Sin and the Believer

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Gideon300

Ancient Mariner
Mar 18, 2021
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Some believers seem to think that a real Christian should never sin. This idea is taken from 1 John 5:18 and 1 John 3:9. This concept also does not take into account other verses that indicate that Christians can and do sin.

It helps to remember that the New Testament epistles written to believers. The apostles exhorted believers to avoid sin and life righteously. Now if Christians do not sin, then such exhortations are entirely unnecessary.

There are many reasons why Christians struggle to overcome sin. The fact that they even care about their sin is evidence of the new birth. Instead of heaping unreasonable demands on them, we should be showing them how sin can be overcome.
 
The key is to transition from living for self (the flesh) to walking by the Spirit (selfless, Christ-like love).
 
Some believers seem to think that a real Christian should never sin. This idea is taken from 1 John 5:18 and 1 John 3:9. This concept also does not take into account other verses that indicate that Christians can and do sin.

It helps to remember that the New Testament epistles written to believers. The apostles exhorted believers to avoid sin and life righteously. Now if Christians do not sin, then such exhortations are entirely unnecessary.

There are many reasons why Christians struggle to overcome sin. The fact that they even care about their sin is evidence of the new birth. Instead of heaping unreasonable demands on them, we should be showing them how sin can be overcome.

In the risen Son it is done for anyone to see new and walk new and not take any credit to self in doing it, in the risen Son for them. Which is love to all, not a few, ALL!, fro me at least I see this once Daddy revealed this to me. Amazing, Thank you Fathe, Psalm 100:4, 103:12 being given the new as in Ezekiel 36:26 Thanks Gideon 300, thanks for being willing too
 
The creator of the universe came as a human and overcame all things He asks of us. Then he died the most horrible death so that we don’t have to remain in the bandage of sin. It is not an unreasonable request.

Romans 12:1

I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
 
The creator of the universe came as a human and overcame all things He asks of us. Then he died the most horrible death so that we don’t have to remain in the bandage of sin. It is not an unreasonable request.

Romans 12:1

I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

therefore I need God's lead through me, since I am not perfect, nor can be thank you Father and Son as Won (One) for me too, thank you
 
Some believers seem to think that a real Christian should never sin. This idea is taken from 1 John 5:18 and 1 John 3:9. This concept also does not take into account other verses that indicate that Christians can and do sin.

It helps to remember that the New Testament epistles written to believers. The apostles exhorted believers to avoid sin and life righteously. Now if Christians do not sin, then such exhortations are entirely unnecessary.

There are many reasons why Christians struggle to overcome sin. The fact that they even care about their sin is evidence of the new birth. Instead of heaping unreasonable demands on them, we should be showing them how sin can be overcome.

True, and teachings (aka "didache") regarding overcoming sins build on the Gospel (aka "kerygma") of being credited with Christ's righteousness. The didache may be very important and requisite for becoming spiritually mature, but it is not most important or necessary to know/believe in order to be saved. The distinction between kerygma/saving faith and didache/working faith was made by Jesus when He commissioned His original twelve disciples minus Judas (MT 28:19-20). This “Great Commission” speaks of both types of information. The kerygma is indicated by verse 19, in which Jesus says, “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations”.

A Christian disciple is a learner or one who believes the good news about God’s offer of eternal life to all who accept Jesus as Christ, the Lord incarnate. The didache is implicit in verse 20, in which Jesus continues by saying “teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.” This speaks of the information a disciple needs to know and believe after conversion in order to grow in Christ-likeness regarding how to live the law of love. It is the “all truth” that is taught by the Spirit referred to in John 16:13. Again, it is very important but not necessary for salvation. Witness the thief on the cross in Luke 23:39-43, who had no opportunity to learn the didache after his conversion; although, like Paul (according to Acts 22:3) and most adults, some didachaic truth is learned prior to knowing the kerygma.

The distinction between kerygma and didache can be seen also in 2 Timothy 3:15-17. The scriptures “which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus” refers to the Gospel or kerygma. The scriptural teaching that is useful for “training in righteousness, so that the man [or woman per Gal. 3:28] of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work” refers to the didache. The apostle Paul also employs the difference between kerygma and didache in 1 Corinthians 3:10-15. The “foundation… which is Jesus Christ” is the kerygmatic teaching regarding salvation. Paul alludes to the didache when he says that one should be careful how he/she builds upon this foundation.

The distinction between kerygma and didache involves a difference in content and purpose. The kerygma proclaims GRFS, which calls for repentance and acceptance of Jesus as Lord, which is an all or nothing decision that occurs at one moment in time. The didache teaches God’s will regarding how saints or those who have been saved should live in order to be a good witness for Christ, which involves learning more of God’s Word throughout one’s lifetime. A passage teaching this truth is Colossians 2:6-7: “Just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord [kerygma], continue to live in him, rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught [didache].”

There is no qualitative difference between faith that accepts God’s saving grace at conversion and faith that accepts God’s working grace or motivates good works while walking/living (Eph. 2:8-10, 2Cor. 5:7), but only a quantitative difference as each additional moment passes–and of course faith remains non-meritorious during the saint’s entire lifetime (Rom. 1:17). IOW, the ability to do good works as well as have saving faith are both due to God’s grace.
 
True, and teachings (aka "didache") regarding overcoming sins build on the Gospel (aka "kerygma") of being credited with Christ's righteousness. The didache may be very important and requisite for becoming spiritually mature, but it is not most important or necessary to know/believe in order to be saved. The distinction between kerygma/saving faith and didache/working faith was made by Jesus when He commissioned His original twelve disciples minus Judas (MT 28:19-20). This “Great Commission” speaks of both types of information. The kerygma is indicated by verse 19, in which Jesus says, “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations”.

A Christian disciple is a learner or one who believes the good news about God’s offer of eternal life to all who accept Jesus as Christ, the Lord incarnate. The didache is implicit in verse 20, in which Jesus continues by saying “teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.” This speaks of the information a disciple needs to know and believe after conversion in order to grow in Christ-likeness regarding how to live the law of love. It is the “all truth” that is taught by the Spirit referred to in John 16:13. Again, it is very important but not necessary for salvation. Witness the thief on the cross in Luke 23:39-43, who had no opportunity to learn the didache after his conversion; although, like Paul (according to Acts 22:3) and most adults, some didachaic truth is learned prior to knowing the kerygma.

The distinction between kerygma and didache can be seen also in 2 Timothy 3:15-17. The scriptures “which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus” refers to the Gospel or kerygma. The scriptural teaching that is useful for “training in righteousness, so that the man [or woman per Gal. 3:28] of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work” refers to the didache. The apostle Paul also employs the difference between kerygma and didache in 1 Corinthians 3:10-15. The “foundation… which is Jesus Christ” is the kerygmatic teaching regarding salvation. Paul alludes to the didache when he says that one should be careful how he/she builds upon this foundation.

The distinction between kerygma and didache involves a difference in content and purpose. The kerygma proclaims GRFS, which calls for repentance and acceptance of Jesus as Lord, which is an all or nothing decision that occurs at one moment in time. The didache teaches God’s will regarding how saints or those who have been saved should live in order to be a good witness for Christ, which involves learning more of God’s Word throughout one’s lifetime. A passage teaching this truth is Colossians 2:6-7: “Just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord [kerygma], continue to live in him, rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught [didache].”

There is no qualitative difference between faith that accepts God’s saving grace at conversion and faith that accepts God’s working grace or motivates good works while walking/living (Eph. 2:8-10, 2Cor. 5:7), but only a quantitative difference as each additional moment passes–and of course faith remains non-meritorious during the saint’s entire lifetime (Rom. 1:17). IOW, the ability to do good works as well as have saving faith are both due to God’s grace.
Thank you for your dissertation. Hopefully it will shine a light for those who are still confused. Some here are teachable; some are not.
 
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Thank you for your dissertation. Hopefully it will shine a light for those who are still confused. Some here are teachable; some are not.

It begins with Ephesians 1:13, Col 1:21-22, to see by God Eph 1:6-7 we are accepted, forgiven and loved, sealed by God to see it over a lifetime of learning from God, not self or others, Yet share in care to all for each to turn to God Father personally and learn new in love and mercy to all too. The same as Son did for us all first, without accusations to anyone, wow, woe is me. He never fought back in of flesh and blood. I know he could have gotten off that cross and said to them killing him, "Enough" yet he didn't. Then risen and they all saw him as risen, Col 2 floors me, floored them as well. And he still did not kill them, love t them happening g still did that.
I am on the Highway to Hell, according to religion. I am free, to do right and not discusss or get in doubt anymore, over others in doubt. that act as if they got it and do not. I did in past do that when in religion back then
I can run that stop sign, yet I do not why? Because of the Love of God bestowed upon me, thank you Father and Son as Won
 
Some believers seem to think that a real Christian should never sin.

Surely your position isn't that which thinks it's normal for Christians to do sinful things?

It is?




The key is to transition from living for self (the flesh) to walking by the Spirit (selfless, Christ-like love).

Meaning we should stop engaging in sinful behavior.

Galatians 5:16 - This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Hopefully everyone got this memo from the Lord
 
Surely your position isn't that which thinks it's normal for Christians to do sinful things?

It is?






Meaning we should stop engaging in sinful behavior.

Galatians 5:16 - This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Hopefully everyone got this memo from the Lord
Surely your position isn't that which thinks it's normal for Christians to do sinful things?

It is?






Meaning we should stop engaging in sinful behavior.

Galatians 5:16 - This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Hopefully everyone got this memo from the Lord

Well, you can keep knocking on them, the thing with antinomian is that they're licensed to sin and pay in hell
 
Well, you can keep knocking on them, the thing with antinomian is that they're licensed to sin and pay in hell

Sad but true. Sometimes it's fun to talk hypotheticals with these people just to see them claim that you can live in sin and still be saved.

The hope is that they will see how ridiculous their beliefs are.

As an example, I heard a video once of Charles Stanley telling a mother that he son who had been born again but turned away to be come a homosexual was still saved and was going to heaven.

I did not believe the claim until I watched the video for myself and sure enough Charles Stanley did say you could be a homosexual and still be saved! He was obviously ignorant of what the Lord teaches in His Word.
 
Sad but true. Sometimes it's fun to talk hypotheticals with these people just to see them claim that you can live in sin and still be saved.

The hope is that they will see how ridiculous their beliefs are.

As an example, I heard a video once of Charles Stanley telling a mother that he son who had been born again but turned away to be come a homosexual was still saved and was going to heaven.

I did not believe the claim until I watched the video for myself and sure enough Charles Stanley did say you could be a homosexual and still be saved! He was obviously ignorant of what the Lord teaches in His Word.

I've heard of him over YouTube before, but I haven't watched any of his sermon. Did he says a practising homosexual or a repented homosexual can go to heaven?
 
Surely your position isn't that which thinks it's normal for Christians to do sinful things?

It is?
There are two false positions being bandied around on the forum. One is that anyone who calls himself a Christian must never sin or else they are not saved. Those who hold to that position falsely accuse those who oppose them of condoning sin.

Sin is not normal. I've said that many times. But to claim that Christians never sin is contrary to God's word. That's what you get when believers take verses in isolation to form a false doctrine.

I'll use an example.
"He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him." John 1:11. So some say that Jews universally rejected Jesus. However, we read John 1:12 which gives a different perspective:
"But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God........."

Since the disciples, not only the 12, were Jews, not all of His own rejected Jesus.

I've noticed this in other passages of the NT. Paul stated that he had not baptised people. Then he qualified that by saying that he had baptised a few people. So a generalisation to make a point then a clarification.

How many times do I have to say this? If someone loves to sin and is unwilling to forsake it, I doubt that they are saved in the first place. Anyone who says that they never sin is a liar, self deceived and the truth is not in them. I did not make that up. 1 John 1:8 & 10
 

God simply just loves us all y'all
Jesus went willingly to that cross to die physically taking our deserved place of death for everyone. Did not give saved to anyone, Only state new life is in his risen Life, actually Father did that on Pentecost, speaking through the Discipoles that were willing. So many times I have read over what I heard to write, and went what, that not me, Lord
God dincerely loves us all, that be the call to see Jeremiah 29:11 is for us all to choose God also. Trust God no matter what troubles happen to you or even has happened, includes what mn=might happen
Been stolen, from have stole myself, been lied to, have done that myself. Committed Adultery, even in thought, Have had that done to me also. So, am I anywhere good enough to berate, accuse, or, abuse or excuse anyone?
Romans 2:1-4
Who is able to get one, anyone to stand? Is there only one or am I able, you able others able?
Romans 14:1-4
Thank you Father I need you to lead and speak your words though me, not mine, anyone else?
Luke 21:15-15
 
God simply just loves us all y'all
Jesus went willingly to that cross to die physically taking our deserved place of death for everyone. Did not give saved to anyone, Only state new life is in his risen Life, actually Father did that on Pentecost, speaking through the Discipoles that were willing. So many times I have read over what I heard to write, and went what, that not me, Lord
God dincerely loves us all, that be the call to see Jeremiah 29:11 is for us all to choose God also. Trust God no matter what troubles happen to you or even has happened, includes what mn=might happen
Been stolen, from have stole myself, been lied to, have done that myself. Committed Adultery, even in thought, Have had that done to me also. So, am I anywhere good enough to berate, accuse, or, abuse or excuse anyone?
Romans 2:1-4
Who is able to get one, anyone to stand? Is there only one or am I able, you able others able?
Romans 14:1-4
Thank you Father I need you to lead and speak your words though me, not mine, anyone else?
Luke 21:15-15

What're you saying?
 
God simply just loves us all y'all

But He does not allow darkness to come in to His Kingdom

Those that continue in their sin won't go to Heaven.



What're you saying?

He's all over the place and doesn't make much sense.


But to claim that Christians never sin is contrary to God's word.

And yet God's Word clearly tells us that His grace does not cover willful sin

Christians should not continue in sin so that grace may increase because those who are dead to sin cannot live in it any longer (Romans 6:1-2). This passage teaches that grace should not be used as a reason to sin.

Romans 6:1,2
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?


How many times do I have to say this? If someone loves to sin and is unwilling to forsake it, I doubt that they are saved in the first place.

Doesn't mean they were never saved.

Lots of people got saved and then later they fell away loving the pleasure of the flesh and of this life more than walking with the Lord having allowed themselves to be deceived in to turning away from the Lord.
 
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But He does not allow darkness to come in to His Kingdom

Those that continue in their sin won't go to Heaven.





He's all over the place and doesn't make much sense.




And yet God's Word clearly tells us that His grace does not cover willful sin

Christians should not continue in sin so that grace may increase because those who are dead to sin cannot live in it any longer (Romans 6:1-2). This passage teaches that grace should not be used as a reason to sin.

Romans 6:1,2
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?




Doesn't mean they were never saved.

Lots of people got saved and then later they fell away loving the pleasure of the flesh and of this life more than walking with the Lord having allowed themselves to be deceived in to turning away from the Lord.
 
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What're you saying?

New life, born new, again is in the risen Son, not the dead one
The death had to happen first, to take care of all sin first. John 1:29
We all are by that death of Son doing that willingly forgiven, reconciled in that shed blood forever, everyone. done for all Hebrews 10:10. John 19:30
2 Cor 5:16-20. Note verse 16, we once knew him (God Christ) Son in the flesh. Today no more.
Only in spirit and truth of Father now. John 4:23-24
Flesh dead, born as if alive, first birth, to try to be God, and not one flesh could ever do it but Son, who was born of a virgin, the Virgin Mary from the tribe of Judah. to save us all, once anyone e between God and them personally, beleive God over everything else seen physically. What we see is temporal, what we do not see is forever, like the air man breathes thanks
 
But He does not allow darkness to come in to His Kingdom

Those that continue in their sin won't go to Heaven.





He's all over the place and doesn't make much sense.




And yet God's Word clearly tells us that His grace does not cover willful sin

Christians should not continue in sin so that grace may increase because those who are dead to sin cannot live in it any longer (Romans 6:1-2). This passage teaches that grace should not be used as a reason to sin.

Romans 6:1,2
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?




Doesn't mean they were never saved.

Lots of people got saved and then later they fell away loving the pleasure of the flesh and of this life more than walking with the Lord having allowed themselves to be deceived in to turning away from the Lord.
What part of eternal life is not eternal? How can the born again be unborn again? People can lose the rewards of salvation and they may miss out on blessing in this life. But God puts into Christ. We die and our lives are hidden in Christ with God.

Your concept of salvation is shallow. You make it dependent on behaviour. Not at all. It is by grace that we are saved, not of works. That applies from the day we are born again until the day we die.