Shall we sin that grace may abound?

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The judiazers are trying to get Christians to turn away from the Lord Jesus and go under the OT law and fall from grace like the Galatians
Yeah many people try to add Moses words to Christs but they are different covenants . Many warnings about it but the same who insist upon it can’t seem to hear what the nt says about it

“Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the deeds of the law;

rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭NIV‬‬
 
Yeah many people try to add Moses words to Christs but they are different covenants . Many warnings about it but the same who insist upon it can’t seem to hear what the nt says about it

Primarily because when they go to their reformed churches they blindly believe whatever the guy up front says
The guy could pass around kool aid with poisen in it and they'd drink it if he told them to.
 
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Primarily because when they go to their reformed churches they blindly believe whatever the guy up front says
The guy could pass around kool aid with poisen in it and they'd drink it if he told them to.
What are you talking about? Reformed theology i dont follow, but most Reformed churches try to stick to the bible closely. Many are evangelical.
 
It is a 'change of mind, heart' about who Jesus is. Not a bunch of good works.
Amen! Repentance is a 'change of mind' towards God and the new direction of that change of mind is faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. Two sides to the same coin. Acts 20:21 - testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.

Good works are the fruit of repentance but not the definition of repentance. Matthew 3:8 - Therefore bear fruit in keeping with repentance. The NET translation reads - Therefore produce fruit that proves your repentance. Acts 26:20 - but kept declaring both to those of Damascus first, and also at Jerusalem and then throughout all the region of Judea, and even to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds appropriate to repentance. (fruit)
 
Primarily because when they go to their reformed churches they blindly believe whatever the guy up front says
The guy could pass around kool aid with poisen in it and they'd drink it if he told them to.
I’m not sure in general . I’ve met and encountered few people in relation to all of them certwinly not enough to determine that . but I do know the Bible told us beforhand tho to stick to his truth because there were fables coming

“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭4:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭2:1‬ ‭

“And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭2:2‬ ‭


In my view Christian’s should stick to the doctrine Jesus set forth and not try to learn other doctrines. But that’s just my own view
 
What are you talking about? Reformed theology i dont follow, but most Reformed churches try to stick to the bible closely. Many are evangelical.

You don't follow reformed theology and then turn right around and claim they "try to stick to the bible closely"

No, these people stick to the traditions taught by false teachers of old and do not follow the Lord or His Word.
 
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You don't follow reformed theology and then turn right around and claim they "try to stick to the bible closely"

No, these people stick to the traditions taught by false teachers of old and do not follow the Lord or His Word.
Some …..“do not follow the Lord or His Word.”

“But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.

And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also. Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again. And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them. And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same. And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again. But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: he is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.


But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:27-38, 46-49‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Doctrine like this that we find in the gospel is meant to change how we think about God and his Will

“Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.”
‭‭James‬ ‭1:21-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“if so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: that ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; and be renewed in the spirit of your mind; and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:21-24‬ ‭

“Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; and have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3:9-10, 12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

those things are thought throughout Jesus doctrine in the gospel it’s meant to change our minds to think like he taught us regarding God and his kingdom a new mind comes from hearing and believing the gospel a new perception of God the father and what he wills for us in Christ


“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.”
‭‭John‬ ‭7:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:37‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭1:22‬ ‭

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 
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Doctrine like this that we find in the gospel is meant to change how we think about God and his Will

Too bad they go around falsely claiming God only wants a few to be saved and surprise, they just happen to be reformed.
The reformed pick and choose portions of what God says in His Word and rejects the Lord's teachings that don't agree with their traditions which is a concept they learned from the catholics
 
I don’t know who’s the most “ numerous “ I know ehatnjesus and his apostles taught to believe about judgement though .

“Doing good is the right response to having been given eternal life.”

These verses ?

“But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed.



God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”

To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil:first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:5-11‬ ‭NIV‬‬


It seems like Paul is saying those who do good he will give eternal life those who reject the truth do evil he will give wrath and anger
“those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.
But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.”
It’s what they all taught because Jesus also did

““Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live,

and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:28-29‬ ‭NIV‬‬

It seems like if they meant a different things they would have said that other thing
Prov. 3:11,12 Heb 12 5:-11 says he disciplines his children, Sinless people do not get disciplined so... they are not his children if he doesn't correct them
 
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Too bad they go around falsely claiming God only wants a few to be saved and surprise, they just happen to be reformed.
The reformed pick and choose portions of what God says in His Word and rejects the Lord's teachings that don't agree with their traditions which is a concept they learned from the catholics
I agree calvinism full blown doesn't agree with alot of scriptures, but there are variations within it. I would probably get called a 2 point calvinist even though i say i'm non-calvinist.
 
Too bad they go around falsely claiming God only wants a few to be saved and surprise, they just happen to be reformed.
The reformed pick and choose portions of what God says in His Word and rejects the Lord's teachings that don't agree with their traditions which is a concept they learned from the catholics
Yeah to be honest the epistles really condemn arguing about this stuff between believers . Calls it a subversion of the hearers.

itsnhard because people have grown up on different religious sectors and denominations and so we all tend to have our biases and all those denominations and levels tend to have some right and some wrong .

One group insists the law of Moses , circumcision and performance is all there is to it . Another group insists anything you think you actually need to obey is a “ work of the law “ and isn’t related to being saved .

Another group insists once you believe and get baptized you are saved regardless of what you do after .


Another group insists baptism isn’t necassary and you can’t even make a choice anyways younhave no free Will and god just pre planned everything ……it sort of covers a lot of flawed beliefs but all of them have some good points on subjects and yet won’t accept the other parts they or rather ( we ) don’t already know and believe ……


I wonder sometimes what would actually happen if a large droop of believers would all begin focusing on what Jesus said about God , and mankind , about life in this world and the world to come . About what we should believe what we should also do and stop doing as well ect

If believers in Jesus would just listen closely to the words he spoke and then sent to us in the scriptures . What would happen to our beliefs ?

“All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Come unto me,
all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:27-30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

What would we believe if we really started hearing what he said ……
 
W
Yeah to be honest the epistles really condemn arguing about this stuff between believers . Calls it a subversion of the hearers.

itsnhard because people have grown up on different religious sectors and denominations and so we all tend to have our biases and all those denominations and levels tend to have some right and some wrong .

One group insists the law of Moses , circumcision and performance is all there is to it . Another group insists anything you think you actually need to obey is a “ work of the law “ and isn’t related to being saved .

Another group insists once you believe and get baptized you are saved regardless of what you do after .


Another group insists baptism isn’t necassary and you can’t even make a choice anyways younhave no free Will and god just pre planned everything ……it sort of covers a lot of flawed beliefs but all of them have some good points on subjects and yet won’t accept the other parts they or rather ( we ) don’t already know and believe ……


I wonder sometimes what would actually happen if a large droop of believers would all begin focusing on what Jesus said about God , and mankind , about life in this world and the world to come . About what we should believe what we should also do and stop doing as well ect

If believers in Jesus would just listen closely to the words he spoke and then sent to us in the scriptures . What would happen to our beliefs ?

“All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Come unto me,
all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:27-30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

What would we believe if we really started hearing what he said ……
We know what Jesus says:

John 6:54 KJV
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

And

John 6:47 KJV
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

Eternal or everlasting life is a current possession for one who believes on Jesus.

Not temporary, not conditions set on it, eternal. Right there in scripture. It's no mystery.
 
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Prov. 3:11,12 Heb 12 5:-11 says he disciplines his children, Sinless people do not get disciplined so... they are not his children if he doesn't correct them
Obedient folks need no disciplining.
Those reborn of God's seed cannot bring forth evil fruit.
 
W

We know what Jesus says:

John 6:54 KJV
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

And

John 6:47 KJV
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

Eternal or everlasting life is a current possession for one who believes on Jesus.

Not temporary, not conditions set on it, eternal. Right there in scripture. It's no mystery.
Well yes if there were no other scriptres or things Jesus said then that would conclude it . What do you do with all the things he said though that aren’t those ?

If this verse is true

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I’d this verse a lie ?

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:3‬ ‭

if we “ believe in Jesus “ why would the things he said apply ?

If he said this

“John 6:54 KJV
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

does it prove this wrong ?

““Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:28-29‬ ‭

The logic doesn’t make sense it’s better to look for what the scriptures are saying than try to base everything on a single verse one doesn’t disprove the other it’s all part of a message

“saved by grace through faith “!!! Is a true sort of quick summary of how we are saved but it doesn’t disprove verses teaching us about faith like for instance

“What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone. As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:14-17, 20-24, 26‬ ‭NIV‬‬

We shouldnt then look at this as an opposing argument

“For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:8‬ ‭NIV‬‬

sand also ot shoold change what thie tells us about grace and our actions

“For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age,”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭2:11-12‬ ‭NIV‬‬


It shouldn’t change what the apostles taught the Church regarding judgement. Like Jesus did in John 5 there

“Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance? But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”

To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:4-11‬ ‭NIV‬‬

single leave a lot out and they shouldn’t be considered as what erases or makes untrue the rest

it’s not at all unconditional it needs to be based on what he preached not just what single verses we can pluck out to ignore the rest of what he was saying


Notice though Jesus was always focused on believers focusing in on what he was preaching in the gospel rather than Old Testament religion or new age theologies or anything

He spoke about the need to believe in him , the need to repent and live as he was teaching in his sermons . If we believe in Jesus we should go to him and hear what he was saying the things that sound like this
“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭NIV‬‬

Are part of this same message if we do believe in him and trust him

what would a believer do hearing this ? V a person who didn’t believe it ?

““Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?

As for everyone who comes to me and hears my words and puts them into practice, I will show you what they are like. They are like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built.

But the one who hears my words and does not put them into practice is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. The moment the torrent struck that house, it collapsed and its destruction was complete.””
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:46-49‬ ‭NIV‬‬

it’s meant to reassure us while we follow after the lord not looking to the laws sinless perfection but to his teachings that teach us how to live in the world believing in him .
“so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:28‬ ‭NIV‬‬

I understand speaking in faith sayong “ im saved “ I really don’t understand rejecting many scriptures because of another plucked from the same books if we believe in Jesus we should definately learnt and accept what he was teaching and promising believers in him

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬


While I love John 3:16 I don’t try to only accept verses that seem to support it I think the others are meant to teach us to repent and follow him as well as the warnings we repeatedly read in the nt about judgement and our behavior


everyone has to decide what they are gonna believe though I’d suggest the things Jesus taught about his kingdom and salvation and eternal life and judgement ect but that’s just my own belief . But I’ve leavened usually one verse isn’t a good argument against or to exclude the others but reading sections seems to offer coherent points made by Jesus and his apostles


I’m certainly no one’s judge nor do I claim to be a wise man or prophet or anything so , just my own beliefs . You have your also and I respect that ….
 
Primarily because when they go to their reformed churches they blindly believe whatever the guy up front says
The guy could pass around kool aid with poisen in it and they'd drink it if he told them to.

My first thought was to this.. blood of Jesus.. don't receive, don't like what a awful thing to say. It was said here "Yeah to be honest the epistles really condemn arguing about this stuff between believers . Calls it a subversion of the hearers." Seems fell on deaf ears.

Lets make it real.. Reformed theology, do they believe in Jesus Christ, came in the flesh, died on the cross for the world's sin, was buried, rose the third day? Yes.. we may not agree on all that is taught but on thing is very very very clear... these are Gods kids and trust me saved or not.. He does not let us go around doing this. . So " We don't let any corrupt communication proceed out of our mouth, but only that which is good to the user edifier, and we show grace to the hearers."

Should have reworded it. I'm out of here
 
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the epistles really condemn arguing about this stuff between believers

Actually we are to correct false doctrine.

I wonder sometimes what would actually happen if a large droop of believers would all begin focusing on what Jesus said about God , and mankind , about life in this world and the world to come . About what we should believe what we should also do and stop doing as well ect

They would depart from organized religion which is based on traditions of men and being carnally minded

What would we believe if we really started hearing what he said ……

You haven't been hearing what the Lord said in His Word?