Shall we sin that grace may abound?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Yeah, i think.. how does someone, if a lost person, lost in sin, turn from sin?

It can for some, just mean..know you are a sinner and believe on Jesus Christ...just using that 'turn from sin' phrase.. but for others it is actually a work of changing behaviors before salvation. Hence the need for clarity.

I know what you mean.
Sin is transgression of the law.
I john 3:4

Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

A lost person who says I will use will power (works) to not transgress the law is in fact turning from sin.
This is the modern phrase for one of the two methods of salvation the Pharisees taught.

As a believer, I can turn from a sin to deciding I was wrong and am deciding to not sin as often as I recognize it as sin. Forgiveness for restoration to fellowship still occurs based upon the reconciliation of the cross.
However, before that as an unbeliever in Christ I was shown that sin condemns and believing in the wrong savior, me. John 3:18 KJV
As one recognizes their state of condemnation, they should see their need of the real Savior.
I agree with you, Admitted sin and condemnation is distinguished from turning from sin, reformation, cleaning up the life, etc. when we explain the gospel of Jesus Christ.

The one of many examples, Ron Comfort, currently a popular one, adds works to grace.
This is the subtle devilish way of the false prophet. I made the big error of enduring a pastor who taught this for a decade of my life.
Thinking back, I spoke to him about this a number of times privately. We only went soul winning together a couple of times and he asked why I lied when I led a man to Christ. It puzzled me why he asked and he wouldn't tell me. After seeing all his assistant pastor hires and deacons who preached a false gospel, I should have repented and left. All my friends there were saved, so it was a decision I put off .
It was an IFB church. Sad thing was that all of the others in the area were calvinistic hard core work hard salvationists. Ours was pretty good before we hired a hirling.
 
  • Like
Reactions: wattie
Yes, That's my point.
The term repent is constantly misrepresented by preachers like Ron Comfort. They lie to people about the term in order to impart upon grace the works of the law, just as the Pharicees did.

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

We know the application is dependent upon context since God Himself repented many times. He changed His mind about creating mankind and again changed His mind and decided to not destroy Nineveh.

Believers who are already saved need to repent of sins as frequently as necessary and confess them to God. This is a means of growth and getting back to on talking terms with our Father.
If they have repented of sin, they won't commit any more sins.
Unless they have repented of their earlier repentance.
As for salvation, the lost need to repent of trusting in idols or trusting in their own righteousness to trust Jesus as the only One Who was falsely Accused, tortured and crucified until death, buried and arose for our justification. He gives the purchased gift of everlasting life to all who come to Him in faith.
Idol worship is indeed something to repent of.
But that is part and parcel of repentance from sin.
 
If they have repented of sin, they won't commit any more sins.
Unless they have repented of their earlier repentance.

Idol worship is indeed something to repent of.
But that is part and parcel of repentance from sin.

Idolatry is trusting and worshipping false gods.
What does John 3:18 say?

18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
and 36
John the Baptist said,
36
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Who are you believing on, Jesus or self,
Jesus or false pagan gods,
Jesus or your works of righteousness, like "repenting of sins and committing them no more?"
The word believe is used exactly 100 times in this one gospel which was written to unbelievers so they would know how to be saved.


30And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: 31But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Guess how many times it says "repent of your sins?"
 
Idolatry is trusting and worshipping false gods.
I agree, idolatry is a sin.
What does John 3:18 say?
18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Amen !
and 36
John the Baptist said,
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Amen !
Who are you believing on, Jesus or self,
Jesus or false pagan gods,
Jesus !
Jesus or your works of righteousness, like "repenting of sins and committing them no more?"
Wait a minute...doesn't real belief foster obedience ?
How can a man believe in Jesus. and then go out and steal someone's car ?
The word believe is used exactly 100 times in this one gospel which was written to unbelievers so they would know how to be saved.
Believers act on their beliefs.
30And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: 31But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
Guess how many times it says "repent of your sins?"
The word repent(ed, ance) is used sixty times in the NT writings.
Including Jesus's statement in Luke 24:47..."And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem."
 
I agree, idolatry is a sin.

Amen !

Amen !

Jesus !
Glad to hear it! 👍
Wait a minute...doesn't real belief foster obedience ?
How can a man believe in Jesus. and then go out and steal someone's car ?
When a person places their faith in Christ, their spirit is born, they receive the gift of everlasting life and the Holy Spirit. Ephesians warns the church to grieve not the Spirit of God whereby ye are sealed until the day of redemption.
That means that we still have a sin nature that also is within us, in our flesh. God did not change the flesh along with that nature when we heard the gospel and believed. It's a daily choice, which is why believers are commanded throughout the old and new testaments to walk with God, confess their sins, crucify the flesh that wars against the spirit.
Believers act on their beliefs.

The word repent(ed, ance) is used sixty times in the NT writings.
Including Jesus's statement in Luke 24:47..."And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem."
Yes, and remission of sins comes when one changes their mind and decides that salvation is not through their good works of the flesh, but through the true Savior Jesus Christ. The gospel is explained in details throughout to let us know what that repentance (change of mind) is actually about. The problem is that few preachers ever care to do a word study on that term and teach that it is defined, "turn from sins.". It is not. God repents many times. I presume He knew that people would wrongly teach that, so He never used that particular word in John's gospel, but He did use believe because the book is singled out as the one written for the following purpose. Chapter 20
To believe the good news that He suffered for our sins and died in atonement, was buried and arose the third day.

27Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. 28And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. 30And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: 31But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
 
  • Like
Reactions: wattie
When a person places their faith in Christ, their spirit is born

No, their spirit is reborn.

That means that we still have a sin nature that also is within us

When I got born again I became a new creature in Christ, old things passed away, all things became new and are of God - 2 Corinthians 5:17

I've heard there are some who claim God gave them a sin nature so they had to keep living in sin and are never able to stop sinning. Weird because they didn't get this false teaching from the Word of God. It was those reformed preachers they follow that taught them that heresy.

Yes, and remission of sins comes when one changes their mind and decides that salvation is not through their good works of the flesh, but through the true Savior Jesus Christ

If one actually changed their minds they would stop walking in sin, but so many have been taught falsely that God gave them a sin nature and they can never ever stop living in sin and so that's what they do.

few preachers ever care to do a word study on that term and teach that it is defined, "turn from sins.". It is not.

So we can continue living in sin and we are still in right standing, even as we continually turn away from the Lord to live in sin?

Sounds like the devil's so called "gospel" since it downplays sin as though man no longer reaps what he sows and if man sows to the flesh he does not reap corruption.

I presume He knew that people would wrongly teach that

Jesus did teach we are to turn from sin through NT writers. Didn't you know this?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Freed18
No, their spirit is reborn.



When I got born again I became a new creature in Christ, old things passed away, all things became new and are of God - 2 Corinthians 5:17

I've heard there are some who claim God gave them a sin nature so they had to keep living in sin and are never able to stop sinning. Weird because they didn't get this false teaching from the Word of God. It was those reformed preachers they follow that taught them that heresy.



If one actually changed their minds they would stop walking in sin, but so many have been taught falsely that God gave them a sin nature and they can never ever stop living in sin and so that's what they do.



So we can continue living in sin and we are still in right standing, even as we continually turn away from the Lord to live in sin?

Sounds like the devil's so called "gospel" since it downplays sin as though man no longer reaps what he sows and if man sows to the flesh he does not reap corruption.



Jesus did teach we are to turn from sin through NT writers. Didn't you know this?

Seems like you missed the part about ....

For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives.”
Hebrews 12:6
 
  • Like
Reactions: wattie
For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives.”
Hebrews 12:6

Yes and you people think that even if the Lord's correction does not result in them turning away from living in sin they still go to Heaven anyway as they continue in sin. I've heard that false gospel before.

If we are saved even as we continue in sin, why would the Lord be trying to correct people to get them to turn away from living in sin?
 
Yes and you people think that even if the Lord's correction does not result in them turning away from living in sin they still go to Heaven anyway as they continue in sin. I've heard that false gospel before.

If we are saved even as we continue in sin, why would the Lord be trying to correct people to get them to turn away from living in sin?

Amazing how much power you give to man, he can even out sin grace.

People who harp on the sins of others ultimately have a problem with the Grace of God.

Jesus paid the sin debt for all mankind or He did not.

The false Good News is the one that states Christ Jesus is insufficient to save to the utter most.
 
Amazing how much power you give to man, he can even out sin grace.

Amazing how some people mock God claiming when they sow to the flesh they don't reap corruption as the Lord said they do.

John 8:34,35 - Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.

Matthew 13:41,42 - The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

John 15:1-2 - I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit

2 Corinthians 11:2-3 - For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.


Jesus paid the sin debt for all mankind or He did not.

What Jesus did is only applicable to those that abide in Him. Sinner abide in the flesh not in Christ.

This is entry level stuff you don't even know. Shameful actually.
 
Amazing how much power you give to man, he can even out sin grace.

There's a lot of false grace teaching these days. You seem to have gotten caught up in that.

Titus 2:11,12 - For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world

Jude 1:4 - For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Romans 6:1,2 - What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
 
Amazing how some people mock God claiming when they sow to the flesh they don't reap corruption as the Lord said they do.

John 8:34,35 - Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.

Matthew 13:41,42 - The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

John 15:1-2 - I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit

2 Corinthians 11:2-3 - For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.




What Jesus did is only applicable to those that abide in Him. Sinner abide in the flesh not in Christ.

This is entry level stuff you don't even know. Shameful actually.

Yeah big mistake responding to you, so I will not do it again.

People who take scripture verses out of their context over and over again do not really understand the message.

The security and assurance of the believer IS the Good News and there is no good news without it,

Not one single person has yet to answer how much sin is takes to lose one's salvation and neither has anyone found the clear scripture where God states he will remove the justified status of a believer.

You read scripture with the spirit of condemnation which is the direct result of your denial that we are secure in Him.
 
  • Like
Reactions: wattie
Yeah big mistake responding to you, so I will not do it again.

Yeah those who don't want what the Lord says in His Word to get in the way of what they believe don't want someone telling them what the Lord says in His Word.

Not one single person has yet to answer how much sin is takes to lose one's salvation and neither has anyone found the clear scripture where God states he will remove the justified status of a believer.

It's been posted before but those who refuse to accept the whole counsel of God choose to walk in fake grace:

Jesus REJECTS Some Believers

John 8:34,35 - Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.

Matthew 13:41,42 - The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

John 15:1-2 - I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit

2 Corinthians 11:2-3 - For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Romans 11:21,22 - For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

2 Peter 2:20 (Companion Scripture - Matthew 12:43-45)
For if after they have escaped the pollution of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

Matthew 12:43-45 (Companion Scripture - 2 Peter 2:20)
When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

Hebrews 3:12 - Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

*A person cannot depart from something they were never a part of to begin with
*Notice that this is speaking to "brethren" so this is a warning from the Lord to Christians.

1 Timothy 4:1,2 - Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron

*A person cannot depart from the faith if they were never in the faith begin with

2 Timothy 2:12 - If we deny Him, He also will deny us
 
No, their spirit is reborn.
3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
10Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? 11Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.

 
I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God

2 Corinthians 5:17,18 - Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
 
Glad to hear it! 👍

When a person places their faith in Christ, their spirit is born, they receive the gift of everlasting life and the Holy Spirit. Ephesians warns the church to grieve not the Spirit of God whereby ye are sealed until the day of redemption.
That means that we still have a sin nature that also is within us, in our flesh.
I cannot agree with your last part.
2 Cor 5:17 says..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."
Your POV neglects this verse, as your POV retains some of that which has passed away.
God did not change the flesh along with that nature when we heard the gospel and believed. It's a daily choice, which is why believers are commanded throughout the old and new testaments to walk with God, confess their sins, crucify the flesh that wars against the spirit.
Who is running the store ?
Your skin and bones, or your new mind of Christ ?
My flesh was crucified with Christ, with its vile affections and lusts. (Gal 5:24)
They are gone !
Yes, and remission of sins comes when one changes their mind and decides that salvation is not through their good works of the flesh, but through the true Savior Jesus Christ
Past sins are remitted at baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins. (Acts 2:38, 22:16)
The gospel is explained in details throughout to let us know what that repentance (change of mind) is actually about.
If the repentance is from sin, we won't sin anymore.
The gospel I know, is that Jesus died for my sins and was raised from the dead, three days later.
What is your gospel ?
The problem is that few preachers ever care to do a word study on that term and teach that it is defined, "turn from sins.". It is not.
If the "turn from" is from sin, it is.
God repents many times. I presume He knew that people would wrongly teach that, so He never used that particular word in John's gospel, but He did use believe because the book is singled out as the one written for the following purpose. Chapter 20
To believe the good news that He suffered for our sins and died in atonement, was buried and arose the third day.
God wasn't "turning from" sin.
We are commanded to, in Acts 2:38.
27Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. 28And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. 30And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: 31But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
Yep...through His name...at baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins. (Acts 2:38)
 
I cannot agree with your last part.
2 Cor 5:17 says..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."
Your POV neglects this verse, as your POV retains some of that which has passed away.

Who is running the store ?
Your skin and bones, or your new mind of Christ ?
My flesh was crucified with Christ, with its vile affections and lusts. (Gal 5:24)
They are gone !

Past sins are remitted at baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins. (Acts 2:38, 22:16)

If the repentance is from sin, we won't sin anymore.
The gospel I know, is that Jesus died for my sins and was raised from the dead, three days later.
What is your gospel ?

If the "turn from" is from sin, it is.

God wasn't "turning from" sin.
We are commanded to, in Acts 2:38.

Yep...through His name...at baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins. (Acts 2:38)

It would do you some good to do a word study.

As to your perfection, 8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
 
It would do you some good to do a word study.

As to your perfection, 8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1 John 1:6, 8, and 10, address those walking in darkness...which Proverbs 4:19 says is "The way of the wicked".
Sinners, the wicked, cannot truthfuly say they have fellowship with God, that they have no sin, or that they have never sinned.
BUT, those walking in the light (God) can reply in the affirmative to all those scenarios.
 
1 John 1:6, 8, and 10, address those walking in darkness...which Proverbs 4:19 says is "The way of the wicked".
Sinners, the wicked, cannot truthfuly say they have fellowship with God, that they have no sin, or that they have never sinned.
BUT, those walking in the light (God) can reply in the affirmative to all those scenarios.


So you have not committed willful sin since you became a Christian. How about sins committed in ignorance?


🕊️