Sin Confession: A Waste of Breath?

[MessageOfTheCross]

President Donald Trump said he has never ask the Lord for forgiveness. Do you believe he is saved as of right now?

 

[unobtrusive]

Dont worry, we got expert bible pundits who get paid millions to explain away the verses we dont like. I mean sure they bring completely foreign doctrines but hey, the pastor told me im great and awesome. best not forget to tithe!!! and any less than double the regular amount and yous robbin God All the commandments of Jesus are old covenant, but the tithe is definately for sure 100% new covenant, it aint just for them levites!

MONEY MONEY, MONEY THE ALMIGHTY DOLLAR.


[video=youtube;GXE_n2q08Yw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXE_n2q08Yw[/video]

How bought a Lamb instead?

 

[Locutus]

[h=3]Sin Confession: A Waste of Breath?[/h]
So have we decided yes or no?

 

[joaniemarie]

I'm reading a post from another Christian on another web site about 1 John 1:9 This Christian man along with many other Christians posted their views on 1 John 1:9. I'm in agreement with this Christian. I've never met him., no nothing about him. I only know he and I agree on this.


[FONT=&quot]I understand, I was simply stating the way I was taught and brought up. I was taught that i could lose my salvation if I didn’t confess my all my sins. I also do not think that I can break fellowship with God due to sin. Satan would love for you to think that, therefore causing you to fall into guilt and condemnation and sin consious instead of Christ consious. Anything to get your focus off of Christ and on you.

When I sin, I confess my righteousness in Christ. God is not in a swivel chair, when I sin he doesn’t turn his back on me untill I confess than he swings back around. If I go down that road of losing my fellowship with Christ when ever I sin, I would always feel like I couldn’t have fellowship with God. If I sin, than confess my sin, I am saying that I am now sinless from that point on untill I sin again. If I say I have no sin than I am a liar and the truth is not in us. 1John 1:9 says Christ cleanses me from ALL unrighteousness which connotates a one time cleansing.

The first part of 1John 1, John is writing to the Gnostics unbelievers in the church who say they have no sin. Thus 1John 1:9 is sandwiched in between the two verses (8 and 10) that brings that out. If we acknowledge that we have sinned (verse 9) then he will forgive us and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. I acknowledged, confessed and agreed with God about my sin one time, that was when I accepted Jesus as Lord. I am cleansed from ALL unrighteousness.[/FONT]

 

[joaniemarie]

This is another share from another Christian who also understands about what righteousness means that may not agree with the majority here on this thread. We don't attain it., we have it in Christ. This is not about sinless perfection. This is about our righteous standing in Christ that causes us no longer to be under the the law of sin and death. We are now under a new covenant. The old one is OBSOLETE.

Hebrews 8:13 By calling this covenant "new" He ahs made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

Just because not all Christians here on CC don't see this confession issue the same way does not make all us other Christians wrong who don't see it the exact same way. Just because today on this thread there are more who agree and less who do it's not an indication of the whole truth. Truth is not established on us taking a vote. It has to be established by the Word of God. The Bible and the Holy Spirit is our standard even if what is being shared is not popular.



In answer to another Christian;
Emmanuel, from God’s perspective he has taken care of the sin problem, one time in love for us through the life, crucifixion, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Read this scripture and understand we are free from sin, period. Sin is of the devil. Righteousness is of God, given to us as a gift, through belief alone in Christ.

1 John 3:5-9
“And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.”

After being born of God, we are converted from a sinner into a child of God. The sinner is reckoned by God to be crucified with Christ. Child of God is reckoned by God to be alive in Christ, under grace, not under law. Where there is no law, there is no sin. “Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.” Romans 4:8. We are blessed!

 

[oldethennew]

President Donald Trump said he has never ask the Lord for forgiveness. Do you believe he is saved as of right now?[/QUOTE
======================================================
first of all, I, we, hub and me, would have to 'hear him say this himself', in order for us
to believe that someone would say such a thing - but, we certainly know that many people
do believe that persuasion...

just saying, like the 'old saying goes, something like this,
'Believe nothing of what you hear, and only half of what you see'...
as we grow=up and begin to learn, we soon discover that 'things are NOT what they appear to be';
percentage-wise, this knowledge is 'way-up-there-in-this-world'...

 

[BenFTW]

Goodness sake man this is utterly false. Wow.

As a tenet of the faith? Why do they call it the Reformation? I am speaking on a whole scale, not the fringe. You are too often trying to make everyone you disagree with out to be a heretic. That is sinful, mind you, as you continue to sow discord and strife, breaking unity. Learn to seek out the truth in meekness and respect. Quit casting the sheep out of the fold.

 

[BenFTW]

This is another share from another Christian who also understands about what righteousness means that may not agree with the majority here on this thread. We don't attain it., we have it in Christ. This is not about sinless perfection. This is about our righteous standing in Christ that causes us no longer to be under the the law of sin and death. We are now under a new covenant. The old one is OBSOLETE.

Hebrews 8:13 By calling this covenant "new" He ahs made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

Just because not all Christians here on CC don't see this confession issue the same way does not make all us other Christians wrong who don't see it the exact same way. Just because today on this thread there are more who agree and less who do it's not an indication of the whole truth. Truth is not established on us taking a vote. It has to be established by the Word of God. The Bible and the Holy Spirit is our standard even if what is being shared is not popular.



In answer to another Christian;
Emmanuel, from God’s perspective he has taken care of the sin problem, one time in love for us through the life, crucifixion, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Read this scripture and understand we are free from sin, period. Sin is of the devil. Righteousness is of God, given to us as a gift, through belief alone in Christ.

1 John 3:5-9
“And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.”

After being born of God, we are converted from a sinner into a child of God. The sinner is reckoned by God to be crucified with Christ. Child of God is reckoned by God to be alive in Christ, under grace, not under law. Where there is no law, there is no sin. “Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.” Romans 4:8. We are blessed!

Thank you for that, it spoke to me. An encouragement, appreciate it.

 

[PennEd]

Hi Ben,

There is a difference between justification and sanctification.
People don’t understand the difference. If they did it would bring a stop to
the works/Grace argument.

Justification - what Jesus did on the cross for us, a divine exchange
took place. We were clothed with the righteousness of Christ.

2 Corinthians 5:21 NKJV
[21] For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might
become the righteousness of God in Him.

Ephesians 2:8-10 NKJV
[8] For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of
yourselves; it is the gift of God, [9] not of works, lest anyone should boast.
[10] For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works,
which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.


Sanctification - the process of change, of becoming more and more
like Jesus, being changed from one degree of glory to another.
An ongoing journey of putting off the old man and putting on the new man

People not born again remain under condemnation.

Whereas people who are born again, are no longer under
condemnation but God continues to train us up, refine,
and convict as we become more Christ like.
Any good father does the same for his children. You wouldn’t
want the kids to become spoilt brats just because they are
sons and daughters of the king!

For the Christian as we journey along, conviction should lead
to repentance, saying sorry dad and then moving on under
His love and grace. It should never lead to condemnation
as we are free from that.

Works people always feel condemned.
Hyper grace (I hate that word) think anything goes.

The true balance is to be found in knowing that we are
already justified and we are continuing to be santified under
the love and care of the father

Born again Christians also feel the unction of the Holy Spirit.
They have an awakened conscience and we can hear that still
small voice.

What this young lady says! YES

Why is the fact that we are forgiven, mutually exclusive from admitting sin and saying sorry, and asking for strength to deny the sin next time?

 

[BenFTW]

Even though 1 John 1:9 mentions confessing our sins to God, and even though Jesus in the Lord's prayer Matthew 6 tells us to ask for forgiveness when praying, it's quite clear in scripture there is no concept of Christians confessing their sins to God.

The sarcasm is real. lol I would ask you, with these verses in mind (the Lord's prayer and 1 John 1:9), how do you view those verses in light of what is revealed in Hebrews of our total forgiveness of sin, no imputation of sin, and Jesus as our High Priest able to save us completely? Is it Jesus who saves us, or our confession of sin? Which is it?

 

[BenFTW]

What this young lady says! YES

Why is the fact that we are forgiven, mutually exclusive from admitting sin and saying sorry, and asking for strength to deny the sin next time?

Exactly one of the points of this thread. I am not against sin confession in the sense of transparency before God. I am asking why confess sin for the sake of forgiveness, when it is ours in Jesus Christ? By all means be open with the Lord, ask for strength to walk righteously, and seek the Lord on wisdom as to why you are weak in certain areas.

I am simply sharing what seems to be an apparent contradiction that we have forgiveness [the remission of our sins through the shed blood of Jesus] and then a traditonal view in Christianity to seek forgiveness through sin confession. How do people reconcile the two?

 

[joaniemarie]

​These differences in interpretation are going to come up folks we ALLL need to get used to it. So instead of fighting like cats and dogs., we need to be able to communicate with other believers well. There are millions on both sides of many issues. We do no credit to Jesus by accusing our brothers and sisters in Christ of heresy just because they don't see verses exactly the same way we do.

I posted a verse in another thread addressing this same issue of accusation against another believer. The word is "schism" and it's found in 1 Cor.12:25

[SUP]25 [/SUP]So that there should be no division or discord or lack of adaptation [of the parts of the body to each other], but the members all alike should have a mutual interest in and care for one another.



Discussing the Bible should be of all things done with love and concern for one another as we learn together. "schisms" should never be practiced against our brothers and sisters in Christ. Not in our personal real life living where we are seen., nor should we do it here on CC where no one can see us.

 

[unobtrusive]

The sarcasm is real. lol I would ask you, with these verses in mind (the Lord's prayer and 1 John 1:9), how do you view those verses in light of what is revealed in Hebrews of our total forgiveness of sin, no imputation of sin, and Jesus as our High Priest able to save us completely? Is it Jesus who saves us, or our confession of sin? Which is it?

Can they be separated when it comes to salvation?

 

[LoveGodForever]

1 John 1 [SUP]7 [/SUP]But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. [SUP]8 [/SUP]If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. [SUP]9 [/SUP]If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. [SUP]10 [/SUP]If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

He only cleanses us if we are walking in the light as He is in the light. So this begs the question: If we then sin - how do we restore fellowship in walking in the light? Through confession and forsaking our sins. This is the way that our Lord made available to us. The bible says that he who "confesses" AND "forsakes" his sins will obtain MERCY (Proverbs 28v13). And this we are to do if we are to remain walking in the light.

Then we have the words of Jesus to the 7 churches in Revelation: Ch2v5; 2v16; 2v21; 2v22; 3v3; 3v19 --- the common theme to those already in Christ (the churches) is repentance.

Look at Romans 2: [SUP]4 [/SUP]Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? [SUP]5 [/SUP]But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, [SUP]6 [/SUP]who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:[SUP][a][/SUP] [SUP]7 [/SUP]eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; [SUP]8 [/SUP]but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, [SUP]9 [/SUP]tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; [SUP]10 [/SUP]but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. [SUP]11 [/SUP]For there is no partiality with God.


Look at the book of Acts Chapter 8:

Simon the sorcerer became a believer - Acts 8[SUP]13 [/SUP]Then Simon himself also believed; and when he was baptized he continued with Philip, and was amazed, seeing the miracles and signs which were done.)

Then we see shortly thereafter: Acts 8v20-23

[SUP]20 [/SUP]But Peter said to him, “Your money perish with you, because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money! [SUP]21 [/SUP]You have neither part nor portion in this matter, for your heart is not right in the sight of God. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you. [SUP]23 [/SUP]For I see that you are poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity.”

This is but just a few examples throughout scripture explaining this truth. There are so many more.

Nicely written Chris welcome back.

I love God's Word but it is written for many; Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive: For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. Many are called but few are chosen...

 

[Issachar92]

Ben im still hoping you can gimme a quote from somebody. If not just say so and i'll let it be.

 

[BenFTW]

So are you agreeing or disagreeing with me?
Not fully sure what you are saying.

But one thing I do agree with you “GOD’S GRACE IS NOT A LICENSE TO SIN”

No ifs or buts here

Repentance is not a waste of time. The thread title is somewhat sensationalized. I am simply pointing out the apparent contradiction here, between sin confession for the sake of forgiveness, and the forgiveness we already have obtained by the Father for Christ's sake (which is the reason we are to forgive others).

 

[Off123123123]

The sarcasm is real. lol I would ask you, with these verses in mind (the Lord's prayer and 1 John 1:9), how do you view those verses in light of what is revealed in Hebrews of our total forgiveness of sin, no imputation of sin, and Jesus as our High Priest able to save us completely? Is it Jesus who saves us, or our confession of sin? Which is it?

Both/and. Already but not yet.

We do and believe both because the Bible shows both.

 

[joaniemarie]

He that covers his sins shall not prosper: but whosoever confesses and forsakes them shall have mercy (Proverbs 28:13).

Again., come into the new covenant. What does the Bible say God does now with our sins? He sees them no more. They are gone forgiven not only covered but EXPUNGED forever thanks to our Great High Priest Jesus. And as long as Jesus lives.... our sins are taken care of. And Jesus lives after the power of an endless life. Not the kind of power of an ended life the old covenant human high priests had. They eventually died.

They had to raise up new priests to train so there could be more high priests to make sacrifices for the people. But Jesus is our Great High Priest who will never die again. He will not be training new high priests for us. He is our only Great High Priest who ever maketh intercession for the saints...

 

[BenFTW]

Ben im still hoping you can gimme a quote from somebody. If not just say so and i'll let it be.

I'm unlearned in this area, and cannot provide a quote. I also don't wish to entertain fallacious logic. A quote from a person doesn't carry more weight than God's word, which I have amply provided.

 

[joaniemarie]

Ben, here is a post about another Christian in history who we know and sing her songs in churches all over the world. Taken from another thread some weeks back by our brother Bruce. When I heard this last year about Miss Havergale I was moved because here was a well known learned woman., a prodigy who sought truth each day and we are blessed by her songs.

Re: Does the Holy Spirit convict the born again believer of sin?

Sometimes we think some truths are new but in reality they are not. Here is someone back in the 1800's that had a supposedly "heretical" understanding of grace in the form of our sins being forgiven and those sins were continually being washed by the blood of Jesus.

I was reading about a hymn writer from the 1800's called Frances Ridley Havergal. She wrote many hymns and knew Latin, French, German, Greek and Hebrew.

She also knew by heart the 4 gospels, epistles and the book of Revelation by the time she was 23 years old - yet she still lived in total defeat.

She thought she had "great wickedness in her heart" - because of religious traditions taught to her which is what humanistic belief systems believe. They think Christians are a "new evolution" and thus they need to create and maintain their own self-righteousness.

It wasn't until she was reading in the Greek that the present tense was used for 1 John 1:7 "...His blood cleanseth us from all sin".

She realized all her sins were forgiven by the blood of Jesus and thus she believed it and experienced peace and joy in her life because of this truth and lived a holier life.

Here is a direct QUOTE:

" Have we not been limiting 1 John 1:7 , by practically making it refer only to "remission of sins that are past" instead of taking the grand simplicity of "cleanseth from all sin"?

"All" is all; and as we may trust Him to cleanse us from the stain of past sins so we may trust Him to cleanse us from all present defilement; yes, all!

By refusing to take 1 John 1:7 in it's fullness, we will lose the fullness of it's application and power in our lives. It goes on cleansing , and I have no words to tell how my heart rejoices in it."

UNQUOTE:

https://books.google.ca/books?id=zO_...%22%3F&f=false

She got the revelation that all her sins were forgiven because she was in Christ and thus always in the Light and His blood continually cleansed her. She was able to walk free in Christ from that point on. Today she would be called a heretic and being in error by some for having this belief.

Believing the true gospel of the grace of God in Christ finished work on the cross and resurrection will change us as we grow in His grace. We grow in His grace by the "hearing of Christ Himself".

Here is a book for those interested in her life: Jennie Chappell, "Women Who Have Worked and Won: the life story of Mrs. Spurgeon, Mrs. Booth-Tucker, F.R. Havergal, and Ramabai," London: S.W. Partridge & Co. Ltd. 1904​