Seeker Friendly, vs tradition vs modernization vs distorted gospel

  • Thread starter Thread starter Sophia
  • Start date Start date
  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
S

Sophia

Guest
There are several universalist ecumenical groups, cheap grace groups, social justice groups, and "emergent church" groups
that have distorted or removed the Gospel from their teachings.
These groups place themselves as the image of the "modern" Church.
They are not Church at all, but heretics/wolves playing the role of sheep.

Many "traditionalists" accept their image as the general view of all "modern" congregations.
That assumption is the very intent that Satan had when he began those groups.

He want you to hate change. He wants you to cling to man's traditions.
He wants you to wear suits and ties and shiny shoes, and stare blankly at a mediocre aging choir.
He wants you to be stuck in a comfortable rut, comfortably singing comfortable tunes with mediocre doctrine in the lyrics, while comfortably not engaging the decaying community around your comfortable church building.
He wants you to be politically invested, and distracted by worldly affairs.

He hates passionate worship and firey sermons and relevant teaching tools.
He hates small group studies and honest confession and intercessory prayer.
He hates songs about God's Glory and His active power and work.
He hates it when people step outside their comfort zones to help others.
He hates it when people reject society to follow Christ alone.

Tradition is the corpse of wisdom. Remember your first love, and come back to Him. Don't reject change when change is needed.
Just as Isaac Watts and Fannie Crosby modernized the hymns of their era, so we must do the same.
Just as Luther and Calvin cast off the chains of the false church in their day, so we must cast off the falsehoods of our day.
Just as Christ stood against the temple market, so we must stand against the "for-profit" church mentality of our fathers, and the rest of the sins of our fathers.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I can understand where you are coming from... After-all the Pharisees got stuck in tradition...

However, to forget the men and women who labored for our chance to know Christ, and to look back and see many great revivals coming from these, suit wearing, aging, political Christians... I have to wonder if they were not onto something...



I am personally very very afraid of people who suggest we should not get involved in politics... Paul wrote to the Emperor of Rome personally.
Joseph, Moses, Shadrach, Meshach, Abendigo, Daniel... All these men were very powerful political leaders, in lands that they were captive... And they were very Righteous men in Christs eyes...



I am also reminded of Paul, hinting that the greatest thing in his eyes for the church was unity...When speaking to the Corinthian church who could be viewed as one of the most lost, scattered, confused, immoral congregations in history... Paul did not first address sexual immorality, false teachings, lies, deceit, or paganism... But he said "I hear there is division among you".

Who is greater? The one who notices the difference in others and ostracizes them because of it, or the one who notices the difference loves them, builds them up, and teaches them...
Luke 6




I am not defending those who water down the scriptures, a special curse is laid out for those people (and God knows I am guilty of this a few times in my life).

I am just saying, the Gospel is not shown through new music, new preaching methods, new ways to evangelize, or anything new...
The Gospel is shown the same way it has been shown for 6,000 years (respectfully)...
Through the believers lives...
 
  • Like
Reactions: crossnote
I can understand where you are coming from... After-all the Pharisees got stuck in tradition...

However, to forget the men and women who labored for our chance to know Christ, and to look back and see many great revivals coming from these, suit wearing, aging, political Christians... I have to wonder if they were not onto something...



I am personally very very afraid of people who suggest we should not get involved in politics... Paul wrote to the Emperor of Rome personally.
Joseph, Moses, Shadrach, Meshach, Abendigo, Daniel... All these men were very powerful political leaders, in lands that they were captive... And they were very Righteous men in Christs eyes...



I am also reminded of Paul, hinting that the greatest thing in his eyes for the church was unity...When speaking to the Corinthian church who could be viewed as one of the most lost, scattered, confused, immoral congregations in history... Paul did not first address sexual immorality, false teachings, lies, deceit, or paganism... But he said "I hear there is division among you".

Who is greater? The one who notices the difference in others and ostracizes them because of it, or the one who notices the difference loves them, builds them up, and teaches them...
Luke 6




I am not defending those who water down the scriptures, a special curse is laid out for those people (and God knows I am guilty of this a few times in my life).

I am just saying, the Gospel is not shown through new music, new preaching methods, new ways to evangelize, or anything new...
The Gospel is shown the same way it has been shown for 6,000 years (respectfully)...
Through the believers lives...
I love your zeal about this, and really enjoy your perspective.
I still hold to politics as being a worldly distraction away from the cause of Christ, but I did enjoy reading your post.
 
Sophia said:
Just as Luther and Calvin cast off the chains of the false church in their day, so we must cast off the falsehoods of our day.
If I had to name one man in all of history who has probably caused more damage to true Christendom than anybody else, then that man would be Jean Calvin.

Also, although Luther brought some good "reformation", he wasn't free from error himself. In fact, his absolute hatred of the Jews is a pretty well documented historical fact.
 
Like Paul states, regardless of motive, I rejoice that Christ is preached,
but we all know that there is a better and more authoritative way than this seeker movement.

I am not sure he had false gospels in mind. I do not believe the gospel would leave out repentance. That is a foundational basic in coming to Christ. For Godly sorrow works repentance unto salvation (2 Corinthians 7:10). One has to repent and accept Jesus and not merely believe on Him. For what on Earth are we being saved from? How can you be forgiven if you are not truly sorry for your sin? Is somebody still living in sin truly sorry for their sin? No.
 
I am personally very very afraid of people who suggest we should not get involved in politics... Paul wrote to the Emperor of Rome personally.

Joseph, Moses, Shadrach, Meshach, Abendigo, Daniel... All these men were very powerful political leaders, in lands that they were captive... And they were very Righteous men in Christs eyes...
True, but the inherent danger with much, if not all, of the current church's involvement in politics is this:

Nobody can "legislate morality".

IOW, no external "law" is ever going to produce the necessary inward change which God Himself requires in which we're "circumcised in our HEARTS" and His laws are written upon the fleshy tables of the same. For example, we can seek to pass as many "laws" as we want to against "gay marriage", but is that really going to change anything? I mean, the gays are still going to be gay and even if they're forced to obey such a "law" they'll be obeying the same begrudgingly and not in sincerity. Don't get me wrong, I'm NOT suggesting that the church ought to be silent in regard to such issues, but I am suggesting that any "laws" need to be INWARD as opposed to OUTWARD and such is only possible via the preaching and receiving of the gospel.
 
I am not sure he had false gospels in mind. I do not believe the gospel would leave out repentance. That is a foundational basic in coming to Christ. For Godly sorrow works repentance unto salvation (2 Corinthians 7:10). One has to repent and accept Jesus and not merely believe on Him. For what on Earth are we being saved from? How can you be forgiven if you are not truly sorry for your sin? Is somebody still living in sin truly sorry for their sin? No.
Amen.

Paul wasn't talking about "false Christs" being preached or "another gospel" being preached, but rather about those who merely sought to add affliction to him in his bonds by railing against the true Christ and the true gospel.
 
Indeed my friend. The Scriptures say, For the city of Nineveh will rise up in Judgment against this generation because they repented at the preaching of Jonah. In context, the Ninevites version of repentance was defined turning from their evil ways in the book of Jonah. So this whole... "I just believe in Jesus and that is enough for me" garbage is not the gospel and it is not going to cut it for their salvation. For the Ninevites will rise up in Judgment against these false types of preachers and teachers.
 
True, but the inherent danger with much, if not all, of the current church's involvement in politics is this:

Nobody can "legislate morality".

IOW, no external "law" is ever going to produce the necessary inward change which God Himself requires in which we're "circumcised in our HEARTS" and His laws are written upon the fleshy tables of the same. For example, we can seek to pass as many "laws" as we want to against "gay marriage", but is that really going to change anything? I mean, the gays are still going to be gay and even if they're forced to obey such a "law" they'll be obeying the same begrudgingly and not in sincerity. Don't get me wrong, I'm NOT suggesting that the church ought to be silent in regard to such issues, but I am suggesting that any "laws" need to be INWARD as opposed to OUTWARD and such is only possible via the preaching and receiving of the gospel.

How can we hope to have any credibility when we teach Salvation by Grace;if we try to deal with moral issues by passing laws! Make Disciples and Laws will not be needed
 
There are several universalist ecumenical groups, cheap grace groups , social justice groups, and "emergent church" groups
that have distorted or removed the Gospel from their teachings.
These groups place themselves as the image of the "modern" Church.
They are not Church at all, but heretics/wolves playing the role of sheep.

Many "traditionalists" accept their image as the general view of all "modern" congregations.
That assumption is the very intent that Satan had when he began those groups.

He want you to hate change. He wants you to cling to man's traditions.
He wants you to wear suits and ties and shiny shoes, and stare blankly at a mediocre aging choir.
He wants you to be stuck in a comfortable rut, comfortably singing comfortable tunes with mediocre doctrine in the lyrics, while comfortably not engaging the decaying community around your comfortable church building.
He wants you to be politically invested, and distracted by worldly affairs.

He hates passionate worship and firey sermons and relevant teaching tools.
He hates small group studies and honest confession and intercessory prayer.
He hates songs about God's Glory and His active power and work.
He hates it when people step outside their comfort zones to help others.
He hates it when people reject society to follow Christ alone.

Tradition is the corpse of wisdom. Remember your first love, and come back to Him. Don't reject change when change is needed.
Just as Isaac Watts and Fannie Crosby modernized the hymns of their era, so we must do the same.
Just as Luther and Calvin cast off the chains of the false church in their day, so we must cast off the falsehoods of our day.
Just as Christ stood against the temple market, so we must stand against the "for-profit" church mentality of our fathers, and the rest of the sins of our fathers.
I liked most of this post. But I do have to ask you one question I don't understand.

What did you pay for Grace?
 
I liked most of this post. But I do have to ask you one question I don't understand.

What did you pay for Grace?
I never could pay.
Jesus paid it all.
The Grace given to me is unmerited, and the mercy I have received is undeserved.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I never could pay.
Jesus paid it all.
The Grace given to me is unmerited, and the mercy I have received is undeserved.

Sophia

Just accept a time is coming when all of physical Israel will become part of spiritual Israel, and well, you got the whole package me thinks :)

Just kidding, great posts
 
I never could pay.
Jesus paid it all.
The Grace given to me is unmerited, and the mercy I have received is undeserved.
Yet, you make it sound as if grace should cost something by mocking with the term, "cheap Grace."
 
Yet, you make it sound as if grace should cost something by mocking with the term, "cheap Grace."
By "cheap grace" it's about the price paid by Christ,
as if Grace is a cheap commodity that we can abuse to do whatever we want.

The price paid was very high. But not paid by us.
 
Wow..spoken from the depths of my own heart!!!! I love it..thankyou for your passion
I have to admit, I don't see that at all. It still sounds to me like she is making fun of some people, and I don't understand why.
 
let us not forget, the 'greasy-grace' that is very common,
which is a license to ''sliver in sinful slime' and do everything
contrary to what is 'Good and Right in our Father's eyes.
 
Ya know, I hear a lot of these cute little labels thrown around as though the speaker knows, firsthand, about all the things they are subtlety accusing other Christians of doing. But, I am quite a bit older than most of you, and I imagine it is safe to say I have seen as much, if not more than the average poster..... and I have yet to see all this hell-bent for leather living you guys keep suggesting.

Where are you finding all this?