Shroud of Turin—real or fake, and why?
- Thread starter ResidentAlien
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
The Shroud of Turin was examined again in 2018. The results published in the Journal of Forensic Science suggest the Shroud of Turin is almost certainly a fake. They state the BPA (bloodstains pattern analysis ) was a result of someone adopting several poses and some of the blood on the cloth fell off of someone standing above the shroud. This information contradicts the belief that Jesus was buried in the cloth lying down. They describe the different positions necessary to meet the BPA visible on the shroud as follows:
“The two short rivulets on the back of the left hand of the Shroud are only consistent with a standing subject with arms at a ca 45° angle. This angle is different from that necessary for the forearm stains, which require nearly vertical arms for a standing subject. The BPA of blood visible on the frontal side of the chest (the lance wound) shows that the Shroud represents the bleeding in a realistic manner for a standing position while the stains at the back—of a supposed postmortem bleeding from the same wound for a supine corpse—are totally unrealistic. Simulation of bleeding from the nail wounds contacting wood surfaces yielded unclear results.”
The latest investigation indicate that the Shroud of Turin was most likely one of the many fake religious relics made in Medieval Europe. Furthermore, the cloth’s authenticity has never even been officially declared by the Catholic Church, and it has only been described as a “mirror of the gospel”, and even a “distinguished relic” by Pope John Paul II. As The Independent mentioned following the 2018 discovery, “The official Church position is that the shroud is only an artistic representation of Christ and not a holy relic.”
Nevertheless, the church encourages devotion to it, and the cloth has been protected and venerated by the faithful for centuries. source
“The two short rivulets on the back of the left hand of the Shroud are only consistent with a standing subject with arms at a ca 45° angle. This angle is different from that necessary for the forearm stains, which require nearly vertical arms for a standing subject. The BPA of blood visible on the frontal side of the chest (the lance wound) shows that the Shroud represents the bleeding in a realistic manner for a standing position while the stains at the back—of a supposed postmortem bleeding from the same wound for a supine corpse—are totally unrealistic. Simulation of bleeding from the nail wounds contacting wood surfaces yielded unclear results.”
The latest investigation indicate that the Shroud of Turin was most likely one of the many fake religious relics made in Medieval Europe. Furthermore, the cloth’s authenticity has never even been officially declared by the Catholic Church, and it has only been described as a “mirror of the gospel”, and even a “distinguished relic” by Pope John Paul II. As The Independent mentioned following the 2018 discovery, “The official Church position is that the shroud is only an artistic representation of Christ and not a holy relic.”
Nevertheless, the church encourages devotion to it, and the cloth has been protected and venerated by the faithful for centuries. source
-
1
-
1
- Show all
Doesnt the "church" claim to have the spear that pierced the side of Jesus also?
As for fakes, they have bodies of dead saints they claim are incorruptible yet are covered in wax like figures in a wax museum. I watched a documentary on how the shroud was faked but it was years ago so I dont recall where I saw it. History or Discovery channel most likely. Before I cut the pay TV cord 6 years ago.
As for fakes, they have bodies of dead saints they claim are incorruptible yet are covered in wax like figures in a wax museum. I watched a documentary on how the shroud was faked but it was years ago so I dont recall where I saw it. History or Discovery channel most likely. Before I cut the pay TV cord 6 years ago.
-
1
- Show all
I have not heard that one 
I have heard tales of splinters of wood being available from the cross, and possibly also a nail.
I do not believe any of them are authentic More like means for money grubbing
I discovered this just now, also
Many churches possess fragmentary remains that are by tradition alleged to be those of the True Cross. While the bulk of Roman Catholic and Orthodox believers recognize them as genuine pieces of the cross of Christ, their authenticity is disputed by other Christians, mainly Protestants. In 2016 a fragment held by Waterford cathedral was tested by Oxford University radiocarbon experts and found to date from the 11th century, a period during which forged relics were common. source
Yeah, so forged relics are common? Not surprising
I have heard tales of splinters of wood being available from the cross, and possibly also a nail.
I do not believe any of them are authentic
More like means for money grubbing I discovered this just now, also
Many churches possess fragmentary remains that are by tradition alleged to be those of the True Cross. While the bulk of Roman Catholic and Orthodox believers recognize them as genuine pieces of the cross of Christ, their authenticity is disputed by other Christians, mainly Protestants. In 2016 a fragment held by Waterford cathedral was tested by Oxford University radiocarbon experts and found to date from the 11th century, a period during which forged relics were common. source
Yeah, so forged relics are common? Not surprising
-
1
- Show all
Hey.. wow I was just watching some videos and reading up on this again. One said on that shroud there are over 600 marks not counting the sides. What really stands out is.. who today could make something like that. To me this is so like Him.. giving man every opportunity to believe yet FAITH has to be there. Hard to grasp in this world anyone loves us so much would die for each and every one.
a mystery
I cant say one way or another, if is not the original shroud or burial cloth, it seems like its a pretty convincing image of a crucified man.
Like those Madame Tussaud waxworks. Maybe it was draped over a statue that was made? Cos it looks like a rubbing.
its weird how the shroud is one long rectangular piece, instead of being wrapped AROUND the body like proper burial clothes would be to hold the body together. It doesnt look like a prayer shawl the jews would have used either with the tallits (tassels) that some jews would have been buried in.
recall that when Lazarus came out of the grave, they had to unwrap him because his grave clothes were strips, it wasnt one big cloth that was over him like a bedsheet.
I cant say one way or another, if is not the original shroud or burial cloth, it seems like its a pretty convincing image of a crucified man.
Like those Madame Tussaud waxworks. Maybe it was draped over a statue that was made? Cos it looks like a rubbing.
its weird how the shroud is one long rectangular piece, instead of being wrapped AROUND the body like proper burial clothes would be to hold the body together. It doesnt look like a prayer shawl the jews would have used either with the tallits (tassels) that some jews would have been buried in.
recall that when Lazarus came out of the grave, they had to unwrap him because his grave clothes were strips, it wasnt one big cloth that was over him like a bedsheet.
John 19:40 also suggests the linen was wound around him. with spices..aloe and myrrh, of which there seems to be no trace of in the shroud of turin.
They would have totally drenched it in those spices and herbs...aloe heals skin and myrrh is anti fungal.
Another thing was that Jesus side was pierced with a spear, so, there might have been a corresponding image of his side wound but there doesnt seem to be any.
I know some people desperately want it to be Jesus but who was likely to even pick up his burial shroud anyway. None of the disciples is said to have touched them, they saw it lying there but its not like they picked up the linen and started telling everyone hey look theres no body! but theres an image of Jesus on it!
They would have totally drenched it in those spices and herbs...aloe heals skin and myrrh is anti fungal.
Another thing was that Jesus side was pierced with a spear, so, there might have been a corresponding image of his side wound but there doesnt seem to be any.
I know some people desperately want it to be Jesus but who was likely to even pick up his burial shroud anyway. None of the disciples is said to have touched them, they saw it lying there but its not like they picked up the linen and started telling everyone hey look theres no body! but theres an image of Jesus on it!
Yes, GOD IS a SPIRIT and those who worship HIM MUST worship HIM In Spirit and In Truth.
The dEvil wanted Mose's body to deceive the people.People want to believe In things they can perceive with one or more of their five senses.
John 20:27-30
King James Version
27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust [it] into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed [are] they that have not seen, and [yet] have believed.
The dEvil wanted Mose's body to deceive the people.People want to believe In things they can perceive with one or more of their five senses.
John 20:27-30
King James Version
27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust [it] into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed [are] they that have not seen, and [yet] have believed.
I honestly feel myself, that it's as simple as the scripture you just posted. Gods word in multiple places specifically says there was more than 1 piece. I do not believe the shroud to be "the" shroud. That said I would also like to add, what does it matter? We are not to put our faith in physical things. When we start building our faith on the temporal, physical things of this world we set ourselves up to have that faith destroyed if they turn out false later, even if it is real and you're merely convinced by a deception that it's false your faith is broken with the item in question.
This is why I ultimately say it shouldn't matter at all one way or the other, and although I believe what I believe I also think this is a very intriguing garment and the research around it is very interesting, and convincing really, I would just like to again throw in there that we can't put too much faith in a earthly thing, He made it that way on purpose and He is just awesome. Just how I see it anyway, but this is nothing worth getting in a heated debate with a brother or sister at all ever in my opinion.
This is why I ultimately say it shouldn't matter at all one way or the other, and although I believe what I believe I also think this is a very intriguing garment and the research around it is very interesting, and convincing really, I would just like to again throw in there that we can't put too much faith in a earthly thing, He made it that way on purpose and He is just awesome. Just how I see it anyway, but this is nothing worth getting in a heated debate with a brother or sister at all ever in my opinion.
-
1
- Show all
Sure, there are probably three or four "churches" who have it.
Here it is.
Seems it's more likely the shroud of Turin is a fake just considering the sheer probability. I mean, there can only be one genuine artifact, but any one, any time, any place can forge a copy. I don't know how the shroud of Turin was made, but that isn't a reason for it being real. How are we supposed to know if it's real or fake?
For those of you saying it doesn't matter, let me ask you something. Does truth matter to you?
If someone's out there peddling a lie don't you want to know? I'm not saying it's a lie, I'm just saying it's worth talking about and it's worth investigating. Those who say the Shroud of Turin holds a genuine depiction of Jesus of Nazareth make a very extraordinary claim. If it's true it should hold up to scrutiny.
I can accept the truth one way or another; but what I can't understand are those who say truth doesn't matter.
If someone's out there peddling a lie don't you want to know? I'm not saying it's a lie, I'm just saying it's worth talking about and it's worth investigating. Those who say the Shroud of Turin holds a genuine depiction of Jesus of Nazareth make a very extraordinary claim. If it's true it should hold up to scrutiny.
I can accept the truth one way or another; but what I can't understand are those who say truth doesn't matter.
since it was radiocarboned dated back to the middle ages then we know it wasnt the original cloth.
Plus how would it have got to TURIN anyway. People just stole things from the gravesite? I know musuems kinda just take stuff though to out on show, like mummies. But they also make plaster casts of fossils, and fossils are basically natural casts of things.
Fossils dont actually need to take 'millions of years' to form. You can make fossils now.
Plus how would it have got to TURIN anyway. People just stole things from the gravesite? I know musuems kinda just take stuff though to out on show, like mummies. But they also make plaster casts of fossils, and fossils are basically natural casts of things.
Fossils dont actually need to take 'millions of years' to form. You can make fossils now.