I didn't think Mark 16 had a long ending....It was deep though. Too deep for some.
Should Christians challenge supernatural claims.
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I didn't think Mark 16 had a long ending....It was deep though. Too deep for some.
Jesus did not "fan out" his disciples and followers and tell them to "relate what they saw". He send them out to perform the miracles, not talk about the miracles.(Luke 10) The Holy Spirit works in our heart through the message of the His Word.(Hebrews 4:12) He does not "woo" us with hearsay stories.
Very true, and a good observation. They did do miracles. But remember back when Jesus was traveling and doing miracles, what the common denominator was in all of them? It was the faith of those who were receiving them. "Do you believe I can do this?" yes, boom it was done. "You don't even have to be there" said the Centurion. And it's done. 'He doesn't have to know I touched Him' was the old woman's thought. And it was done. Before anyone received a miracle they had to believe Jesus could pull it off. And where did their belief come from? Hearing testimonies from others and believing it so.
You don't need proof to believe. You need belief to find truth.
The answer is, I see signs miracles and wonders because I believe.
I really feel sorry that you don't.
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Matthew 8:
5 When Jesus had entered Capernaum, a centurion came tohim, asking for help. 6“Lord,” he said, “my servant lies athome paralyzed, suffering terribly.” 7 Jesus said to him, “Shall I come and heal him?” 8 The centurion replied, “Lord, I do not deserve to haveyou come under my roof. But just say the word, and my servant will be healed. 9 For I myself am a man under authority, with soldiersunder me. I tell this one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and that one, ‘Come,’ and hecomes. I say to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.” 10 When Jesus heard this, he was amazed and said to thosefollowing him, “Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel withsuch great faith. 11 I say to you that many will come from the east and thewest, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob inthe kingdom of heaven. 12 But the subjects of the kingdomwill be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping andgnashing of teeth.” 13 Then Jesus said to the centurion,“Go! Let it be done just as you believed it would.” Andhis servant was healed at that moment.
*
Matthew 8
23 Then he got into the boat and his disciples followedhim. 24 Suddenly a furious storm came up on the lake, so thatthe waves swept over the boat. But Jesus was sleeping. 25 The disciples went and woke him, saying, “Lord, save us!We’re going to drown!” 26 He replied, “You oflittle faith, why are you so afraid?” Then he got up andrebuked the winds and the waves, and it was completely calm. 27 The men were amazed and asked, “What kind of man isthis? Even the winds and the waves obey him!”
*
Matthew 9
1 Jesus stepped into a boat, crossed over and came to hisown town. 2 Some men brought to him a paralyzed man, lying on a mat.When Jesus saw their faith, he said tothe man, “Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven.”
*
Matthew 9
20 Just then a woman who had been subject to bleeding fortwelve years came up behind him and touched the edge of his cloak. 21 She said to herself, “If I only touch his cloak, I willbe healed.” 22 Jesus turned and saw her. “Takeheart, daughter,” he said, “your faith has healed you.”And the woman was healed at that moment.
*
Matthew 9
27 As Jesus went on from there, two blind men followed him,calling out, “Have mercy on us, Son of David!” 28 When he had gone indoors, the blind men came to him, andhe asked them, “Do you believe that I am ableto do this?” “Yes, Lord,” they replied. 29 Then he touched their eyes and said, “Accordingto your faith let it be done to you”; 30 and their sight was restored.
*
Matthew 13
53 When Jesus had finished these parables, he moved on fromthere. 54 Coming to his hometown, he began teaching the people intheir synagogue, and they were amazed. “Where did this man get this wisdom andthese miraculous powers?” they asked. 55 “Isn’t this the carpenter’s son? Isn’t his mother’s nameMary, and arena’t his brothers James, Joseph, Simon and Judas? 56 Aren’t all his sisters with us? Where then did this manget all these things?” 57 And they took offense at him. ButJesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his own town andin his own home.” 58 And he didnot do many miracles there because of their lack of faith.
*
Matthew 14
25 Shortly before dawn Jesus went out to them, walking onthe lake. 26 When the disciples saw him walking on the lake, theywere terrified. “It’s a ghost,” they said, and cried out in fear. 27 But Jesus immediately said to them: “Takecourage! It is I. Don’t be afraid.” 28 “Lord, if it’s you,” Peter replied, “tell me to come toyou on the water.” 29 “Come,” he said. Then Peter gotdown out of the boat, walked on the water and came toward Jesus. 30 But when he saw the wind, he wasafraid and, beginning to sink, cried out, “Lord, save me!” 31 Immediately Jesus reached out his hand and caught him.“You of little faith,” he said, “why didyou doubt?”
*
Matthew 15
21 Leaving that place, Jesus withdrew to the region of Tyreand Sidon. 22 A Canaanite woman from thatvicinity came to him, crying out, “Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! Mydaughter is demon-possessed and suffering terribly.” 23 Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came tohim and urged him, “Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.” 24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep ofIsrael.” 25The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” shesaid. 26He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s breadand toss it to the dogs.” 27“Yes it is, Lord,” she said. “Eventhe dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.” 28 Then Jesus said to her, “Woman, you havegreat faith! Your request is granted.” And her daughter washealed at that moment.
*
Matthew 17
14 When they came to the crowd, a man approached Jesus andknelt before him. 15 “Lord, have mercy on my son,” hesaid. “He has seizures and is suffering greatly. He often falls into the fireor into the water. 16 I brought him to your disciples,but they could not heal him.” 17 “You unbelieving and perversegeneration,” Jesus replied, “how long shall I stay with you? How long shall Iput up with you? Bring the boy here to me.” 18 Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of the boy, andhe was healed at that moment. 19 Then the disciples came to Jesus in private and asked,“Why couldn’t we drive it out?” 20 He replied, “Because you have solittle faith. Truly I tell you, if youhave faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to thismountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move. Nothing will beimpossible for you.”
*
Matthew 21
18 Early in the morning, as Jesus was on his way back tothe city, he was hungry. 19 Seeing a fig tree by the road, hewent up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he said to it, “Mayyou never bear fruit again!” Immediately the tree withered. 20 When the disciples saw this, they were amazed. “How didthe fig tree wither so quickly?” they asked. 21 Jesus replied, “Truly I tell you, if youhave faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what wasdone to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, ‘Go, throwyourself into the sea,’ and it will be done. 22 If you believe, you willreceive whatever you ask for in prayer.”
*
Matthew 13:58 And he did not do many miracles there because of theirlack of faith.
*
And that's just Matthew. You could double that with Hebrews 11, and again out of all the other books.
So clearly, receiving divine gifts is based upon believing- nothing but,and not the other way around.
Matthew 8:
5 When Jesus had entered Capernaum, a centurion came tohim, asking for help. 6“Lord,” he said, “my servant lies athome paralyzed, suffering terribly.” 7 Jesus said to him, “Shall I come and heal him?” 8 The centurion replied, “Lord, I do not deserve to haveyou come under my roof. But just say the word, and my servant will be healed. 9 For I myself am a man under authority, with soldiersunder me. I tell this one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and that one, ‘Come,’ and hecomes. I say to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.” 10 When Jesus heard this, he was amazed and said to thosefollowing him, “Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel withsuch great faith. 11 I say to you that many will come from the east and thewest, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob inthe kingdom of heaven. 12 But the subjects of the kingdomwill be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping andgnashing of teeth.” 13 Then Jesus said to the centurion,“Go! Let it be done just as you believed it would.” Andhis servant was healed at that moment.
*
Matthew 8
23 Then he got into the boat and his disciples followedhim. 24 Suddenly a furious storm came up on the lake, so thatthe waves swept over the boat. But Jesus was sleeping. 25 The disciples went and woke him, saying, “Lord, save us!We’re going to drown!” 26 He replied, “You oflittle faith, why are you so afraid?” Then he got up andrebuked the winds and the waves, and it was completely calm. 27 The men were amazed and asked, “What kind of man isthis? Even the winds and the waves obey him!”
*
Matthew 9
1 Jesus stepped into a boat, crossed over and came to hisown town. 2 Some men brought to him a paralyzed man, lying on a mat.When Jesus saw their faith, he said tothe man, “Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven.”
*
Matthew 9
20 Just then a woman who had been subject to bleeding fortwelve years came up behind him and touched the edge of his cloak. 21 She said to herself, “If I only touch his cloak, I willbe healed.” 22 Jesus turned and saw her. “Takeheart, daughter,” he said, “your faith has healed you.”And the woman was healed at that moment.
*
Matthew 9
27 As Jesus went on from there, two blind men followed him,calling out, “Have mercy on us, Son of David!” 28 When he had gone indoors, the blind men came to him, andhe asked them, “Do you believe that I am ableto do this?” “Yes, Lord,” they replied. 29 Then he touched their eyes and said, “Accordingto your faith let it be done to you”; 30 and their sight was restored.
*
Matthew 13
53 When Jesus had finished these parables, he moved on fromthere. 54 Coming to his hometown, he began teaching the people intheir synagogue, and they were amazed. “Where did this man get this wisdom andthese miraculous powers?” they asked. 55 “Isn’t this the carpenter’s son? Isn’t his mother’s nameMary, and arena’t his brothers James, Joseph, Simon and Judas? 56 Aren’t all his sisters with us? Where then did this manget all these things?” 57 And they took offense at him. ButJesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his own town andin his own home.” 58 And he didnot do many miracles there because of their lack of faith.
*
Matthew 14
25 Shortly before dawn Jesus went out to them, walking onthe lake. 26 When the disciples saw him walking on the lake, theywere terrified. “It’s a ghost,” they said, and cried out in fear. 27 But Jesus immediately said to them: “Takecourage! It is I. Don’t be afraid.” 28 “Lord, if it’s you,” Peter replied, “tell me to come toyou on the water.” 29 “Come,” he said. Then Peter gotdown out of the boat, walked on the water and came toward Jesus. 30 But when he saw the wind, he wasafraid and, beginning to sink, cried out, “Lord, save me!” 31 Immediately Jesus reached out his hand and caught him.“You of little faith,” he said, “why didyou doubt?”
*
Matthew 15
21 Leaving that place, Jesus withdrew to the region of Tyreand Sidon. 22 A Canaanite woman from thatvicinity came to him, crying out, “Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! Mydaughter is demon-possessed and suffering terribly.” 23 Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came tohim and urged him, “Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.” 24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep ofIsrael.” 25The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” shesaid. 26He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s breadand toss it to the dogs.” 27“Yes it is, Lord,” she said. “Eventhe dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.” 28 Then Jesus said to her, “Woman, you havegreat faith! Your request is granted.” And her daughter washealed at that moment.
*
Matthew 17
14 When they came to the crowd, a man approached Jesus andknelt before him. 15 “Lord, have mercy on my son,” hesaid. “He has seizures and is suffering greatly. He often falls into the fireor into the water. 16 I brought him to your disciples,but they could not heal him.” 17 “You unbelieving and perversegeneration,” Jesus replied, “how long shall I stay with you? How long shall Iput up with you? Bring the boy here to me.” 18 Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of the boy, andhe was healed at that moment. 19 Then the disciples came to Jesus in private and asked,“Why couldn’t we drive it out?” 20 He replied, “Because you have solittle faith. Truly I tell you, if youhave faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to thismountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move. Nothing will beimpossible for you.”
*
Matthew 21
18 Early in the morning, as Jesus was on his way back tothe city, he was hungry. 19 Seeing a fig tree by the road, hewent up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he said to it, “Mayyou never bear fruit again!” Immediately the tree withered. 20 When the disciples saw this, they were amazed. “How didthe fig tree wither so quickly?” they asked. 21 Jesus replied, “Truly I tell you, if youhave faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what wasdone to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, ‘Go, throwyourself into the sea,’ and it will be done. 22 If you believe, you willreceive whatever you ask for in prayer.”
*
Matthew 13:58 And he did not do many miracles there because of theirlack of faith.
*
And that's just Matthew. You could double that with Hebrews 11, and again out of all the other books.
So clearly, receiving divine gifts is based upon believing- nothing but,and not the other way around.
Be sure to cross reference John 3:5 with John 4:10,14; 7:37-39.
....and your conclusion is?
Shouldn't it rather be that the supernatural challenges us? Where is our faith? We hear testimonies and scoff? Such little faith, wouldn't you say? Our faith should be ever growing, not finding reasons to disbelieve. Skepticism and doubt are a hindrance, dare I say naivety would be far more productive in our walk. This is after all a walk of faith.
Why place limits in our hearts and minds that could possibly rob others? No, let there be no limit, no ceiling, and no boundary. Anything is possible with God! All things are possible! Do you know who God is!? Come now, do not reason yourself into limiting what God can do through you with your limited mindset. No, all things are possible. God is sovereign.
Why place limits in our hearts and minds that could possibly rob others? No, let there be no limit, no ceiling, and no boundary. Anything is possible with God! All things are possible! Do you know who God is!? Come now, do not reason yourself into limiting what God can do through you with your limited mindset. No, all things are possible. God is sovereign.
Jesus said, "born of water and the Spirit" He did not say born of baptism and the Spirit. To automatically read baptism into this verse simply because it mentions "water" is unwarranted. Scripture interprets itself. Notice in John 7:38-39, "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of LIVING WATER. But this He spoke concerning the SPIRIT. If "water" is arbitrarily defined as baptism, then we could just as justifiably say, "Out of his heart will flow rivers of living baptism" in John 7:38. If this sounds ridiculous, it is no more so than the idea that water baptism is the source or the means of becoming born again.
In John 4:10, Jesus said, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, 'Give Me a drink,' you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water." In John 4:14, Jesus said, "but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life. *Jesus connects this living water here with everlasting life. *Living water is not water baptism. In 1 Corinthians 12:13, we also read - ..drink into one Spirit. Spiritual cleansing is not accomplished by plain, ordinary H20.
Oh please don't feel sorry for me. I'm so happy in Jesus I can hardly stand it.
2Ti 1:12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.
It's not that you believe but what you believe. I'll take Jesus over all else.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
No Ben you are as usual wrong.
It is the word of God that challenges us. Provokes us unto righteousness and keeps our focus on Christ our Savior.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Being a bondservant to righteousness is truth which sets me free, which in turn frees Him to work in me and thru me as well. In that which He is limitless to be and do towards His purposes and intentions. But I must place my mind in Christ, and obey His precepts in my relationship to Him for His will serves me; and by serving His will I serve myself; never the other way around, where my will serves His will outside of righteousness...This therefore is not limiting God, it is agreeing with what He wills to be His unlimited goals.
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LOl I find the response to Ben very interesting Without faith it is impossible to Please God . what is faith?
Heb 1:1 = [FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif] faith is supernatural . Because God has given faith to us . God is more than Natural HE is Supernatural well beyond the confines of human restrictions.
Rom 12: 3
: [/FONT]For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif] Dealt means to : Distribute, bestow , impart.
2cor 10:13 speaks of the measure
Eph 4:7 speaks of the measure
in all God is the one who is distributing.
No Ben , we should not be challenging the supernatural ; because God has already challenged us to move in the supernatural distribution of FAITH to where HE has Dealt to all .
You are not wrong Ben, just you have another application of the meaning of supernatural challenging . [/FONT]
In John we have three great kindred conceptions, entry into the kingdom of heaven, sonship of God and eternal life; and all are dependent on and are the products of perfect obedience to the will of God This is not us being perfect before the relationship begins, nor us perfect after regeneration. it is perfection yet obtained as he finishes His work in us perfectly, it is about being perfectly aligned with God in this relationship we call righteousness, so as to let the patience of God finish His work in us, yet coming to fruition.
It is just here that the idea of being reborn comes in. It is what links all these three conceptions together. It is quite clear that, as we are, and in our own strength, we are quite unable to render to God this perfect obedience; it is only when God's grace enters into us and takes possession of us and changes us that we can give to him the reverence and the devotion we ought to give. It is through Jesus Christ that we are reborn; it is when He enters into possession of our hearts and lives that the change comes.
When that happens we are born of water and the Spirit. There are two thoughts there. Water is the symbol of cleansing; when Jesus takes possession of our lives, when we love him with all our heart, the sins of the past are forgiven and forgotten. The Spirit is the symbol of power. When Jesus takes possession of our lives it is not only that the past is forgotten and forgiven; if that were all, we might well proceed to make the same mess of life all over again; but into life there enters a new power which enables us to be - what by ourselves we could never be and to do - what by ourselves we could never do. Water and the Spirit stand for "the cleansing and the strengthening power of Christ," which wipes out the past and gives victory in the future.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. A man by himself is flesh and his power is limited to what the flesh can do; and spiritually has no value to God's will; despite even being able to act out morality (in part) thru the flesh. By himself he cannot be other than defeated and frustrated; that we know only too well - right?!!
; it is the universal fact of human experience. But the very essence of the Spirit is power and life which are beyond human power and human life; and when the Spirit takes possession of us, the defeated life of human nature becomes the victorious life of God if we press on to take hold of that, for which Christ Jesus took hold of us.To be born again is to be changed in such a way that it can be described only as rebirth and re-creation. The change comes when we love Jesus and allow him into our hearts. Then we are forgiven for the past and armed by the Spirit for the future; then we can truly accept the will of God. And then we become citizens of the kingdom; then we become sons of God; then we enter into eternal life, which is the very life of God.
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This is off topic, and I apologize ahead of time if I start a rabbit trail, but I just want to share this. I have shared my testimony here and am always using it in my comments so many will know how I was reborn, but I know the day it happen, Sept. 29th 2013, I was at the end of my rope, I was done. I thought I was a Christian the last 5 years and thought I knew what that meant, but after my wreak and losing the use of my right arm, then 2 years of bad news after bad news I wasn't sure if I even wanted to believe in this "God stuff" anymore, if I ever did in the first place.
This all came to a head one day in my room alone and I hit my knees. I didn't cry out to God or Jesus asking for help, I thought I knew what that was and was already a Christian in my own head. But what happen was I just hit my knees broken and said "I can't take this anymore, I can't take this anymore, I can't take this anymore, I tried, but world you win. I QUIT!!!!"
The next day I woke up and went to work, it wasn't until about lunch I realized something, and this was the point I was addressing in your comment that I agree 1000% with, but I realized after 2 years of wanting to die and thinking about killing myself at least every 5 mins, I hadn't thought about killing myself all day and I felt better inside than I had in 2 years. I hadn't realized why at that point, but I did KNOW 2 things, 1. I knew it was because and from God, and 2. I KNEW Jesus was His son. Now that I think about it in retrospect, it is exactly what you were just saying "Anything done by the Holy Spirit will always confess that Jesus came in the Flesh", and I have found that to be absolute truth. I didn't think this comment would be so long, but I agree and praise God I could share.
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You're right on this one Dan Born of water simply refers to birth water. Your mother broke water and you popped out...Born of water
You quote Hebrews 11:1 yet you attest to not the things unseen but things seen. Faith comes from hearing the word of God. Faith is created in a mans heart by Gods grace and not the intent or volition of the man himself.LOl I find the response to Ben very interesting Without faith it is impossible to Please God . what is faith?
Heb 1:1 = Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
faith is supernatural . Because God has given faith to us . God is more than Natural HE is Supernatural well beyond the confines of human restrictions.
Rom 12: 3
: For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man themeasure of faith.
Dealt means to : Distribute, bestow , impart.
2cor 10:13 speaks of the measure
Eph 4:7 speaks of the measure
in all God is the one who is distributing.
No Ben , we should not be challenging the supernatural ; because God has already challenged us to move in the supernatural distribution of FAITH to where HE has Dealt to all .
You are not wrong Ben, just you have another application of the meaning of supernatural challenging .
Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
no I did not but i can see why you would think that lol.
Jesus is the Word I never saw HIM but I have faith HE is real and HE died and rose again. I did not see that happen but the Bible the word of God says it did happen BY faith God has given to me i am able to believe . to disagree just to be disagreeable is not a good thing
That is great and you did not require signs, miracles or wonders to believe. That is what I have been talking about. Now get out there and fulfill the great commission.no I did not but i can see why you would think that lol.
Jesus is the Word I never saw HIM but I have faith HE is real and HE died and rose again. I did not see that happen but the Bible the word of God says it did happen BY faith God has given to me i am able to believe . to disagree just to be disagreeable is not a good thing
For the cause of Christ
Roger