Scripture only discussion

[Rock022]

We all know Jesus did not come to abolish the law, this means that when we study the Old Testament trough the light of Christ the scriptures have better understanding.

Many people equate the word pharisees with hypocrites. Many compare the traditions and teachings of the pharisees to only the few that did not follow the law, by doing this many take the position of God by making themselves judge and rulers. Not all Jews where opposed to Jesus, to the contrary, many believed Jesus. But those who’s heart was hardened made everything possible for Jesus to be crucified. If this would not have happened Jesus would not have died for our sins.

Jesus was a Rabbi a teacher, He was a Jew and he observed every jewish tradition until His ministry began. Even after His ministry began He did most of the jewish traditions and on some of the ones he broke, He was clear to say that He was here and there was no need at the moment to do so, and those traditions would continue after He was gone. [the fasting story]

Many places in the bible we can find that not everything was written.
Lk 10:16
16*He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me
Jn 16:12
12*I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now
Jn 21:25
25*And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.
Heb 13:22
22*And I beseech you, brethren, suffer the word of exhortation: for I have written a letter unto you in few words.
2 Jn 1:12-13
12*Having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you, and speak face to face, that our joy may be full.
3 Jn 1:13
13*I had many things to write, but I will not with ink and pen write unto thee:
We can however find that God told the priest he will always be with them
Mal 2:7
7*For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the Lord of hosts.
Is 59:21
21*As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the Lord; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the Lord, from henceforth and for ever.
Did he break His word?

The scriptures where inspired, but it never mentions which scriptures. The scriptures where never intended for individual interpretation
2 Pt 1:20
20*Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
We are to be taught scriptures
Acts 8:30-31
30*And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
31*And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him

 

[Bookreader]

I was with you up to the last assumption - that Philip had to explain things because all doctrine has to be taught.
The reason is clear if we read it. We are talking about an Ethiopian. Not a Jew. He does not know the Jewish faith as well as Philip does. Obviously.
And as the New Testament was not yet provided, all teaching was based upon the Jewish writings and upon testament to the life of Christ Jesus.
The Ethiopian had learned much but needed help getting all the facts.

The comforter is the New Testament as inspired by the spirit of God - that is how it seems clear to me.

And the word used for "guide" (hodegeo) is just that - it is NOT instruction, it is "to lead the way" - teaching as we have in most churches nowadays was not the way of the early church. That is why Paul spent months discussing with folks in parts of Asia Minor (Turkey). They discussed things. He didn't say "this is what you must believe else you'll burn forever" (a common method in some of our churches nowadays unfortunately). God's Word, in his heart, convinced them - not in an instant, but over weeks of discussion.

We do need to remember that, at that time there were few (if any) atheists in the world. All people believed in gods. The work of the apostles was to explain how and why the God of Israel was THE only true God and that Jesus was His Son, come to guide humanity to salvation through his sacrifice.

The phrase "How can I, except some man should guide me?" is particularly fitting because Philip was the man to guide the Ethiopian in life, just as Christ has done for us all.

 

[Rock022]

The Eucharist was the center of the mass and it is still the center of the mass today. Many denominations that claim the truth do not even believe in this. It all began with the Last Supper.

The story of the man needing help to understand scripture, today holds the same weight today as it did then. The Rabbis had much unwritten knowledge that they passed from teacher to teacher, once Jesus came the Jewish teachings opened for all not just the Jews. The problem is that people do not trust Jesus when He said that He will always be with His church, why then we have more than 20,000 religious denominations claiming the truth. I had a conversations here were people claimed there are some Non-negotiables, where does the bible talk about non-negotiables? I have never heard that. But it does talks about we all being one. We are to be servants of Jesus, servants do not go against the teachings. The teachings change us, we do not change the teachings. The church has had the same beliefs since early times, about 400 years ago some people did not like it so they change the teachings ever so slightly, but someone else did not like something else from what the first ones changed. Now there was a little more division, but some people who attended those churches did not like some thing else and guess what, now we have an explosion of churches that claim all have the truth. People get tired to be lied to so they do not listen to any one and began their non denominational bible only church. Why because we all know that this is really about life or death.

Now people have come so far from the truth with so many denominations that when the truth is spoken they do not believe, their minds are made up that all the old teachings are false. If those Pharisees would not had the hardness of heart they did, we would not have had the gift of life we have today.

 

[Rock022]

By the way Thank you for your answer!

 

[Bookreader]

I think part of the problem is that, although it's possible to say the church had beliefs "since early times" this is not actually the full story.
How early?

Many of the things the church of Rome believes today it did not believe 1600 years ago.
Many of the things the church of Rome believed in 500AD were not the beliefs of the apostles in 50AD.
Many of the traditions of the church (and all 'churches' since) come from man.
The idea of the rosary, the eternal virginity of Mary, purgatory and indulgencies would not have been ideas understood by John when he wrote his Gospel at the end of the first century. These, and even more significant doctrines, were added over time - one of the more recent being the rapture, for example.
The reason this did not change for almost 1000 years is because the church of Rome murdered anyone that disagreed.

As soon as the church rose from persecution (shortly before Constantine) it became run by people who were very often only to happy to have grand houses and the power to have others do or even believe as instructed. This is just church history - nothing new. But we must surely realise when doctrine was added by such men it was not from God.
Various times of reformation have occurred and this is why believers in the Bible are so diverse - because teaching in the Bible has always been promoted more (and, in some cases, to the exclusion of) than a person reading the whole Bible, start to finish and letting God's words show them his message of hope.

And finally I come to my point - sorry for all that tedious preamble.

Unfortunately there are so very many people who do not read the Bible until after they have been told what others say it says. And many never bother to read it all, ever!
And there are huge numbers of people that think that most of the Bible is for teaching in seminaries only, so that "preachers can illustrate the interesting bits they need to know about"
I think that is WHY God gave us scripture - so we can discuss it without being told we must adhere to another man's belief of what it says.

You quoted 2 Peter 1:20

Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

The fact that a minister in a church me got his understanding from his teacher, and so on back 500 years or 1000 years or even back to the time of the church fathers is unimportant. It would still be the interpretation of a man.
To me this verse makes it clear that there is one meaning of the scripture but it does not say I have therefore to believe some minister or priest (or anyone else) who says they know what I should believe it to mean.
We should pray God helps us understand his scripture, not hope that some man is telling us a 1500 year old bunch of nonsense based upon the beliefs of someone who came into the church and did not let go of pagan beliefs philosophies.
The age of an idea does not make it correct unless it came directly from Jesus or an Apostle - i.e. the written word of God.


Man is fallen - why should we listen to man more than the inspired word of God?

And I know baptism washes away sin (Paul says were are no longer sinners but have 'put on the new man') but how many people believe different doctrines the minute after they were baptised?