SECOND CHANCE 1000 YR

[BradC]

Zone, why are you intentionally avoiding verse 14 & 15 of Jude 1? What is the context of these verses and where do they fit in the scheme of God's plan? Are you going to tell us that the 'saints' referred to in verse 14 are 'holy ones' that could only refer to holy angels and not glorified saints? Is there not a case that it is referring to saints and angels which come as an innumerable number with the Lord to execute judgment or is the word 'saints' just a bad translation?

 

[john832]

only where he is bound in the pit,,,lol after that he is cast into the lake of fire rev.20;10,,,,,but i don't think he plays any role other than he is depicted as being bound in lev.16 or matt. 12,,,,

Lev 16:21 And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:

The word goat is used twice in this verse and in both cases it is translated from the Hebrew...

H8163
שׂער שׂעיר
śâ‛ı̂yr śâ‛ir
saw-eer', saw-eer'
From H8175; shaggy; as noun, a he goat; by analogy a faun: - devil, goat, hairy, kid, rough, satyr.

azazel...

: an evil spirit of the wilderness to which a scapegoat was sent by the ancient Hebrews in a ritual of atonement - Merriam Wbster dictionary


Etymology, origin and significance are still matters of conjecture. The A.V. [K.J.V.] designation scapegoat (i.e. the goat that is allowed to escape, which goes back to caper emissarius of the Vulgate) obscures the fact that the word Azazel is a proper name in the original, and in particular the name of a powerful spirit or demon.—A. R. S. Kennedy, Hastings Dictionary of the Bible (one volume), p. 77.


The Jewish authority Dr. M. M. Kalisch.—There can be no doubt whatever that Azazel is a personal, a superhuman, and an evil being—in fact a wicked demon. . . . It was approved of by early Christian writers who identified Azazel with Satan (Origen, C. Cels. VI. 43, p. 305 ed. Spencer; Iren. Adv. Haer. 1. 12; Epiphan. Haeres XXXIV. 11), and by many later and modern scholars.— A Historical and Critical Commentary on the Old Testament, vol. 2, pp. 328, 329.

Smith and Peloubet's "A Dictionary of the Bible."—The best modern scholars agree that it designates the personal being to whom the goat was sent, probably Satan.—Page 65.

Samuel M. Zwemer (Presbyterian).—The devil (Sheitan, or Iblis) has a proper name—Azazel. He was expelled from Eden.—Islam, a Challenge to Faith, p. 89.

E. W. Hengstenberg (Lutheran).—The manner in which the phrase "for Azazel" is contrasted with "for Jehovah," necessarily requires that Azazel should designate a personal existence and if so, only Satan can be intended. If by Azazel, Satan is not meant, there is no reason for the lots that were cast. We can then see no reason why the decision was referred to God, why the high priest did not simply assign one goat for a sin offering, and the other for sending away into the desert. Egypt and the Books of Moses, pp. 170, 171.

J. B. Rotherham (Disciples of Christ?).—"And one lot for Azazel" (Lev. xvi. 8).—It seems impossible to dissent from the opinion that "Azazel," instead of being a name for the (e)scape goat, is the name or title of an evil Being, opposed to Yahweh, to whom the live goat on the great Day of Propitiation was sent. Admitting so much, it still remains to inquire into the meaning


Apparently you and I are not alone in thinking that the Azazel goat represented Satan.

 

[RuthHannah]

Zone, why are you intentionally avoiding verse 14 & 15 of Jude 1? What is the context of these verses and where do they fit in the scheme of God's plan? Are you going to tell us that the 'saints' referred to in verse 14 are 'holy ones' that could only refer to holy angels and not glorified saints? Is there not a case that it is referring to saints and angels which come as an innumerable number with the Lord to execute judgment or is the word 'saints' just a bad translation?

These are angels Not the people

 

[RuthHannah]

Lev 16:21 And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:

The word goat is used twice in this verse and in both cases it is translated from the Hebrew...

H8163
שׂער שׂעיר
śâ‛ı̂yr śâ‛ir
saw-eer', saw-eer'
From H8175; shaggy; as noun, a he goat; by analogy a faun: - devil, goat, hairy, kid, rough, satyr.

azazel...

: an evil spirit of the wilderness to which a scapegoat was sent by the ancient Hebrews in a ritual of atonement - Merriam Wbster dictionary


Etymology, origin and significance are still matters of conjecture. The A.V. [K.J.V.] designation scapegoat (i.e. the goat that is allowed to escape, which goes back to caper emissarius of the Vulgate) obscures the fact that the word Azazel is a proper name in the original, and in particular the name of a powerful spirit or demon.—A. R. S. Kennedy, Hastings Dictionary of the Bible (one volume), p. 77.


The Jewish authority Dr. M. M. Kalisch.—There can be no doubt whatever that Azazel is a personal, a superhuman, and an evil being—in fact a wicked demon. . . . It was approved of by early Christian writers who identified Azazel with Satan (Origen, C. Cels. VI. 43, p. 305 ed. Spencer; Iren. Adv. Haer. 1. 12; Epiphan. Haeres XXXIV. 11), and by many later and modern scholars.— A Historical and Critical Commentary on the Old Testament, vol. 2, pp. 328, 329.

Smith and Peloubet's "A Dictionary of the Bible."—The best modern scholars agree that it designates the personal being to whom the goat was sent, probably Satan.—Page 65.

Samuel M. Zwemer (Presbyterian).—The devil (Sheitan, or Iblis) has a proper name—Azazel. He was expelled from Eden.—Islam, a Challenge to Faith, p. 89.

E. W. Hengstenberg (Lutheran).—The manner in which the phrase "for Azazel" is contrasted with "for Jehovah," necessarily requires that Azazel should designate a personal existence and if so, only Satan can be intended. If by Azazel, Satan is not meant, there is no reason for the lots that were cast. We can then see no reason why the decision was referred to God, why the high priest did not simply assign one goat for a sin offering, and the other for sending away into the desert. Egypt and the Books of Moses, pp. 170, 171.

J. B. Rotherham (Disciples of Christ?).—"And one lot for Azazel" (Lev. xvi. 8).—It seems impossible to dissent from the opinion that "Azazel," instead of being a name for the (e)scape goat, is the name or title of an evil Being, opposed to Yahweh, to whom the live goat on the great Day of Propitiation was sent. Admitting so much, it still remains to inquire into the meaning


Apparently you and I are not alone in thinking that the Azazel goat represented Satan.

please explain how satan can atone for sins ?


Who was our sins laid on ?

 

[john832]

please explain how satan can atone for sins ?


Who was our sins laid on ?

Please show me where I or Lev 16 says anything about Satan atoning for sin. What I said is that Satan is the author of sin...

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

The ultimate blame for sin is placed squarely on his head where it belongs. The Goat that was sacrificed is the shadow of Jesus Christ, and His DEATH atones for our sins.

Now explain to me how the goat that was led into the wilderness and released ALIVE is the one who died for our sins.

(Oops, this must be read in conjunction with the earlier post I made where I waded through Lev 16 showing one goat pictured Christ and one pictured the Devil.)

 

[RuthHannah]

Please show me where I or Lev 16 says anything about Satan atoning for sin. What I said is that Satan is the author of sin...

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

The ultimate blame for sin is placed squarely on his head where it belongs. The Goat that was sacrificed is the shadow of Jesus Christ, and His DEATH atones for our sins.

Now explain to me how the goat that was led into the wilderness and released ALIVE is the one who died for our sins.

(Oops, this must be read in conjunction with the earlier post I made where I waded through Lev 16 showing one goat pictured Christ and one pictured the Devil.)

this is SDA rubbish

the devil will not be on a desolate earth roaming

Do all the sacrifices point to Jesus ?

Was the scape goat a sacrifice ?

Are all sacrifices for sins dead ones ?

 

[john832]

this is SDA rubbish

the devil will not be on a desolate earth roaming

No, he is incarcerated, pictured by the scapegoat.

Do all the sacrifices point to Jesus ?

Yes and no, some of the sacrifices were penalties for violating certain statutes and judgements. One was penalized for certain infractions just as there are fines today for minor infractions.

Does a fine for a parking violation point to Christ's sacrifice? Is a violation of parking regulations worthy of the death penalty?

Was the scape goat a sacrifice ?

Well was he? Was He sacrificed? Was his blood shed?

Lev 16:8 And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot for the LORD, and the other lot for the scapegoat.

Read this verse carefully and then count how many were for the Eternal. Two or ONE?

Lev 16:10 But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the LORD, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness.

Don't you have a little bit of problem here with the scapegoat being presented ALIVE before the Eternal? Christ DIED for our sins, He was not presented alive.

Are all sacrifices for sins dead ones ?

So, Christ really did not have to die for our sins? He asked that very same question...

Mat 26:38 Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.
Mat 26:39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
Mat 26:40 And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour?
Mat 26:41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.
Mat 26:42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.

And the Father answered how? "Yeah, be alright, we'll just let you skate on outta here without giving your life." Christ was brutally beaten (the beating probably would have killed Him) and then hung on a stake until He DIED. He didn't just wander off into the wilderness.

By the way, I am not an SDA and have many differences with them but what you are spouting is protestant hogwash not founded on scripture.

 

[RuthHannah]

Please show me where I or Lev 16 says anything about Satan atoning for sin. What I said is that Satan is the author of sin...

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

The ultimate blame for sin is placed squarely on his head where it belongs. The Goat that was sacrificed is the shadow of Jesus Christ, and His DEATH atones for our sins.

Now explain to me how the goat that was led into the wilderness and released ALIVE is the one who died for our sins.

(Oops, this must be read in conjunction with the earlier post I made where I waded through Lev 16 showing one goat pictured Christ and one pictured the Devil.)

The Day of Atonement
Every day animals were sacrificed for the sins of Israel. But once a year on the Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur) a special service was held. It was to be on the 10th day of Tishri, coming on different days of our calendar. It came in the month of September to early October. The Day of Atonement was the only day of the year that the priest entered the holy of holies to make sin offerings for himself, his family, and the "assembly of Israel." After making these offerings, the nation’s sins were symbolically laid on the scapegoat and it was led out into the wilderness and released.
Before the sacrifice of the two goats, the High Priest was required to make a sin offering for himself.

 

[RuthHannah]

Please show me where I or Lev 16 says anything about Satan atoning for sin. What I said is that Satan is the author of sin...

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

The ultimate blame for sin is placed squarely on his head where it belongs. The Goat that was sacrificed is the shadow of Jesus Christ, and His DEATH atones for our sins.

Now explain to me how the goat that was led into the wilderness and released ALIVE is the one who died for our sins.

(Oops, this must be read in conjunction with the earlier post I made where I waded through Lev 16 showing one goat pictured Christ and one pictured the Devil.)

The scapegoat is for atonement

Lev 16:11 (NIV) ""Aaron shall bring the bull for his own sin offering to make atonement for himself and his house and he is to slaughter the bull for his own sin offering."
After completing his sin offering the High Priest was to take two goats provided from the Israelite community and he is to cast lots for them. The term scapegoat or Azazel depending on the Bible translation you are using is found three times in Scripture in Leviticus 16.
Lev 16:8 (NIV) "He is to cast lots for the two goats—one lot for the LORD and the other for the scapegoat."
Lev 16:9 (NIV) "Aaron shall bring the goat whose lot falls to the LORD and sacrifice it for a sin offering."
Lev 16:10 (NIV) "But the goat chosen by lot as the scapegoat shall be presented alive before the LORD to be used for making atonement by sending it into the desert as a scapegoat."
Lev 16:20 NIV) ""When Aaron has finished making atonement for the Most Holy Place, the Tent of Meeting and the altar, he shall bring forward the live goat."
Lev 16:21 (NIV) "He is to lay both hands on the head of the live goat and confess over it all the wickedness and rebellion of the Israelites—all their sins—and put them on the goat’s head. He shall send the goat away into the desert in the care of a man appointed for the task."
Lev 16:22 (NIV) "The goat will carry on itself all their sins to a solitary place; and the man shall release it in the desert."
Lev 16:26 (NIV) ""The man who releases the goat as a scapegoat must wash his clothes and bathe himself with water; afterward he may come into the camp."

 

[RuthHannah]

Please show me where I or Lev 16 says anything about Satan atoning for sin. What I said is that Satan is the author of sin...

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

The ultimate blame for sin is placed squarely on his head where it belongs. The Goat that was sacrificed is the shadow of Jesus Christ, and His DEATH atones for our sins.

Now explain to me how the goat that was led into the wilderness and released ALIVE is the one who died for our sins.

(Oops, this must be read in conjunction with the earlier post I made where I waded through Lev 16 showing one goat pictured Christ and one pictured the Devil.)

How can the high priest confess his sins and the sins of Israel over Satan? Remember the scapegoat is for atonement for Israel to God. Can God’s people make atonement with Satan? NO. Will Satan forgive them and remove their sins? NO.

 

[john832]

How can the high priest confess his sins and the sins of Israel over Satan? Remember the scapegoat is for atonement for Israel to God. Can God’s people make atonement with Satan? NO. Will Satan forgive them and remove their sins? NO.

Uh, who introduced sin to man? Christ? Who is the ultimate author of sin? Christ? Who is a wandering star? Christ?

How many perfect sacrifices did Christ make? Two? One by being killed on a stake and another by being turned out into the desert (wilderness) to wander?

So tell me, how many times was Christ sacrificed? Once or twice?

 

[zone]

No, he is incarcerated, pictured by the scapegoat.



Yes and no, some of the sacrifices were penalties for violating certain statutes and judgements. One was penalized for certain infractions just as there are fines today for minor infractions.

Does a fine for a parking violation point to Christ's sacrifice? Is a violation of parking regulations worthy of the death penalty?



Well was he? Was He sacrificed? Was his blood shed?

Lev 16:8 And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot for the LORD, and the other lot for the scapegoat.

Read this verse carefully and then count how many were for the Eternal. Two or ONE?

Lev 16:10 But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the LORD, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness.

Don't you have a little bit of problem here with the scapegoat being presented ALIVE before the Eternal? Christ DIED for our sins, He was not presented alive.



So, Christ really did not have to die for our sins? He asked that very same question...

Mat 26:38 Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.
Mat 26:39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
Mat 26:40 And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour?
Mat 26:41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.
Mat 26:42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.

And the Father answered how? "Yeah, be alright, we'll just let you skate on outta here without giving your life." Christ was brutally beaten (the beating probably would have killed Him) and then hung on a stake until He DIED. He didn't just wander off into the wilderness.

By the way, I am not an SDA and have many differences with them but what you are spouting is protestant hogwash not founded on scripture.

just leave this topic alone. you blaspheme continually.

 

[Kerry]

To the OP, I don't know what yall been discussing. But if you are talking about those who live after the trib. Yes, they are given 100 years to accept Jesus and if they do not they will die. This given in Isaiah, forgive me not knowing the chapter or verse. I am sure that you can google it and see for your self. Trust no man, just the word.