God lives within them).
 
Jason0047 said:
I am not a Legalist or a Works Salvationist. I do not believe works saves you. I believe works is merely the after effect. Salvation is the Cause and Works is the Effect. I believe God does the good work in the believer and that it is not the believer ultimately doing the work. All glory, honor, and power goes to Jesus Christ for salvation. I can take no credit. And I do not need to go out tomorrow and do something to be saved. Loving God and loving others is a natural result having been saved because they have been transformed spiritually by God (Whereby then Christ or God lives within them).
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So you believe that your good works come from knowing your saved and knowing that your justified by faith in Christ? Ok then why not edify others in that which you say causes you to produce good works? Why demand the fruit from a tree before you sow seed or water the plant? If you guys really understand of the fruits of Spirit work, you would know that's how you strengthen good works in others.
 
Mitspa said:
No I live a godly life, that's why I know you guys who go around on the forum lecturing others about obedience have no real understanding of true godliness and the folks you guys lecture are in all likelihood living much more in the Will of God than you guys are.

So that's why I keep making the point that getting on a forum and finding a scriptures about obedience don't mean anything.
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You are avoiding the detailed questions I asked. Saying you live Godly doesn't not mean anything to me unless you tell me how you define in how you live Godly or in how a believer can live Godly according to your beliefs.

Again, I ask you. Can a believer abide in unrepentant sin on occasion, then die in that sin (without confessing it) and be saved? Are you saying that you or a believer under your belief system rarely if never sins on occasion such as lying, hating, lusting, swearing, etc.? Are you saying that you believe future sin is forgiven and thereby you have no sin when you do sin? That there is no guilt for you when you do sin?
 
Jason0047 said:
You are avoiding the detailed questions I asked. Saying you live Godly doesn't not mean anything to me unless you tell me how you define in how you live Godly or in how a believer can live Godly according to your beliefs.

Again, I ask you. Can a believer abide in unrepentant sin on occasion, then die in that sin (without confessing it) and be saved? Are you saying that you or a believer under your belief system rarely if never sins on occasion such as lying, hating, lusting, swearing, etc.? Are you saying that you believe future sin is forgiven and thereby you have no sin when you do sin? That there is no guilt for you when you do sin?
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I don't care about your detailed question...I know that I am a godly man and the manner of life I live...what I don't know is what you are and what makes you think your in a position to lecture me in obedience? Because you talk about obedience, don't mean nothing to me, I know true obedience and I know that if you knew it you would not behave as you do.
 
Mitspa said:
So you believe that your good works come from knowing your saved and knowing that your justified by faith in Christ? Ok then why not edify others in that which you say causes you to produce good works? Why demand the fruit from a tree before you sow seed or water the plant? If you guys really understand of the fruits of Spirit work, you would know that's how you strengthen good works in others.
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Paul said he labored more than his brehtren but it was not his own doing but the grace of God that was within him. I talk plenty about how it is the Lord that does the good work within a person and it is not us. However, avoiding in doing evil or sin is not a work, though. That's repentance. That's the basics. Confessing your sin and forsaking it is repenting. This is the foundation of how you stay right with the Lord. There is no such thing as future sin is forgiven you. That leads people to think they can sin and still be saved if you do not show them the disclaimer that God's people are to live holy.
 
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Mitspa said:
I don't care about your detailed question...I know that I am a godly man and the manner of life I live...what I don't know is what you are and what makes you think your in a position to lecture me in obedience? Because you talk about obedience, don't mean nothing to me, I know true obedience and I know that if you knew it you would not behave as you do.
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Your avoidance of my questions lowers your credibility. I would have no problem answering your questions in what I believe. To me it suggests that you are afraid that your doctrine or belief will not hold up to what the Word of God actually says. Until you answer the questions. That is what I am going to think. Your not caring what I think and allowing me to continue in falsehood is not brotherly love (Which is what Christianity is all about). So again. Answer the questions if you dare, my friend.
 
A true man of God knows that the fruit of the Spirit is just that a fruit...He knows you don't demand a fruit, you care for the tree and you edify other believers in faith and love...and from that they will bear fruit to God and it would have none of this self-righteousness dung on the fruit.
 
Obeying God does not save us, but He won't save us unless we obey Him.
 
Mitspa said:
A true man of God knows that the fruit of the Spirit is just that a fruit...He knows you don't demand a fruit, you care for the tree and you edify other believers in faith and love...and from that they will bear fruit to God and it would have none of this self-righteousness dung on the fruit.
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Nice try, my friend; But that's not exactly the answers I was looking for.
 
Jason0047 said:
Your avoidance of my questions lowers your credibility. I would have no problem answering your questions in what I believe. To me it suggests that you are afraid that your doctrine or belief will not hold up to what the Word of God actually says. Until you answer the questions. That is what I am going to think. Your not caring what I think and allowing me to continue in falsehood is not brotherly love (Which is what Christianity is all about). So again. Answer the questions if you dare, my friend.
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Your not the judge Jason...when will understand that...that is my point with you and the others...You guys are not in a position to judge others because you quote scriptures about obedience .

I know what I am...I know true obedience to God and I know hypocrisy when I see it.
 
Mitspa said:
Your not the judge Jason...when will understand that...that is my point with you and the others...You guys are not in a position to judge others because you quote scriptures about obedience .

I know what I am...I know true obedience to God and I know hypocrisy when I see it.
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Look. I don't care about any mud in your personal life. I am not here to dig up dirt on you. You can answer the questions I had given from a third party perspective. You can say....

"A True believer can do this and this.... but he can't do this...etc. etc." ​

I just want to know what you believe. Avoiding my questions makes me think you are not on the level and or being true with me.
 
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Jason0047 said:
There is no such thing as future sin is forgiven you. That leads people to think they can sin and still be saved if you do not show them the disclaimer that God's people are to live holy.
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Jason,
I apologize for asking this, but can you clarify on this statement because I don't quite understand? Please.
 
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