Jeremiah 17:5
Thus saith the Lord; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man,(Like Joseph Prince) and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord.
Seducing spirits and doctrines of devils
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Jeremiah 17:5
Thus saith the Lord; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man,(Like Joseph Prince) and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord.
Do you ever wonder why Jesus warned the Churches in revelation chapter 2 and 3 ? The wicked is going to hell no matter how much Jesus one drips of the edge of He's lips while living in transgression (Matt 7:21-23).
Revelation 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. 6But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate. 7He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
14But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication. 15So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate. 16Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth. 17He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna
19I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first. 20Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 21And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
25But that which ye have already hold fast till I come. 26And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations
3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. 2Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.3Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. 4Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. 5He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. 6He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name. 9Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. 10Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. 11Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. 12Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God
15I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. 16So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. 17Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: 18I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. 19As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. 20Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. 21To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. 22He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
So, now every rich believer that ever lived is to be in "woe" because you take scripture out of context? My goodness your spiritual understanding of truth is causing our heads to shake in dis-belief. And do you not still wonder why people have a hard time relating to your posts?
Oh well...have your fill!....
All believers ought to be doing this:
Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 20The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? 21Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. 22But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.23Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. 24And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. 25When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? 26But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.27Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? 28And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life. 30But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.
Acts 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.43And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles. 44And all that believed were together, and had all things common;45And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. 46And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, 47Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
I didn't see anything in the verses that points to anyone losing their salvation, if it did it would contradict John 6:39. God gave me to Jesus and He will not lose me. He may beat the daylights out of me but he wont lose me.
John 6:39 KJV
And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Jude 1:12 12These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;13Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.
24Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
2 Timothy 4:10 For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus unto Dalmatia.
Luke 22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: 32But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
Matthew 13:18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower. 19When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side. 20But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; 21Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended. 22He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful. 23But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandethit; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
Read my post again, clearly you can fall from grace by being overcome by the devil and believing the lies and becoming unfruitful.
Judas was also chosen.....
John 17:12
While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Now go back and read my first couple of posts concerning the falling away from the faith that was also to be fulfilled first, and the revelation about the son of perdition.
I read the first one and this one carefully... I already know all those verses and none of them speak of a born again believer loosing his salvation, sorry they just don't say it.
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popeye
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RobbyEarl
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First doctrine of devil once saved always saved, Satan loves this doctrine and is why it is so proliferate. Second rhymes with the first infant baptism Satan eats this for lunch. The church has failed and fallen for doctrines of demons and is why Killiary will probably be our next president. Yes America will vote for a known killer, what did she say "who cares". I guess we don't. We will put people in prison for killing a dog and honor those who kill their babies. Doctrines of devils do really know what that is. We will save the whale, but kill our babies. Anyway, we have been given over to a debased mind, why, because we have rejected God and His statutes and embraced psychology and evolution. The majority of churches deny the power of God and look to humanity. Yes the doctrines of demons is a live and well in the good ole US of A.
There is power, power , wonder working power in the blood of the Lamb. Why don't we preach that any more and why don't we go to church on Sunday night anymore?
There is power, power , wonder working power in the blood of the Lamb. Why don't we preach that any more and why don't we go to church on Sunday night anymore?
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ember
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as long as people still love the sound of their own voice...or post in this case
this thread is whacked out and does not even touch on what the Bible calls doctrines of demons...there is only ONE devil but many demons...folks are ignorant of the Greek but fancy themselves scholars
IMO, the purpose, once again, for this thread was to cause adversarial discussion (polite word for warfare) between opposing views on scripture
there is no truth here...spirit probably so
and you can quote me
and whatever
Once again, you have pulled a scripture out of context, and ascribed who Jesus was talking about to the wrong group of people.
"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.16 You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?17 So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit.18 A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit.19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.20 Thus you will recognize them by their fruits." Matt 7:15-20
Notice that Jesus is specifically pointing out that it is false prophets, or unbelievers who are thrown into the fire! When Jesus says "you will recognize them by their fruits." He is not referring to the disciples being "fruit checkers." In fact he is saying that they are diseased trees, which bear bad fruit, and those are false prophets - like the Pharisees who looked at the outward keeping of the law, instead of the looking to the heart and producing the fruits of the Holy Spirit.
In fact, Matthew 7 is the finish of the Sermon on the Mount, started in Matthew 5 and 6. You need to read and understand 3 chapters, to say nothing of understanding the background of the book in order to fully understand what Jesus was saying about God fruit and bad fruit.
And the verses above are preceded by this:
"Judge not, that you be not judged.2 For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you.3 Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye?5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye." Matt 7:1-5
Now those are some sharp words from the Master we all need to remember!
But getting back to good fruit and bad fruit, this was a metaphor or parable Jesus often used. He used it because he lived in a country where much fruit was grown, and people were generally familiar with the procedures and processes of growing fruit trees, olive trees and of course, vines! I have been gardening for over 40 years, but only rarely in places where it was warm enough to grow fruit trees. I could never bear to prune trees and the crop was not good. I am now living in a vineyard and fruit tree growing country.
Since moving, I have observed the vines and trees being radically cut back. The vines look like dead stumps in fall. I was worried the first year there would be no crop at all, but sure enough, the trees and vines pushed out new leaves then flowers that turned into very good fruit!
John 15 is particularly instructive in its use of the vine and fruit metaphor! Jesus prunes us! Jesus throws into the fire anyone who dies not abide or remain in him. But what does that mean?
"I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser.2 Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit.3 Already you are clean because of the word that I have spoken to you.4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me.5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.6 If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.7 If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.8 By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit and so prove to be my disciples.9 As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Abide in my love.10 If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.11 These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full.12 “This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.13 Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends.14 You are my friends if you do what I command you.15 No longer do I call you servants,for the servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all that I have heard from my Father I have made known to you.16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.17 These things I command you, so that you will love one another." John 15:1-17
So does this mean we lose our salvation if we do not abide in Christ, as some would interpret the above passage? If you stop at verse 5-6, it would seem like that is the intent and purpose of this passage. But in fact, if we read verse 5 and 6 correctly, we will realize that it is not about us throwing ourselves (the branches) into the fire, (because of sin?) In fact as branches, we cannot throw ourselves into the fire. The vintner has to gather the withered branches and throw them in the fire. And neither can we harvest ourselves, to bear much fruit. Branches cannot harvest themselves. That is for the farmer (the Father) and his workers to do. In other words, God is sovereign in this metaphor and we bear much fruit by abiding or as the more modern and perhaps a closer translation - we remain in Christ. And we remain in Christ and bear much fruit, beause the Father has chosen us!
And so we hit verse 16!!
"You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you." John 15:16
So first, Jesus is talking to his disciples. Eleven disciples were wheat and one was a tare. He is reminding the wheat that they need to remain in him. How does this "abiding" happen? By obeying his command to love one another! Jesus' message is always one of love.
Second, Jesus told us that he chose us, we did not chose him! And in choosing us, he has high expectations that we will remain in him, and we will love one another, and we will bear much good fruit! Even more than an expectation, is the anticipation of what those he had chosen will do for Jesus and the Kingdom of God!
Finally, Jesus is quite clear in an earlier chapter as to how ALL PEOPLE will know and recognize Jesus disciples. And that is that they will "have love for one another." This is the message of the kingdom, and as we bear fruit, the fruit is from the Spirit and the most important one is love!
"By this all men will know you are my disciples that you have love for one another." John 13:35
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Well, starting with your last sentence, who's the 'we'?
I know lotsa ppl that go to church Sunday night, Wed night, Sat morn prayer, Sunday , all day sometimes, Fri nite, actually every night of the week for various meetings and things, the body of Christ is alive and vibrant, and church buildings have different levels of activity on different days.
As far as the blood of Christ, ppl like Grace7's, ladylynn, a whole host of others,
have been telling about the blood of Christ,
the grace of God,
the finished work on the cross,
the absolute truth of the resurrection,
the empty tomb,
full forgiveness of sins past, present and future,
once for all forever,
the joy of the Lord,
the joy of salvation,
the gift of eternal life,
the promise of being saved, sealed and kept
by the work and power of God
apart from any works by man,
the promise of the second coming,
the promise of Jesus taking us
to be with Him in His Kingdom forever...etc.,
...All these things because of the blood
shed for us by Jesus Christ or Lord,
our God, our Savior, our King,
and our Friend, Hallelujah...
Right here on these threads,
and in countless churches around the world!
And ppl are being saved as we speak! \
/ The church hasn't failed, and if more ppl were told the truth...
that when Jesus saves you, He saves you forever,
eternally secure, once you're saved, you're saved,
because HE's the One that does the saving,
and nobody can change that or separate the saved from Him or His love, or snatch His own possession from His own hand because He's the Good Shepherd and what's His, is His,
He said, 'It is finished' and that's the fact, jack, ...
Yes if more ppl were told that truth, perhaps we'd see more of the love and joy and peace everyone seems to say they want.....
But maybe because there's so much 'pound ppl into obedience' preaching, like we see alot of here...
obey! follow the rules! get water baptised or else!
keep all the commandments always!
God's out to get you,
so you Better stop your sinning, you rotten sinner! ! etc., ...
That may be why the church,
according to some, is failing.
Jesus died to set men free, and yet there's so many who claim to believe in Jesus that want to hang another yoke of bondage around ppl's necks, and in some cases, just when they're coming to faith in Christ.
THAT is a doctrine from the pit, ... keeping ppl from the freedom that Jesus shed His blood specifically to purchase for them, and denying them salvation by grace through faith in Christ alone!
May those who have been at error here see the truth,
grasp the freedom,
and enjoy salvation in Christ now and forever,
and stop all this silliness and legalism,
for Jesus' sake and glory,
Amen!Then you need to take the blindfolds off and read the message Jesus Christ had to the seven churches in revelation chapter 2 and 3:
Also did you read Matthew 7 21-23 ? This is talking about believers here who are not obedient to the law:
21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
Build Your House on the Rock
Matt 7:24 “Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock.26And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.27And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it.”
Revelation 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. 16So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Do you ever wonder why Jesus warned the Churches in revelation chapter 2 and 3 ? The wicked is going to hell no matter how much Jesus one drips of the edge of He's lips while living in transgression (Matt 7:21-23).
Revelation 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. 6But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate. 7He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
14But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac tocast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.15So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate. 16Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth. 17He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna
19I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first. 20Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that womanJezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 21And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
25But that which ye have already hold fast till I come. 26And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations
3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. 2Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.3Remember therefore how thou hastreceived and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. 4Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. 5He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. 6He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hastkept my word, and hast not denied my name. 9Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.10Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. 11Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. 12Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God
15I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. 16So then because thou artlukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. 17Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: 18I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. 19As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: bezealous therefore, and repent. 20Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. 21To him thatovercometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. 22He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
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:smoke: for the continuation of the revealation of one of our breathrens :8)
please
:read:
12. 1. And it came to pass, whiles the lion spake these words unto the eagle, I saw, 2. And, behold, the head that remained and the four wings appeared no more, and the two went unto it and set themselves up to reign, and their kingdom was small, and fill of uproar. 3. And I saw, and, behold, they appeared no more, and the whole body of the eagle was burnt so that the earth was in great fear: then awaked I out of the trouble and trance of my mind, and from great fear, and said unto my spirit, 4. Lo, this hast thou done unto me, in that thou searchest out the ways of the Highest. 5. Lo, yet am I weary in my mind, and very weak in my spirit; and little strength is there in me, for the great fear wherewith I was afflicted this night. 6. Therefore will I now beseech the Highest, that he will comfort me unto the end. 7. And I said, Lord that bearest rule, if I have found grace before thy sight, and if I am justified with thee before many others, and if my prayer indeed be come up before thy face; 8. Comfort me then, and shew me thy servant the interpretation and plain difference of this fearful vision, that thou mayest perfectly comfort my soul. 9. For thou hast judged me worthy to shew me the last times. 10. And he said unto me, This is the interpretation of the vision: 11. The eagle, whom thou sawest come up from the sea, is the kingdom which was seen in the vision of thy brother Daniel. 12. But it was not expounded unto him, therefore now I declare it unto thee. 13. Behold, the days will come, that there shall rise up a kingdom upon earth, and it shall be feared above all the kingdoms that were before it. 14. In the same shall twelve kings reign, one after another: 15. Whereof the second shall begin to reign, and shall have more time than any of the twelve. 16. And this do the twelve wings signify, which thou sawest. 17. As for the voice which thou heardest speak, and that thou sawest not to go out from the heads but from the midst of the body thereof, this is the interpretation: 18. That after the time of that kingdom there shall arise great strivings, and it shall stand in peril of failing: nevertheless it shall not then fall, but shall be restored again to his beginning. 19. And whereas thou sawest the eight small under feathers sticking to her wings, this is the interpretation: 20. That in him there shall arise eight kings, whose times shall be but small, and their years swift. 21. And two of them shall perish, the middle time approaching: four shall be kept until their end begin to approach: but two shall be kept unto the end. 22. And whereas thou sawest three heads resting, this is the interpretation: 23. In his last days shall the most High raise up three kingdoms, and renew many things therein, and they shall have the dominion of the earth, 24. And of those that dwell therein, with much oppression, above all those that were before them: therefore are they called the heads of the eagle. 25. For these are they that shall accomplish his wickedness, and that shall finish his last end. 26. And whereas thou sawest that the great head appeared no more, it signifieth that one of them shall die upon his bed, and yet with pain. 27. For the two that remain shall be slain with the sword. 28. For the sword of the one shall devour the other: but at the last shall he fall through the sword himself. 29. And whereas thou sawest two feathers under the wings passing over the head that is on the right side; 30. It signifieth that these are they, whom the Highest hath kept unto their end: this is the small kingdom and full of trouble, as thou sawest. 31. And the lion, whom thou sawest rising up out of the wood, and roaring, and speaking to the eagle, and rebuking her for her unrighteousness with all the words which thou hast heard; 32. This is the anointed, which the Highest hath kept for them and for their wickedness unto the end: he shall reprove them, and shall upbraid them with their cruelty. 33. For he shall set them before him alive in judgment, and shall rebuke them, and correct them. 34. For the rest of my people shall he deliver with mercy, those that have been pressed upon my borders, and he shall make them joyful until the coming of the day of judgment, whereof I have spoken unto thee from the the beginning. 35. This is the dream that thou sawest, and these are the interpretations. 36. Thou only hast been meet to know this secret of the Highest.
:now: as it is written in the following letter
Prophecy
The Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs contain a substantial amount of prophecy concerning the coming of the Messiah. From a Christian perspective, a number of statements can be associated with events in the life of Jesus. Many consider this significant since several of the books are thought to predate Jesus. This opinion, first propagated by Bacon in his Opus Majus, is hardly defended in modern scholarship, where all passages that clearly refer to Jesus are either considered Christian interpolations (by those who consider the author to be Jewish) or Christian writings (by those who consider the author to be Christian).
For example, compare the following passages from the Testament of Levi:
The heavens shall be opened, and from the temple of glory shall come upon him sanctification, with the Father's voice as from Abraham to Isaac. And the glory of the Most High shall be uttered over him, and the spirit of understanding and sanctification shall rest upon him in the water. (Levi 5:21-22)
with this passage from the Gospel of Matthew
As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him. And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased." (Matthew 3:16-17)
`∞` ... . as it is written
:ty:
godbless us all always
please
:read:
12. 1. And it came to pass, whiles the lion spake these words unto the eagle, I saw, 2. And, behold, the head that remained and the four wings appeared no more, and the two went unto it and set themselves up to reign, and their kingdom was small, and fill of uproar. 3. And I saw, and, behold, they appeared no more, and the whole body of the eagle was burnt so that the earth was in great fear: then awaked I out of the trouble and trance of my mind, and from great fear, and said unto my spirit, 4. Lo, this hast thou done unto me, in that thou searchest out the ways of the Highest. 5. Lo, yet am I weary in my mind, and very weak in my spirit; and little strength is there in me, for the great fear wherewith I was afflicted this night. 6. Therefore will I now beseech the Highest, that he will comfort me unto the end. 7. And I said, Lord that bearest rule, if I have found grace before thy sight, and if I am justified with thee before many others, and if my prayer indeed be come up before thy face; 8. Comfort me then, and shew me thy servant the interpretation and plain difference of this fearful vision, that thou mayest perfectly comfort my soul. 9. For thou hast judged me worthy to shew me the last times. 10. And he said unto me, This is the interpretation of the vision: 11. The eagle, whom thou sawest come up from the sea, is the kingdom which was seen in the vision of thy brother Daniel. 12. But it was not expounded unto him, therefore now I declare it unto thee. 13. Behold, the days will come, that there shall rise up a kingdom upon earth, and it shall be feared above all the kingdoms that were before it. 14. In the same shall twelve kings reign, one after another: 15. Whereof the second shall begin to reign, and shall have more time than any of the twelve. 16. And this do the twelve wings signify, which thou sawest. 17. As for the voice which thou heardest speak, and that thou sawest not to go out from the heads but from the midst of the body thereof, this is the interpretation: 18. That after the time of that kingdom there shall arise great strivings, and it shall stand in peril of failing: nevertheless it shall not then fall, but shall be restored again to his beginning. 19. And whereas thou sawest the eight small under feathers sticking to her wings, this is the interpretation: 20. That in him there shall arise eight kings, whose times shall be but small, and their years swift. 21. And two of them shall perish, the middle time approaching: four shall be kept until their end begin to approach: but two shall be kept unto the end. 22. And whereas thou sawest three heads resting, this is the interpretation: 23. In his last days shall the most High raise up three kingdoms, and renew many things therein, and they shall have the dominion of the earth, 24. And of those that dwell therein, with much oppression, above all those that were before them: therefore are they called the heads of the eagle. 25. For these are they that shall accomplish his wickedness, and that shall finish his last end. 26. And whereas thou sawest that the great head appeared no more, it signifieth that one of them shall die upon his bed, and yet with pain. 27. For the two that remain shall be slain with the sword. 28. For the sword of the one shall devour the other: but at the last shall he fall through the sword himself. 29. And whereas thou sawest two feathers under the wings passing over the head that is on the right side; 30. It signifieth that these are they, whom the Highest hath kept unto their end: this is the small kingdom and full of trouble, as thou sawest. 31. And the lion, whom thou sawest rising up out of the wood, and roaring, and speaking to the eagle, and rebuking her for her unrighteousness with all the words which thou hast heard; 32. This is the anointed, which the Highest hath kept for them and for their wickedness unto the end: he shall reprove them, and shall upbraid them with their cruelty. 33. For he shall set them before him alive in judgment, and shall rebuke them, and correct them. 34. For the rest of my people shall he deliver with mercy, those that have been pressed upon my borders, and he shall make them joyful until the coming of the day of judgment, whereof I have spoken unto thee from the the beginning. 35. This is the dream that thou sawest, and these are the interpretations. 36. Thou only hast been meet to know this secret of the Highest.
:now: as it is written in the following letter
Prophecy
The Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs contain a substantial amount of prophecy concerning the coming of the Messiah. From a Christian perspective, a number of statements can be associated with events in the life of Jesus. Many consider this significant since several of the books are thought to predate Jesus. This opinion, first propagated by Bacon in his Opus Majus, is hardly defended in modern scholarship, where all passages that clearly refer to Jesus are either considered Christian interpolations (by those who consider the author to be Jewish) or Christian writings (by those who consider the author to be Christian).
For example, compare the following passages from the Testament of Levi:
The heavens shall be opened, and from the temple of glory shall come upon him sanctification, with the Father's voice as from Abraham to Isaac. And the glory of the Most High shall be uttered over him, and the spirit of understanding and sanctification shall rest upon him in the water. (Levi 5:21-22)
with this passage from the Gospel of Matthew
As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him. And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased." (Matthew 3:16-17)
`∞` ... . as it is written
:ty:
godbless us all always
Can you fall short of the grace of God ?
Romans 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. 24For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
Romans 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. 24For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
:smoke: as it is written
:read:
2 Timoteo: 3. 4. Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5. Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
6. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
7. Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
8. Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
9. But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.
10. But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,
:8) is this ours to own? or it is ours to obey ... .
as if someone who wants to earn the words of god
as its own in its own mind but not us :rofl:
:now: lets continue
please
:read:
11. Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.
12. Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
13. But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
→ try not to take ourselves unto the thinking of somebody who thoughts that
a vision of someone is his/her to own for they only want to share the wisdom of god
unto all ... .
. ... take ut or leave it
its all up to them who choice to believe it or not
as it says
Love the Lord through all your life, and one another with a true heart
Love yea one another from the heart; and if a man sin against thee, speak peacefully to him, and in thy soul hold not guile; and if he repent and confess, forgive him. But if he deny it, do not get into a passion with him, lest catching the poison from thee he take to swearing, and so then sin doubly …
Love the Lord and your neighbor.
Anger is blindness, and does not suffer to see any man with truth
Hatred, therefore is evil; etc.
and as it is written ...... .
:ty:
godbless us all always
:read:
2 Timoteo: 3. 4. Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5. Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
6. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
7. Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
8. Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
9. But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.
10. But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,
:8) is this ours to own? or it is ours to obey ... .
as if someone who wants to earn the words of god
as its own in its own mind but not us :rofl:
:now: lets continue
please
:read:
11. Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.
12. Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
13. But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
→ try not to take ourselves unto the thinking of somebody who thoughts that
a vision of someone is his/her to own for they only want to share the wisdom of god
unto all ... .
. ... take ut or leave it
its all up to them who choice to believe it or not
as it says
Love the Lord through all your life, and one another with a true heart
Love yea one another from the heart; and if a man sin against thee, speak peacefully to him, and in thy soul hold not guile; and if he repent and confess, forgive him. But if he deny it, do not get into a passion with him, lest catching the poison from thee he take to swearing, and so then sin doubly …
Love the Lord and your neighbor.
Anger is blindness, and does not suffer to see any man with truth
Hatred, therefore is evil; etc.
and as it is written ...... .
:ty:
godbless us all always
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Of course we can fall short of grace..by going back tot he law..the whole book of Galatians is about Juadizers coming in and adding the law unto those in Christ. Gal. 5:4
Here is a short 13 min video that speaks about this for those that like to watch videos
[video=youtube;h2c0SbFim6w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2c0SbFim6w[/video]
E
ember
Guest
I'll just say it again
this thread, like so many lately, had an agenda...so what if scripture gets so twisted that even though the author was addressing unsaved people, or people who did not actually exhibit a Christian life, that it is applied to those who ARE saved and living for God
there are a few posters here that make it impossible for anything to be discussed in a proper manner because of the accusatory way they approach salvation
it's all about judgement and condemnation and they go on and on and on
it is SO past time that was stopped so that NORMAL people can have NORMAL interactions without being accused of being rabid sinners and evil reprobates and dirty nasty sinners and spawn of satan
I think most people are up to here with it and just want it to stop
the BDF should be an opportunity to learn and discuss..folks are not always going to agree...but for some time now, it about just does not even matter what subject is posted, a handful of people come along and turn it into their personal hobby horse and people are discouraged and they leave...not just the thread but the forum
I just wish that the next time one of these types of threads begin, that it is ignored...eventually, they will take their agenda somewhere else
I mean how many times are folks going to respond and give opportunity for a thread like this to go on and on...it's abuse of the privilege of posting here. I would think by now that it would be seen that nothing is going to change...if you believe grace alone saves? you are evil and there is no hope for you...so why even answer this nonsense?
they WANT you to answer...so they can slap you upside the head with twisted scripture and judge you in ways that God never would and all the time they talk about how righteous they are
get over it already!!!...ignore them
this thread, like so many lately, had an agenda...so what if scripture gets so twisted that even though the author was addressing unsaved people, or people who did not actually exhibit a Christian life, that it is applied to those who ARE saved and living for God
there are a few posters here that make it impossible for anything to be discussed in a proper manner because of the accusatory way they approach salvation
it's all about judgement and condemnation and they go on and on and on
it is SO past time that was stopped so that NORMAL people can have NORMAL interactions without being accused of being rabid sinners and evil reprobates and dirty nasty sinners and spawn of satan
I think most people are up to here with it and just want it to stop
the BDF should be an opportunity to learn and discuss..folks are not always going to agree...but for some time now, it about just does not even matter what subject is posted, a handful of people come along and turn it into their personal hobby horse and people are discouraged and they leave...not just the thread but the forum
I just wish that the next time one of these types of threads begin, that it is ignored...eventually, they will take their agenda somewhere else
I mean how many times are folks going to respond and give opportunity for a thread like this to go on and on...it's abuse of the privilege of posting here. I would think by now that it would be seen that nothing is going to change...if you believe grace alone saves? you are evil and there is no hope for you...so why even answer this nonsense?
they WANT you to answer...so they can slap you upside the head with twisted scripture and judge you in ways that God never would and all the time they talk about how righteous they are
get over it already!!!...ignore them
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