Self Examination: Do you understand the Gospel?

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InSpiritInTruth said:
That's right, grace through righteousness, and grace through faith. Any thing that is not of faith is sin.
So if one is sinning every day, or wilfully sinning as some have already confessed, are they truly being faithful? Is committing and living in sin of the faith?


Again their own words prove they do not have faith and are reprobate.
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Living in sin and commiting sin from time to time is not the same.

Will you answer my question in post 56?
 
BenFTW said:
I am witnessing people make arguments for doctrines that are completely contrary to Jesus' finished work at the cross of Calvary.
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Ben you know what you are doing. You believe when Jesus died the time of grace began, and the end of legalism or religion ended. That is your religious sacred cow. To even admit living breathing Jesus loving, righteous living christians do not believe this hurts you so so so so much, you cannot bring yourself to admit it.

EG has spent weeks saying I am a legalist, repent. He ignores my honest statements of faith and experience and calls it all lies.

You just have to face fully functioning christians do not follow your faith. Ofcourse that brings into question the spirit that is guiding you, all your history and thoughts etc. But that is what we call a real spiritual dilemma. It is also a mystery of the work of God in peoples hearts. But maybe you actually have too small a picture of God the creator, and you have read in too much to what is there for your own reasons and have been deceived.

It is not the first time sincere people have got things wrong. Sincere christians gave heroin as a cure to opium addiction in China, and people died. Sincerity is never the definition of truth.

So dear reader those who claim to not be religious over their beliefs, when faced with admiting what others believe, they cannot do it. Talk about hypocracy, 100%.
 
3Scoreand10 said:
One simple question for you.
When was the last time you sinned?
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If I told you the truth you wouldn't believe me anyway. Why would you believe my words when you reject what the Lord says is true about truly being set free from sin. Besides, what I am and what you are does not make the words of God any less true. If I speak contrary to the words of God, then point it out.
 
PeterJens said:
Grace7x77 The difference between us all is very simple.

You guys believe when Christ died on the cross sin was dealt with for everyone, irrespective of faith.

We believe when Jesus died, the sacrifice is only for those who accept it by faith. It is a new covenant of Jesus's sacrifice conditional on we follow Him.

This creates two different theologies. Are you not man enough to admit this reality, or is it better for you to continue the illusion we have the same beliefs, but we are evil legalists who lie and deceive and to admit this is the truth is to give us power.

It would not surprise me if this is your idea, because ofcourse satan must be empowering us, and giving an inch to him is evil.
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Talk about putting words in someone else's mouth. None of us stand for Universalism, faith is required in order to receive forgiveness of sins (that Jesus paid for at the cross).
 
InSpiritInTruth said:
If I told you the truth you wouldn't believe me anyway. Why would you believe my words when you reject what the Lord says is true about truly being set free from sin. Besides, what I am and what you are does not make the words of God any less true. If I speak contrary to the words of God, then point it out.
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Everytime you say you live without sin , you lie and call God a liar.
I pray God will wake you up to the truth or hender you from teaching your heresy.
 
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Really? This happened to you today? It must be ground hog day then because you said the exact same words here > http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...ity-false-doctrine-proven-16.html#post2417118

Grace777x70 said:
I do have a great passion for Christ!..here is what knowing Him does for me.

I was also praying this morning and thinking about how the grace of Christ has affected me. I had the scripture come up where the Pharisees were arguing about whether a man was born blind or not after Jesus healed him. Of course the Pharisees were trying to discredit the message of Jesus. The man said.." All I know is that I was born blind but now I see."

This is what the gospel of the grace of Christ has done in my life:

I realize that these beliefs in the grace of God....especially the acceptance grace and the total forgiveness that Jesus bought and paid for with His blood....that these can be offensive to our religious beliefs and what we have been taught in church.

This gospel of the wondrous grace of Christ has had a beautiful affect on me. I am more in love with Jesus and the Father more then ever....in love with studying His word....praying in the spirit constantly with a heart full of joy!

This gospel has given me a compassion for other people and to reach out in love to them. To give more than I ever have with a heart full of love.

To live a holier life in Him...to be a witness of the life and love of our Lord in me.

If these are the horrible fruit of the grace of Christ in me....I want more!.....hyper-grace me more please my Lord and God!


I am living a much fuller life now, more deeply in love with Jesus and the Father then ever, free from the horrible religion of self-effort, having the love of God pour out to me to help others now that I understand the grace that is in Christ then I did when I was doing the self=performance based gospel ( which is not the gospel )

I was blind but now I see. I see Jesus and His finished work for me!

It will always be in eternity "Worthy is the Lamb"..it will never be.."Worthy is the Lamb......and me..because I did my part"

It has always been about Jesus and Him alone and it will always remain that for all eternity.
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BenFTW said:
Talk about putting words in someone else's mouth. None of us stand for Universalism, faith is required in order to receive forgiveness of sins (that Jesus paid for at the cross).
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Ok Ben. We only get forgiven our sins because we believe in Jesus. So the act of forgiveness is mitigated on faith.
Now this is progress, can I hold you personally to this statement. I realise I have to check everyone that they equally accept this point.

Now people are sent to hell because of sins or good deeds done in Christ?

I have to ask because yesterday this was your position, and I know you believed in Christ saving the world from sin, so you now need to clarify where you are on this position?
 
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
They just redefine repentance to suit their agenda. It's not the real deal.
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Sadly, I do not see yours as a real deal.. Your faith is not in Christ, but all the things you claim one must do to be saved, ie your own righteousness.

That is not repentance.
 
ForthAngel said:
What this inevitably leads to is a lack of recognition of sin nature.
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what lack of repentance does is lead people to believe they are not as sinful as they really are. and the penalty of sin can be done by works. It leads to faulty believe that eternal life is not eternal. but can be lost.
 
PeterJens said:
Grace7x77 The difference between us all is very simple.

You guys believe when Christ died on the cross sin was dealt with for everyone, irrespective of faith.

We believe when Jesus died, the sacrifice is only for those who accept it by faith. It is a new covenant of Jesus's sacrifice conditional on we follow Him.

This creates two different theologies. Are you not man enough to admit this reality, or is it better for you to continue the illusion we have the same beliefs, but we are evil legalists who lie and deceive and to admit this is the truth is to give us power.

It would not surprise me if this is your idea, because ofcourse satan must be empowering us, and giving an inch to him is evil.
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Jesus died and shed His blood to atone for the sins of the whole world. The sacrifice of Jesus and the atonement is only efficacious to those who receive it.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

While the call is universal only those who respond will benefit.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
3Scoreand10 said:
Everytime you say you live without sin , you lie and call God a liar.
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You cannot be "in Christ" and also "in sin" because "in Him" is no "sin". There is no life "in sin" only death.

Paul said you cannot live in sin any longer, is he also a liar?

Romans 6:2
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
 
PeterJens said:
EG has spent weeks saying I am a legalist, repent. He ignores my honest statements of faith and experience and calls it all lies.
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They are lies. You claim God will change a person, He will make a person free of sin. He will cause a person to work.

Then sadly say a person can fall from grace and lose salvation.

which means in reality, you do not believe God can do what you preach he can do. If you did, you would never preach man can overpower God and overcome his power to change them.
 
Stephen63 said:


I keep hearing things, like, "you can't do anything after conversion to lose your salvation." I would like to know how that is, whether you're saying 1. You no longer sin 2. No matter what you do, what sins you sin, how rebellious you become, Jesus paid it all, so it's alright .

The problems with these ideas & others is one single thing: faith. We entered into this covenant by faith, we live in this covenant by faith, & when we end doing so WE BREAK THE COVENANT. The entirety of this covenant is BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH.....not a one-time "decision" for Jesus Christ & kick back & slide in, but starting in faith, running the race by faith, & finishing our course by faith. Ignorance isn't acceptable, faithlessness isn't acceptable, & thinking it's all over 'cuz of a one-time "decision" isn't acceptable. THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH.....not by grace alone! And not a "saying" faith, either!

Note the scriptures:

Hebrews 10:19-29 (NASB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus, [SUP]20 [/SUP]by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh, [SUP]21 [/SUP]and since we have a great priest over the house of God, [SUP]22 [/SUP]let us draw near
with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. [SUP]23 [/SUP]Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful; [SUP]24 [/SUP]and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, [SUP]25 [/SUP]not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near. [SUP]26 [/SUP]For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, [SUP]27 [/SUP]but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY of a fire which will consume the adversaries. [SUP]28 [/SUP]Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. [SUP]29 [/SUP]How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?

Do we see the comparison between the two covenants? The writer is saying in a nutshell, "better covenant, more severe punishment (in Hell & lake of fire) for unbelief. Israel was promised a "promise land" & was commanded to take it by faith, & many died in the wilderness for unbelief.

How is it then, when these two covenants are compared with the same kind of judgement for BOTH, plainly stated, yet so many believe they can slide on in without living a life of obedience thru faith?

Here's where those folks mess it up royally..... DISOBEDIENCE IS UNBELIEF! The two cannot be separated. Rebelling from obedience is still as the sin of witchcraft, for the people strive to live a supernatural life "for God" using their own rules & methods. "Doing what's right in their own eyes".

THIS COVENANT IS BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH..... THROUGH MEANING THROUGHOUT OUR LIVES, THROUGHOUT OUR COURSE, THROUGHOUT OUR RACE..... This is "keeping the faith".

1 Corinthians 9:24 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
Hebrews 12:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
2 Timothy 4:7 (KJV) [SUP]7 [/SUP]I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
1 Peter 1:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Revelation 14:12 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
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If only you would see this from the perspective of grace and not from man's wisdom.

The new birth is a complete change from dead in sin to alive unto God. Just as the butterfly no longer thinks and acts as the caterpillar the Christian has a new heart and now desires to serve the Lord in place of sin.

The new man is the evidence of the new birth. Each must examine himself and not another in this matter. It is the Lord that ponereth the hearts and knows every man.

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
notuptome said:
Jesus died and shed His blood to atone for the sins of the whole world. The sacrifice of Jesus and the atonement is only efficacious to those who receive it.
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Yep. The efficacious part was being denied as this implied self work on behalf of the believer, which I was challenging.
 
InSpiritInTruth said:
You cannot be "in Christ" and also "in sin" because "in Him" is no "sin". There is no life "in sin" only death.

Paul said you cannot live in sin any longer, is he also a liar?

Romans 6:2
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
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Keep believing that you live without sin and be very afraid. Very, very afraid.
 
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