Sin and the Believer
- Thread starter Gideon300
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I see from God Father in risen Son, I am forgiven by God Father through Son. I see Matthew 18:24-35 to forgive everyone since by God I am forgiven now in Son. Thanks for your views and your righteousness you use, love and mercy to all,
Yes, Yes, Yes
There are serious problems with bringing up a matter there so much disagreement about. For instance, what do you mean by “homosexual”? Can someone decide that they will become a homosexual? Who woke up on day and decided to be a heterosexual, making that choice?
The word and concept of homosexual never existed until the late 19th century, so how can it be read back into a 1st century document?
The first English translation of the Bible to use the word “homosexual” was the RSV 1st Edition in 1946 and that word was removed in the 2nd Edition as not an accurate translation. The 2021 NRSV Updated Edition even goes so far as to footnote 1 Cor. 6:9 & 1 Tim. 1:10 on this word, “Meaning of Gk uncertain”.
Does no one understand the difference between a homosexual and a sodomite? For an example from the KJV:
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, (1Cor 6:9, KJV)
1828 Webster’s Dictionary
ABU'SER, n. s as z. One who abuses, in speech or behavior; one that deceives; a ravisher; a sodomite. 1 Cor 6.
That is a “sodomite”, and it does not describe any homosexual that I’ve ever known about.
There is that other occurrence of the Greek word in Paul’s letters:
For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; (1Tim 1:10, KJV)
The 1828 Dictionary again:
DEFILE, v.t. 5. To corrupt chastity; to debauch; to violate; to tarnish the purity of character by lewdness. Schechem defiled Dinah. Gen 34.
Again, that does not describe any homosexual nor fit the modern meaning of the word. Certainly, a homosexual can be a sodomite as well as a heterosexual can be a sodomite, but that is not the question of what it means to be a homosexual. The medical and psychological fields do not restrict homosexuality to only sex orientation and acts, it includes the emotional and romantic side of life as well.
Christians, when insisting upon Christian purity, remember the Pharisees that Jesus rebuked in Matthew 23. That is what most of the evangelical church sounds like talking about homosexuals.
I see my carnalness, I see my wanting and desire to be in charge, which is of the first born flesh for anyone to see, believe God in the done work for us to be new in God's Spirit and Truth and love all. Which is not easy, and any counter marks made by myself and others causes wars and runore=s of wars. There is a time to fight and a time not to. Reading Ecclesiastes has much to say there, and people will see truth there over error here in this world still
This is a gift, if not, then it is of flesh works that does not work out well for there soul. Then it is not a gift. There is no work in any gift, a gift is a gift, inspite of me. All I can now see is my new ability to only love all as I am loved first by God through Son, John 19:30 1:29
We, I love, because God loved us first, which in truth happened day one in the fall of Adam the first. God did not kill Adam or Eve, amazing!
Blow me down, how can one, anyone that sees this truth accuse, abuse or excuse, anyone else? I am learning new in the truth of God'ds Spirit and Truth, the Comforter, the Holy Spirit given to see and be new in love and mercy willingly. Not a have to or else flesh nature attitude dead to first birth alive in seconbirth, by God for us, not of self trying to do it even thinking one is doing it 1 Cor 13:1-3
The word in that verse means men who lay in bed together, so it's not hard to get an idea what it means
G733 ἀρσενοκοίτης arsenokoites (ar-se-no-koi'-tees) n.
a male homosexual, sodomite.
[from G730 and G2845]
G730 ἄρῥην arrhen (ar'-rheen) n.
ἄρσην arsen (ar'-seen)
male (as stronger for lifting).
G2845 κοίτη koite (koi'-tee) n.
1. a couch.
2. (by extension) cohabitation.
3. (figuratively) marriage bed, sexual intercourse
You must not lie with a man as with a woman; that is an abomination. Leviticus 18:22. Seems pretty straightforward to me.
You are obviously wrong about the concept of homosexuality being recent.
Romans 1: 26 & 27
"For this reason God gave them over to dishonorable passions. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. Likewise, the men abandoned natural relations with women and burned with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men and received in themselves the due penalty for their error."
Sin is sin. 1 Corinthians 6:9
"Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who submit to or perform homosexual acts..........
Homosexuality was normal in Greek culture. It was common for older men to mentor adolescent males. In return, the teenager had a sexual relationship with his mentor.
Homosexuality is sin, but no worse than adultery or fornication. Temptation is not sin. Giving into temptation is sin. Homosexuality is not the unforgivable sin. However, a homosexual lifestyle disqualifies an individual from entering the kingdom of God. So does a life of fornication or adultery.
You are obviously wrong about the concept of homosexuality being recent.
Romans 1: 26 & 27
"For this reason God gave them over to dishonorable passions. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. Likewise, the men abandoned natural relations with women and burned with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men and received in themselves the due penalty for their error."
Sin is sin. 1 Corinthians 6:9
"Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who submit to or perform homosexual acts..........
Homosexuality was normal in Greek culture. It was common for older men to mentor adolescent males. In return, the teenager had a sexual relationship with his mentor.
Homosexuality is sin, but no worse than adultery or fornication. Temptation is not sin. Giving into temptation is sin. Homosexuality is not the unforgivable sin. However, a homosexual lifestyle disqualifies an individual from entering the kingdom of God. So does a life of fornication or adultery.
We are not saved by our own works, we are saved to do good works which God has put before us. Everything Jesus taught was works based. While he was alive he sent over 70 disciples to do the works he had done, ahead of him. They testified that even the devils were in subjection to them. Did they achieve this through continued works of sin through grace?
Everyone wonders why the Christian’s are powerless and they excuse it by saying healing and miracles are done away with. Good works, healing and miracles are not the reward of living in sin.
Everyone wonders why the Christian’s are powerless and they excuse it by saying healing and miracles are done away with. Good works, healing and miracles are not the reward of living in sin.
i hope all Christians think Christians should never sin. why? because we're not suppose to. just like lying & gossiping, i hope no one does that ever. don't you? will we sin? yes. why? because we all were born with a sin nature & the time hasn't arrived for that to be removed. the difference is a Christian won't want to sin when he out she yhinks of sinning but still will once in a while. but its never habitual willful sin. meaning its not going to be an everyday common place activity.
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. (Lev 18:22, KJV)
Yes, that may seem straightforward to you, IF you ignore the last verse of the book of Leviticus:
These are the commandments, which the LORD commanded Moses for the children of Israel in mount Sinai. (Lev 27:34, KJV)
Even for the Israelites, the OT prohibitions are about the male cult prostitution such as in Deut. 23:17-18.
As to Romans 1:26, nothing at all is said about women having sex with women! The only reason people read lesbianism into that verse is because it is the only verse in the entire Bible that would refer to women having sex with women. In v27, that is clearly talking about those males who are "leaving" KJV, or "gave up" RSV sexual relations with females, OBVIOUSLY talking about men leaving wives because they were "consumed with passion", RSV, or "flamed out" in the Emphasized Bible.
To read into 1 Cor. 6:9 the word "homosexual", and believe your translations; you must know why you pick a translation that so totally abandoned the English translators from the 1611 KJV, through the ER, the ASV, the YLT, Alfred Marshall's Greek-English Interlinear of 1958, as well as the RSV 2nd Ed., NRSV, NRSVue, REB. It takes some pretty tough doing to read into a verse a word and concept not used in English until 1900.
I know about the sexual condemnation Paul was speaking about in Rom. 1:27, because a Greek poet in Paul's day wrote about in the very same language as Paul, but in much larger context. It is NOT about simple sex between two males.
From the Greek philosopher Dio Chrysostom (40-110 AD) in The Seventh or Euboean Discourse
Phrasing lifted from text numbered 133 through 152
"In dealing with brothel-keepers and their trade we must certainly betray no weakness as though something were to be said on both sides, but must sternly forbid them...Such men bring individuals together in union without love and intercourse without affection, and all for the sake of filthy lucre...For evils are never wont to remain as they are; they are ever active and advancing to greater wantonness if they meet no compelling check...Indeed, beginning with practices and habits that seem trivial and allowable, it acquires a strength and force that are uncontrollable, and no longer stops at anything...Now at this point we must assuredly remember that this adultery committed with outcasts, so evident in our midst and becoming so brazen and unchecked, is to a very great extent paving the way to hidden and secret assaults upon the chastity of women and boys of good family...The man whose appetite is insatiate in such things, when he finds there is no scarcity, no resistance, in this field, will have contempt for the easy conquest and scorn for a woman's love, as a thing too readily given — in fact, too utterly feminine — and will turn his assault against the male quarters, eager to befoul the youth who will very soon be magistrates and judges and generals, believing that in them he will find a kind of pleasure difficult and hard to procure. His state is like that of men who are addicted to drinking and wine-bibbing, who after long and steady drinking of unmixed wine, often lose their taste for it and create an artificial thirst by the stimulus of sweatings, salted foods, and condiments."
http://demonax.info/doku.php?id=text:dio_chrysostom_orations_1-20#the_seventh_or_euboean_discourse
The Internet properly used for searches and study, is truly a "God-send" to the Christian who wishes to keep from following as sheep to those with a bias and homophobic slant.
I do NOT rely upon modern Greek dictionaries and Lexicons that mislead people by use the name of the Classic Strong's Dictionary and then adding a word to it; or doing the same thing with the Thayer.
Original Strong's Greek Dictionary
ἀρσενοκοίτης
arsenokoitēs
ar-sen-ok-oy'-tace
From G730 and G2845; a sodomite: - abuser of (that defile) self with mankind.
Total KJV occurrences: 2
The modern M-Strong's Greek Dictionary that is available on "theWord" Bible software
ἀρσενοκοίτης arsenokoites (ar-se-no-koi'-tees) n.
a male homosexual, sodomite.
[from G730 and G2845]
KJV: abuser of (that defile) self with mankind
The Original Thayer's Greek-English Dictionary
ἀρσενοκοίτης, ἀρσενοκοιτου, ὁ (ἄρσην a male; κοίτη a bed), one who lies with a male as with a female, a sodomite: 1 Corinthians 6:9; 1 Timothy 1:10. (Anthol. 9, 686, 5; ecclesiastical writings.)
One of the modern Thayer Lexicons available today which is on my "e-sword" Bible software
ἀρσενοκοίτης
arsenokoitēs
Thayer Definition:
1) one who lies with a male as with a female, sodomite, homosexual
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G730 and G2845
Even the highly respected 2000 Edition of the BDAG does not use the word "homosexual":
ἀρσενοκοίτης, ου, ὁ (ἄρσην ‘male’ + κοίτη ‘bed’; a male who engages in sexual activity w. a pers. of his own sex, pederast 1 Cor 6:9
Many think that "sodomite" and "homosexual" are synonymous, but that I find supported nowhere in source authorities:
Merriam-Webster
usually offensive
: someone who practices sodomy
—used as a term of abuse and disparagement for a gay person
Notice that, "used as a term of abuse and disparagement for a gay person!"
1828 Webster's English Dictionary
ABU'SER, n. s as z. One who abuses, in speech or behavior; one that deceives; a ravisher; a sodomite. 1 Cor 6.
That not only describes what the KJV translators meant by "abusers", it actually gives an idea of what a "sodmite" is in old Biblical language, and Websters even references 1 Cor.
Using cafeteria style choosing of Greek dictionaries, you can come up with what you believe, but it is a modern evangelical bias read into the source authorities and passed off by using the older classic names such as Strong's or Thayer.
Wrong question, and one brought for by the false teachers being deceived by the devil to deceive others.
Eternal life is only applicable to those who are abiding IN Christ.
Jesus is like Noah's Ark... as long as one is abiding IN the Ark they are saved.
Sinful behavior is throwing one's self overboard and since they are no longer in the safety of the Ark (abiding IN Christ)... they are not longer on their way to Heaven but are once again on their way to hell.... unless they REPENT, confessing their sin to the Lord and forsaking their sin so they can be cleansed of unrighteousness and once again be back in right standing with the Father (see Proverbs 28:13, 1 John 1:9) just like the prodigal son who was dead while away but alive once again when he returned to the Father. (see Luke 15:24-26)
The smart ones know this and abide IN Christ so they aren't cut off as Jesus told us about in John 15 which is what happens to those that do not abide IN Him.
Those that follow false doctrines that ignore the teachings of Jesus... well, not much hope for them and when they get where they are going, they will regret their false doctrine for all eternity!
Homosexuality is male on male sex, which the bible condemns. I don't know what your issue is.
And if you turn away from the Lord walking after the flesh in sin you are no longer saved at that point.
Unless you turn away from your sin and confess your sin to the Lord and be cleansed once again.
The false teachers claim people can live in sin and still be saved, but they are speaking in behalf of the devil
I see so we should not talk about things just because MAN disagrees with what the Lord says about it in His Word.
I would reply on this point, but you obviously do not know God's Word and the Lord would not have me waste time casting pearls before those that would be swine
Sadly those who claim to be Christians speaking in favor of sexual perversion do so because they apparently see this as a good thing.
They don't know the Lord. If they did they would know that Jesus said the only union acceptable to the Father is marriage between one man and one woman therefore all other sexual unions are not acceptable unto the Father causing those partaking in such or agreeing with such to be rejected and not allowed to enter in to God's Kingdom.
God's grace does not cover sinful behavior - a person must forsake and confess their sin to have mercy (Proverbs 28:13 and 1 John 1:9) because God is not mocked, what we sow is what we reap (Gal 6)
Romans 6:1,2
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Wow! So I can go back to living in sin and it's all good - I'd still be saved and go to Heaven even if I went back to being a servant of the devil and I forsake God?
Sorry bud, what you are speaking of is doctrines of devils
Obviously his issue is he enjoys sinful behavior and supports people living in sin
Those that know the Lord do not advocate for being able to live in sin.
That's just you overreacting and misrepresenting. God preserves His own...Philippians 1:6. When a child of God sins, God exercises discipline to draw His people again to Himself...Hebrews 12:6. Those who forsake God were never His own...1 John 2:19.
Define "turn away." Is it a specific number of sins or frequency?
How long does that cleansing last?