Should I lie?

[Dan58]

Her family naturally expects me to convert to Islam to be with her.

Is it acceptable to go through the process / rituals lying so that she does not loose her family. She still plans to tell them she converted but doesn't have the courage yet.

Thanks

Tell your fiancee to find the courage, I'd delay the marriage until she fesses-up. She may want to inform them of her conversion in a note, or be packing some heat if she delivers the news in person

And no, its not okay to pretend to convert. That would equate to mocking Islam and tick her family off even more. I highly doubt Christ would be too thrilled about it either.

"Whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven" (Matthew 10:33)

 

[Steve2008]

I'm not sharing all of this to say, It's okay to lie. I'm sharing this because you asked to "ignore morality".

Hi, I said that because morally I would not do it. But that doesn't mean it's not what God wants.

I am starting to wonder if this OP is linked with London2015 in trolling?

No.

I am a bit confused..I would say that the moment she became a christian, she knew she would lose her family if they are Islam. Yet, she wants to keep them..and it is not right that now she wants to put a wedge between you, and her family. Dangerous ground, I would not play with those matches! She needs to confess truth, not live in a lie that will surely be exposed someday!

The current plan is to disappear with me after getting to know them a bit, she is not asking or expecting me to go through any lying. The problem is that I had a realisation a couple of days ago in which I came to believe that God has been preparing me to go ahead with this lie. Because of the unusual nature of this task I came here to seek mostly negative feedback for me to reflect /pray on before deciding whether to proceed.

Thank you for all the responses. I will read and reread them, but only reaponded to those that seemed to need it.

Any more comments /bible verses relating to the OP are more than welcome.

Thanks

Steve

 

[james57]

Hi,

I'm looking for bible based opinions on if it's ok to lie here. Please ignore morality, the consequences of Islam, and the lying of my partner. Thanks.

I'm planning on marrying a Cristian who converted from Islam but didn't have the courage to tell her family.

Her family naturally expects me to convert to Islam to be with her.

Is it acceptable to go through the process / rituals lying so that she does not loose her family. She still plans to tell them she converted but doesn't have the courage yet.

Thanks

I know it is easy for we who are not involved in your extremely difficult situation to give the plainly correct responses as it were.

But if you pretend to be a muslim you are pretending to deny Christs death at Calvary. Is that something a person should pretend to do?

I hope your fiances parents are moderate muslims. I am sure you are aware that in some cases daughters have been killed for marrying a non muslim. And some have been killed for leaving the muslim faith to become christians. And some have had to start new lives far away from home under a new name.
I wish you all the best in your marriage to come.

 

[Magenta]

The current plan is to disappear with me after getting to know them a bit, she is not asking or expecting me to go through any lying.

Morally you would not do it and now you say she is not expecting you to be dishonest, but she wants you to meet her folks while perpetrating a falsehood on behalf of you both and then break their hearts by disappearing completely from their lives? This does not add up. Scripture: The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked.

 

[Willie-T]

I'm sorry, Willie. You're correct, of course. Denouncing Jesus would be very wrong.

But I wasn't addressing the op, I was suggesting that there are times when to expose the truth might be very dangerous for someone. Like when we are protecting one of God's people.

Well yeah... I do agree with that. But this guy seems to think being a Christian is akin to being either Republican or Democrat.

 

[MultilingualMessenger]

Hi, I said that because morally I would not do it. But that doesn't mean it's not what God wants.


No.



The current plan is to disappear with me after getting to know them a bit, she is not asking or expecting me to go through any lying. The problem is that I had a realisation a couple of days ago in which I came to believe that God has been preparing me to go ahead with this lie. Because of the unusual nature of this task I came here to seek mostly negative feedback for me to reflect /pray on before deciding whether to proceed.

Thank you for all the responses. I will read and reread them, but only reaponded to those that seemed to need it.

Any more comments /bible verses relating to the OP are more than welcome.

Thanks

Steve

No. God would not do that; it's against His word. He has commanded His people not to do as unbelievers do, several times in several ways.

Leviticus 18:3 - You must not do as they do in Egypt, where you used to live, and you must not do as they do n the land of Canaan, where I am bringing you. Do not follow their practices.

Romans 12:2 - Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.

Exodus 34:14 - Do not worship any other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.

You may think it's something you can just fake and it's okay, but you'd be lying about a pretty big thing: your devotion to God. That's not something to take lightly. After all, God didn't take it lightly; He put it in the Ten Commandments.

This is in God's word too:

1 Thessalonians 5:22 - Abstain from all appearance of evil.

So you should not even fake it.

(It's almost like He knew your question was coming )

 

[tenderhearted]

Hi, I said that because morally I would not do it. But that doesn't mean it's not what God wants.


No.



The current plan is to disappear with me after getting to know them a bit, she is not asking or expecting me to go through any lying. The problem is that I had a realisation a couple of days ago in which I came to believe that God has been preparing me to go ahead with this lie. Because of the unusual nature of this task I came here to seek mostly negative feedback for me to reflect /pray on before deciding whether to proceed.

Thank you for all the responses. I will read and reread them, but only reaponded to those that seemed to need it.

Any more comments /bible verses relating to the OP are more than welcome.

Thanks

Steve

God would never lead someone to sin. What you have been feeling these couple of days is your sinful flesh nature. The devil is deceitful, but God is truth. There is no sin in him. God would always command us to be truthful, no matter the consequence. I'm not sure you know the character of God. Read your bible. Another thing is that God is not a God of confusion. God doesn't change his mind about who He is and His word. People are the ones who try to twist the word to condone their sin.

 

[tenderhearted]

I would like to make another point. Your plan is to disappear with her after getting to know them a bit. The bible never encourages people to run away and hide. God encourages people to face their fears. Moses ran into the dessert out of fear. God told him to face his fear of pharaoh. He assured him that He would be with him. Elijah ran from Jezebel out of fear that she would kill him. Elijah doubted God's protection. Once again God tells him to stop running and assures him of his safety. Jonah ran away due to his disobedience. However, God got a hold of him and you know the story, if not read it.

God is not a runner. He wants us to face our fears which is why he says in the bible over and over again to "fear not for I am with you." Isaiah 41:10. He also says in Deuteronomy 31:6 "Be strong and courageous... He won't leave you or abandon you."

 

[PoetMary]

Hi,

I'm looking for bible based opinions on if it's ok to lie here. Please ignore morality, the consequences of Islam, and the lying of my partner. Thanks.

I'm planning on marrying a Cristian who converted from Islam but didn't have the courage to tell her family.

Her family naturally expects me to convert to Islam to be with her.

Is it acceptable to go through the process / rituals lying so that she does not loose her family. She still plans to tell them she converted but doesn't have the courage yet.

Thanks

How is it possible to give a bible-based answer and ignore morality? Lying violates #9 of the Ten Commandments. You might be able to provide a compelling backstory to rationalize the lie, but it's a no go. Additionally, this particular lie seems to me to be tantamount to denying Christ for your financee and you (if you go along with it).

I don't think it's wise to begin a marriage with a lie.

 

[Steve2008]

Well yeah... I do agree with that. But this guy seems to think being a Christian is akin to being either Republican or Democrat.

Willie-T, you have made 3 posts on this thread, none of which cited any scripture nor made any real attempt to answer the question. Your last, insulting my faith. Please do not make a 4th.

How is it possible to give a bible-based answer and ignore morality?

I consider morality as a man made thing. What man considers moral is not going to always align with God's wishes / instructions.



Again I would like to say thank you for all your posts. I will not go deeper into the specifics as first and foremost this is a question of lying (and now worshipping other Gods thanks to your feedback) everything else (no matter what your opinions) is a seperate issue, and not one I am addressing at this time.

Thanks

Steve

 

[james57]

I really am not seeking to point the finger but you asked for scripture. Islam denies Christ is THE only truly begotten son of God. Islam believes Jesus is A son of God, equal to fourteen other prophets, not greater than. These include Abraham, Ishmael, john the Baptist.
Do you not believe salvational belief for the christian is to accept Christ is the only true son of God? Can a christian pretend to accept Christ is only equal to and not greater than fourteen other prophets? Is that acceptable to God?
I could start quoting scripture here but wont.
All I am suggesting is, you consider these things, please.
If God wants you to marry the lady, he will give you the strength to stand on your christian beliefs as to who his son is/ the christian faith

 

[PeterJens]

Following the Lord is about putting truth and love above everything else.

Now if this family is unable to have an open conversation about faith, Jesus and Mohammed, then it is best to walk away from them. There is always a blunt choice, stay in the world of compromise, of saying it does not matter, or speaking up.

The power of Islam is this intimidation. The problem is you need to separate two issues, your fiances desire to follow the Lord and your relationship with her.

Your problem is the conviction she has of following the Lord may not be greater than her love to conform.

The biggest lie for you spiritually is submitting to Muhammed to gain a wife, saying to yourself it is just to stop conflict.
It is actual spiritual submission, and has spiritual consequences.

I have a friend whose son fell in love with a young muslim girl. She left the family and lived apart, but went back when illness and problems developed. She said she would return to this young man, but in fact her involvement with the people she knew was stronger.

Getting involved in this kind of situation is hard, and things are not often as they appear.

What you are describing is a test of putting God first or the world, it is that simple.

 

[posthuman]

Steve,

For it is said, "The two will become one flesh." "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh."

(Genesis 2:24, Matthew 19:5, Ephesians 5:31)
​

this is the biblical basis of marriage. everyone has some degree of apprehension about separating from their family in order to marry, i think - in your case, especially in your wife-to-be's, it's very pronounced.

i would think it's obviously deceptive to do what you and she are considering, and that later you may both regret having started off your life together with what is tantamount to "a lie" -- even though it is for the sake of her family ties, because marriage is for the sake of breaking those ties and forming a new union.

i would hope that whatever the religious belief of her family, that if they can see past the division there, they are honorable enough to recognize that honesty is better than deception, and respect and recognize her and your courage in your faith. if you cannot show that now, then later, when it becomes clear, they could look back at this deception you're thinking of carrying out, and point at the dishonesty as evidence against the Christian faith. but if you and your bride can be strong in the Lord and honor His name now, and always, they will have no just argument against you.

if you cling to the Lord's name, He will fight for you. but if you deny Him, who will take up your cause?

i know you and she both have a lot of anxiety over this, and i'm sure that after reading this thread, i won't be the only one praying for your situation. please keep in touch with us to let us know how the Lord works through this - and take courage; trust that He will honor you and her as you honor Him.

 

[Magenta]

I consider morality as a man made thing. What man considers moral is not going to always align with God's wishes / instructions.

Do you reject the ten commandments as having originated with God then? Do you reject that Jesus said all the law and the prophets were fulfilled by loving God above all, and your neighbour as yourself?

Again I would like to say thank you for all your posts.

You are welcome. Best of luck to you and your beloved, and God bless!

 

[GodIsSalvation]

When I first read this seemed to me as a trap to do their rituals and what not. No, never bow to their idol, that ugly rock of Mecca, real or pretend. Though you saying she wants to be Christian too indeed makes me want good for her in Jesus. Really I am wondering with you just planning on running off anyways, well, why even do the whole islam pageant to begin with? They're gonna notice when ya run off either way. Why not just run off with the girl far away and marry her Christianly instead? Perhaps sounds too romantic, grant mercy, I am single with no end in sight, but frankly if I try to empathize and had to have the girl no matter what anyone told me, I'd just flee with her, not do their rituals at all, and marry in the Christian fashion. May Jesus let you take root in safety somewhere far and nice. These affairs of the heart are hard ones, but I hope the best for you and her in Jesus. I'd still be wary of this your own words sound like her family, and maybe even she is trying to convert you.

 

[Utah]

The hell with her family. Elope and live as free Christians.

Philippians 4.4: Rejoice in the Lord, always!