sola scriptura is against 2Peter1:20

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H

Hearer

Guest
#41
#41
faith and works is a false dichotomy. THey are two sides of the same coin. as it turns on the faith side as it turns onward it reveals the works side that comes from faith.

But that is not the essence of whether to follow Catholicism. The essence of catholicism is its belief in Jesus and the scrptures. But that we need the guidance of the holy spiirt in holy men through generations and through the annointed men of today to intrerpret the scriptures. That is why we any of us use study bibles and courses from our tradition. The Baptists have their tradition, as do the lutherans and the pentecostals etc etc etc.

The Catholics have a tradition that is the most ancient and it is the deepest.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#42
#42
Hearer said:
faith and works is a false dichotomy. THey are two sides of the same coin. as it turns on the faith side as it turns onward it reveals the works side that comes from faith.

But that is not the essence of whether to follow Catholicism. The essence of catholicism is its belief in Jesus and the scrptures. But that we need the guidance of the holy spiirt in holy men through generations and through the annointed men of today to intrerpret the scriptures. That is why we any of us use study bibles and courses from our tradition. The Baptists have their tradition, as do the lutherans and the pentecostals etc etc etc.

The Catholics have a tradition that is the most ancient and it is the deepest.
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The thing which separates Catholics, and ALL works based gospels no matter who they might be, and those who believe in a non works based Gospel is this. The Catholics and others state that the works one does is a means to salvation. (the Catholics do have the most works of all other churches. but it does not matter if it is one work, ten works or 100 works. They are still works.) And that salvation is not assured until one dies. that is if you have done the works necessary to have your sin atoned for (then some Catholics believe in purgatory, where if you messed up, you can have someone else atone your sin for you so you can get in)

Where as the others believe we are saved by faith. And all of the works we do is a result of our said salvation. Our salvation is complete the moment we are saved, and eternal in nature. The works we do is out of a grateful heart of a God who died for us, And rose again for us. And offered us, who do not deserve anything/ His gift of salvation and an eternity with him.

The jews in Christ time had the longest and most ancient of traditions (even jews of today have this ancient tradition which goes back 2000 years before the catholic churches tradition) Tradition means nothing if the word preached and passed on is in error. it did not help the jews, it will not help the Catholics, the Lutherans, the Baptists or whatever denomination one might belong to. It is not tradition that saves us (history shows that tradition has let us down( It is the gospel of Christ. Get it right, your in (if you truely believe it) get it wrong. Your doomed for eternity!
 
H

Hearer

Guest
#43
#43
eternally-gratefull said:
The thing which separates Catholics, and ALL works based gospels no matter who they might be, and those who believe in a non works based Gospel is this. The Catholics and others state that the works one does is a means to salvation. (the Catholics do have the most works of all other churches. but it does not matter if it is one work, ten works or 100 works. They are still works.) And that salvation is not assured until one dies. that is if you have done the works necessary to have your sin atoned for (then some Catholics believe in purgatory, where if you messed up, you can have someone else atone your sin for you so you can get in)

Where as the others believe we are saved by faith. And all of the works we do is a result of our said salvation. Our salvation is complete the moment we are saved, and eternal in nature. The works we do is out of a grateful heart of a God who died for us, And rose again for us. And offered us, who do not deserve anything/ His gift of salvation and an eternity with him.

The jews in Christ time had the longest and most ancient of traditions (even jews of today have this ancient tradition which goes back 2000 years before the catholic churches tradition) Tradition means nothing if the word preached and passed on is in error. it did not help the jews, it will not help the Catholics, the Lutherans, the Baptists or whatever denomination one might belong to. It is not tradition that saves us (history shows that tradition has let us down( It is the gospel of Christ. Get it right, your in (if you truely believe it) get it wrong. Your doomed for eternity!
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well you are rightif you say that those who feel they must follow the law must get it completly right. Those under grace do not have to get it 100% right. But Catholics are also under grace. In fact the truth is that we are saved by grace and not by faith.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#44
#44
Hearer said:
well you are rightif you say that those who feel they must follow the law must get it completly right. Those under grace do not have to get it 100% right. But Catholics are also under grace. In fact the truth is that we are saved by grace and not by faith.
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So let me get this right. Your not saved by faith. But you are saved by works (I am not talking about the law. but any work a man does)?? Wow. I am not sure to many catholics will agree with you there.
 
NarrowRoadDisciple

NarrowRoadDisciple

Senior Member
#45
Jan 15, 2011
736
28
28
#45
eternally-gratefull what I was trying to say was that through faith come good works. Good works do not cause or create faith.
Sorry it was a late hour. Did it not come through clear? hehe
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#46
#46
NarrowRoadDisciple said:
eternally-gratefull what I was trying to say was that through faith come good works. Good works do not cause or create faith.
Sorry it was a late hour. Did it not come through clear? hehe
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lol, sorry, the words "works alone" got me going. Many use this to justify faith plus works, so it seems I misunderstood! Its all good :)
 
S

Scotth1960

Guest
#47
#47
Hearer said:
The interpretation of scriptures is not for individuals.

2 Peter 1:20
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Hearer said:
(Amp bible)
[Yet] first [you must] understand this, that no prophecy of Scripture is [a matter] of any personal or private or special interpretation (loosening, solving).

In fact the very nature of the bible is that it belongs as a whole book to the Church. The Church has the job of interpreting the prophecies and messages contained in the bibleand transmitting it to the members.

So for someone to say that they have sufficient holiness and sanctity as well as a full enough share of the Holy Spirit to replace the authority of the Church is being very prideful.

Dear Hearer, Please consider the following words, thank you: God bless you. In Christ Jesus, Scott R. Harrington
"c. Is the Bible, in practice, really "all sufficient" for Protestants?
"Protestants frequently claim they "just believe the Bible," but a number of questions arise when one examines their actual use of the Bible. For instance, why do Protestants write so many books on doctrine and the Christian life in general, if indeed all that is necessary is the Bible? If the Bible by itself were sufficient for one to understand it, then why don't Protestants simply hand out Bibles? And if it is "all sufficient," why does it not produce consistent results, i.e. why do Protestants not all believe the same? What is the purpose of the many Protestant study Bibles, if all that is needed is the Bible itself? Why do they hand out tracts and other material? Why do they even teach or preach at all -- why not just read the Bible to people? The answer is though they usually will not admit it, Protestants instinctively know that the Bible cannot be understood alone. And inf fact every Protestant sect has its own body of traditions, though again they generally will not call them what they are. It is not an accident that Jehovah's Witnesses all believe the same things, and Southern Baptists emphatically do not believe the same things. Jehovah's Witnesses and Southern Baptists do not each individually come up with their own ideas from an independent study of the Bible; rather, those in each group are all taught to believe in a certain way -- from a common tradition. ...." (page 9:Sola Scriptura: In the Vanity of Their Minds -- An Orthodox examination of the Protestant teaching. by Fr. John Whiteford. Missionary Leaflet # Holy Trinity Orthodox Mission, 466 Foothill Blvd., Box 467, La Canada, CA 91011 Editor: Bishop Alexander (Mileant) (sola_scriptura_john_whiteford.doc, 12-01-99 ).

God save us all in Christ Jesus our Lord and Saviour. Amen. In Erie PA August 2011 AD Scott R. Harrington
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S

Scotth1960

Guest
#48
#48
Hearer said:
faith and works is a false dichotomy. THey are two sides of the same coin. as it turns on the faith side as it turns onward it reveals the works side that comes from faith.

But that is not the essence of whether to follow Catholicism. The essence of catholicism is its belief in Jesus and the scrptures. But that we need the guidance of the holy spiirt in holy men through generations and through the annointed men of today to intrerpret the scriptures. That is why we any of us use study bibles and courses from our tradition. The Baptists have their tradition, as do the lutherans and the pentecostals etc etc etc.



The Catholics have a tradition that is the most ancient and it is the deepest.
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Dear Hearer.
The Orthodox Catholics (Greek Orthodox) have a tradition that is more ancient than Catholicism, and it is the truest (cf. John 15:26, John 16:13) whereas Roman Catholicism dates to 354 AD to 430 AD with Augustine of Hippo. By 381 AD, in the First Council of Constantinople, which is the Second Ecumenical Council, the Orthodox Catholic Faith (Jude 3) was already clearly expressed, and this was the Orthodox Catholic Faith "And in the Holy Spirit, the LORD and Giver of Life, Who proceedeth from the Father (John 15:26), Who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; Who spake by the prophets." This, the common Christian Creed, accepted by all Orthodox Catholic Christians, including St. Leo III in 806 AD, who, although he believed in the Filioque, forbad the Filioque from being added to the Creed in silver plates in the Latin and Greek plates in the Vatican Lateran Palace in St.Peter's Cathedral.
God bless you in Christ Jesus. Amen. In Erie PA USA August 2011 AD Scott R. Harrington
 
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