Sin shall not have dominion over us that are in Christ
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My understanding of this is that we are 'being transformed....from living an earthly/natural life to be changed to a spiritual/heavenly life. Where does that happen ?
It begins right here on earth in our present life but in Spirit it happens in the Kingdom of God's 'dear Son Col 1v13 , that is where the transformation takes place, in heavenly places with and in Christ who is our Redeemer washing and cleansing us of sin---preparing us for the Kgd of God who being perfect and holy could not otherwise receive us.
People who despise OT laws and teachings will never understand this process, trying to claim all good things God has for us in the future without going through any hardships. Taking 'shortcuts is not acceptable....as they will find out.
It begins right here on earth in our present life but in Spirit it happens in the Kingdom of God's 'dear Son Col 1v13 , that is where the transformation takes place, in heavenly places with and in Christ who is our Redeemer washing and cleansing us of sin---preparing us for the Kgd of God who being perfect and holy could not otherwise receive us.
People who despise OT laws and teachings will never understand this process, trying to claim all good things God has for us in the future without going through any hardships. Taking 'shortcuts is not acceptable....as they will find out.
B
I agreed with what you said G777, I agree with the few clips of JP (now I can put a face to the name LOL), but why? We all do know that adultery is sin. We also know when we are in sin we need the presence of Jesus to reform our minds and bring us to repentance, I am ok with this as long as there is repentance.
I think and am convinced that Romans 8 has a bearing on this situation. We can all agree that sin can not be looked on by God. We can all agree that we "put on the righteousness of Jesus" when we are baptised and accept Him as Lord and receive the Holy Spirit (Which way round this happens is not important, as long as it happens), then when God looks at us he sees Jesus in us so He can look at us and we can stand before the thrown of grace, in His sight.
If we know God then we can all agree that there is sin in adultery, as there is in anything we conceive of as a flesh led appetite. Romans 8 starts with;
We have freedom from sin by accepting Jesus sacrifice and receiving His spirit. then the next paragraph tells us why;
Paul then reiterates who we are in Christ;
Then comes an obligation in V 12 and what that obligation is connected a cost "you will die" Paul then goes on to show why we are what we are when in the right way with God, and what the cost of this relationship is to us because we do live in the world, and Paul shows us the inheritance we have in Christ as something we can look forward to and hold as if we own it already;
From v 18 we have a little personal information about the church in Rome, as they face persecution and hardships, Paul is then to the end of this chapter encouraging them to hold on and, because we, they as we do, live in fleshly bodies, which do bleed when we are cut and bruise when we are hit. He shows that persecutions when we hold the Spirit tight produce in us joy and praise for God, and that the pain they felt was also felt by creation as it to waits for the glory that will come when Jesus returns and fulfils all.
He shows us how the Spirit works within us with "Groans" that produce intercession, and he finishes with more encouragement for the church in Roam. We as yet do not have the trials and tribulation of the Roman Church, they do in China, and I am sure they receive the comfort they need through these words, but v 12 keeps coming back and niggling, the obligation which could lead to death.
I perceive this is the point we part company. The message of adultery is sure, it is the obligation that leads to death we disagree on. Your post and your words were good to read, the four or five different vids of JP put together were a bit overpowering and just kept saying what we already know, that was why I put why?
God bless you Bro'
I think and am convinced that Romans 8 has a bearing on this situation. We can all agree that sin can not be looked on by God. We can all agree that we "put on the righteousness of Jesus" when we are baptised and accept Him as Lord and receive the Holy Spirit (Which way round this happens is not important, as long as it happens), then when God looks at us he sees Jesus in us so He can look at us and we can stand before the thrown of grace, in His sight.
If we know God then we can all agree that there is sin in adultery, as there is in anything we conceive of as a flesh led appetite. Romans 8 starts with;
We have freedom from sin by accepting Jesus sacrifice and receiving His spirit. then the next paragraph tells us why;
Paul then reiterates who we are in Christ;
Then comes an obligation in V 12 and what that obligation is connected a cost "you will die" Paul then goes on to show why we are what we are when in the right way with God, and what the cost of this relationship is to us because we do live in the world, and Paul shows us the inheritance we have in Christ as something we can look forward to and hold as if we own it already;
From v 18 we have a little personal information about the church in Rome, as they face persecution and hardships, Paul is then to the end of this chapter encouraging them to hold on and, because we, they as we do, live in fleshly bodies, which do bleed when we are cut and bruise when we are hit. He shows that persecutions when we hold the Spirit tight produce in us joy and praise for God, and that the pain they felt was also felt by creation as it to waits for the glory that will come when Jesus returns and fulfils all.
He shows us how the Spirit works within us with "Groans" that produce intercession, and he finishes with more encouragement for the church in Roam. We as yet do not have the trials and tribulation of the Roman Church, they do in China, and I am sure they receive the comfort they need through these words, but v 12 keeps coming back and niggling, the obligation which could lead to death.
I perceive this is the point we part company. The message of adultery is sure, it is the obligation that leads to death we disagree on. Your post and your words were good to read, the four or five different vids of JP put together were a bit overpowering and just kept saying what we already know, that was why I put why?
God bless you Bro'
Well, the reason we are in this good situation is because Jesus has interceded for us when we accepted Him as our Savior. He is not our adversary., He is our Advocate. He forever maketh intercession for the saints because He lives after the power of an endless life.
He will ALWAYS be there making intercession for us second by second. We do not do anything to cause Him to be our Advocate. He IS because we are now in the Beloved. We can't get any more "IN" than that.
===========================================================
ll,
I'm sure that you understood what I meant as (Advocate).
1JOHN 1:9.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins,
and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
HEB. 7:25.
Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, s
eeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
REV. 2:5. = written to The Church -
Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works;
or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place,
except thou repent.
to deny our Holy Saviour's position as our High Priest is abomination to God...
if one feels that there is no 'repentance', there can be no growth or 'over-coming...
the greatest joy we can feel is to know that our Saviour will always forgive us our
trespasses when we go to Him in Godly sorrow - and how does our Master teach us
to pray? 'Forgive us our sins as we forgive those who trespass against us'...
the is CHRISTIANITY 101'...
He will ALWAYS be there making intercession for us second by second. We do not do anything to cause Him to be our Advocate. He IS because we are now in the Beloved. We can't get any more "IN" than that.
===========================================================
ll,
I'm sure that you understood what I meant as (Advocate).
1JOHN 1:9.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins,
and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
HEB. 7:25.
Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, s
eeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
REV. 2:5. = written to The Church -
Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works;
or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place,
except thou repent.
to deny our Holy Saviour's position as our High Priest is abomination to God...
if one feels that there is no 'repentance', there can be no growth or 'over-coming...
the greatest joy we can feel is to know that our Saviour will always forgive us our
trespasses when we go to Him in Godly sorrow - and how does our Master teach us
to pray? 'Forgive us our sins as we forgive those who trespass against us'...
the is CHRISTIANITY 101'...
I put the videos up because some people keep mis-representing what is being said by the accusations that Christians " do not repent." The video shows the truth.
I definitely agree with Romans 8:12. If I took up shooting heroin in my arms today - my life here on this earth would come to an end quickly and bring death - not only to me but to others that I love as well.
To some this "death" means loss of eternal salvation which puts the onus on the believer to "maintain" their righteousness in order to be with the Lord and in my thinking - this negates the work of Christ done in our inner man in Christ.
Our mixed up stinking thinking is where we need to have our minds renewed to the truths that are in Christ so that we can manifest outwardly the life of Christ that is in us to a hurt and dying world.
We all agree how the true life that is in us in Christ should look like when it is being manifested outwardly - but some disagree on whether this behavior leads to eternal damnation which is a regular Pentecostal viewpoint that many do not adhere to.
So, it's good to give the two views and let each one have the faith that they have.
At least we don't call each other names like false teacher, heretic, lover of sin, satanic..etc. just because we disagree on some subjects like some others do.
Bless you too bro...one day we will go for a long walk with our Lord together and we will be talking about Christ and all that He has done for us...All is well!
B
I honestly do pray we will go for that walk and laugh at the silly things we argue about. They will be silly then if we do walk, for now I feel we can loose our salvation if we move from God and fulfil our flesh traits without then coming to repentance, through the intercessor we have in Jesus.
God blass
God blass
We will go for that walk...we have all eternity so surely there will be time for us...
And you are entitled to your opinion concerning one losing salvation and I understand that belief as I went to a pentecostal church after I came to Christ that had that belief.
What do you think of this post which describes what Paul said about those in Corinth that were doing all kinds of living after the flesh?
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...-other-than-romans-8-1-lol-6.html#post2647717
Quote:
Paul told the Corinthians who they were in Christ...then corrected their behavior...he didn't say you were all unsaved now...
..he told them who they were in Christ...saints...they have His righteousness, holiness..etc.
These are the very same people that were causing divisions and strife amongst each other. Men going to have sex with the temple prostitutes, believers taking each other to court, people getting drunk at Communion..etc.
Paul called them carnal Christians and yet at the same time called them "saints" - that they have the righteousness of God, that they were complete in Him, that they had the mind of Christ, that they were holy...etc...that Christ was confirmed as being in them.
Then Paul goes on to say in verse 8 " who will also confirm you to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ."
Paul gives them their true identity in Christ then goes on to describe what this true life in Christ will look like as we grow in Christ.
Paul says later on to "Awake to righteousness and sin not" This is a call to see who you are in Christ and in seeing this - sin will fall off of us like dead leaves off a tree.
1 Corinthians 1:1-9 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours:
[SUP]4 [/SUP] I thank my God always concerning you for the grace of God which was given you in Christ Jesus,
[SUP]5 [/SUP] that in everything you were enriched in Him, in all speech and all knowledge,
[SUP]6 [/SUP] even as the testimony concerning Christ was confirmed in you,
[SUP]7 [/SUP] so that you are not lacking in any gift, awaiting eagerly the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,
[SUP]8 [/SUP] who will also confirm you to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.
1 Corinthians 1:30-31 (NASB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,
[SUP]31 [/SUP] so that, just as it is written, "LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD."
B
I think I have a bit of understanding here, I don't think we loose salvation once and for all, else Jesus intersession for us would not be, and he does. I feel it ties in with our own personal rapture (if I can call it that) when we go and meet Jesus to be with Him for eternity, either through death or His return.
We/I can not ignore Jesus warnings about the unfaithful servant. It feels right to say that; "once there were three servants to a master who while he was away took care of business. One stayed faithful and never left his post, one played the fool and although mindful of his duties took for himself and indulged in the occasional liberty, and one forgot who he was working for and acted like he owned the place.
The master came back and his return was as a thief, eg totally unexpected and unannounced (a bit like a car crash). The first servant was found doing good, the second servant had that week been mindful of his duties and performed well for once and he was found doing what he should. the third one was not and was drunk and forcing his advances on the younger staff he had employed to do his work". (parable mine)
The first was given more to look after that the second, because his master realised what he had done, the second was rewarded as the master saw fit, although the returns were not as plentiful as the first, he was found doing what was right and rewarded anyway, the third was scolded and told to leave and not come back.
I don't think it has much to do with loosing our salvation for good, but if we are found wanting and abusing our position in the Lord when we have our own personal rapture I do feel it right that we could loose our salvation. If we keep a short account we will be ok, if we do not, and keep falling and do not seek the Lords face and repentance is not forthcoming, then I feel/know we are in trouble should we be called to Him.
I trust I have made a clear point of this, I hope so. We do seem to go round in circles a bit. When Jesus talked about servants there was always one who didn't receive anything but condemnation and I feel it is right to be aware of this. I am not talking about knee trembling fear, but a reverential fear that keeps us on the straight and narrow, a fear based in love and reciprocation for the sacrifice Jesus made on the cross, and a mindfulness of our situation as sinful humans who only have the sacrificial blood of Jesus (which brings grace) to save us.
We/I can not ignore Jesus warnings about the unfaithful servant. It feels right to say that; "once there were three servants to a master who while he was away took care of business. One stayed faithful and never left his post, one played the fool and although mindful of his duties took for himself and indulged in the occasional liberty, and one forgot who he was working for and acted like he owned the place.
The master came back and his return was as a thief, eg totally unexpected and unannounced (a bit like a car crash). The first servant was found doing good, the second servant had that week been mindful of his duties and performed well for once and he was found doing what he should. the third one was not and was drunk and forcing his advances on the younger staff he had employed to do his work". (parable mine)
The first was given more to look after that the second, because his master realised what he had done, the second was rewarded as the master saw fit, although the returns were not as plentiful as the first, he was found doing what was right and rewarded anyway, the third was scolded and told to leave and not come back.
I don't think it has much to do with loosing our salvation for good, but if we are found wanting and abusing our position in the Lord when we have our own personal rapture I do feel it right that we could loose our salvation. If we keep a short account we will be ok, if we do not, and keep falling and do not seek the Lords face and repentance is not forthcoming, then I feel/know we are in trouble should we be called to Him.
I trust I have made a clear point of this, I hope so. We do seem to go round in circles a bit. When Jesus talked about servants there was always one who didn't receive anything but condemnation and I feel it is right to be aware of this. I am not talking about knee trembling fear, but a reverential fear that keeps us on the straight and narrow, a fear based in love and reciprocation for the sacrifice Jesus made on the cross, and a mindfulness of our situation as sinful humans who only have the sacrificial blood of Jesus (which brings grace) to save us.