Some thought about "Jews"

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DavyP

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The Book of Hosea covers the fate of the ten lost tribes of Israel.

The ten northern tribes of Israel which lived in the northern portions of the holy land, were not known as Jews.

Per Josephus, the Jewish historian (100 A.D.), those of the southern kingdom at Jerusalem-Judea were those who called themselves Jews:

7. Now when he was come to Babylon, and had taken with him many of his countrymen, who voluntarily followed him, he came to Jerusalem in the twenty and fifth year of the reign of Xerxes. And when he had shown the epistles to God 13 he gave them to Adeus, and to the other governors. He also called together all the people to Jerusalem, and stood in the midst of the temple, and made the following speech to them: "You know, O Jews, that God hath kept our fathers, Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in mind continually, and for the sake of their righteousness hath not left off the care of you. Indeed he hath assisted me in gaining this authority of the king to raise up our wall, and finish what is wanting of the temple. I desire you, therefore who well know the ill-will our neighboring nations bear to us, and that when once they are made sensible that we are in earnest about building, they will come upon us, and contrive many ways of obstructing our works, that you will, in the first place, put your trust in God, as in him that will assist us against their hatred, and to intermit building neither night nor day, but to use all diligence, and to hasten on the work, now we have this especial opportunity for it." When he had said this, he gave order that the rulers should measure the wall, and part the work of it among the people, according to their villages and cities, as every one's ability should require. And when he had added this promise, that he himself, with his servants, would assist them, he dissolved the assembly. So the Jews prepared for the work: that is the name they are called by from the day that they came up from Babylon, which is taken from the tribe of Judah, which came first to these places, and thence both they and the country gained that appellation.
(The Antiquities of the Jews, by Flavius Josephus, Book XI, Chapter 5, section 7)​


The ten northern tribes of the "kingdom of Israel" were removed from the holy land first, while the Jews of the "kingdom of Judah" remained. The ten tribes were taken captive first by the kings of Assyria, never to return, to this day.

The ten tribes made up the majority of the children of Israel. Only a small remnant of the ten tribes rejected Jeroboam, king of Israel's gold calf idol worship in the north, and left the north and went south to join with Judah and Benjamin at Judea (2 Chronicles 11). The larger portion of ten tribe Israelites went captive out of the land to Assyria and the lands of the Medes (2 Kings 17).

2 Esdras 13 (Apocrypha, which is included in original 1st edition KJV), mentions the migration of the ten tribes that were taken captive first and separated from the Jews of the southern kingdom.

40 these are the ten tribes which were led away from their own land into captivity in the days of King Hoshe′a, whom Shalmane′ser the king of the Assyrians led captive; he took them across the river, and they were taken into another land. 41 But they formed this plan for themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the nations and go to a more distant region, where mankind had never lived, 42 that there at least they might keep their statutes which they had not kept in their own land. 43 And they went in by the narrow passages of the Euphra′tes river. 44 For at that time the Most High performed signs for them, and stopped the channels of the river until they had passed over. 45 Through that region there was a long way to go, a journey of a year and a half; and that country is called Arzareth.[j]
Josephus said in his day, (100 A.D.), the ten tribes were still beyond the river Euphrates, and were a great many people, too many to be counted.

The Book of Hosea reveals the ten tribe "house of Israel" would be removed from the holy land, and scattered to the "wilderness", to new lands, and there they would be given the full strength of Baal idol worship that they fell away into. And God would call them, Lo-Ami, meaning 'not My people'. Then the time would come when God would make a new covenant with them, and take the names of Baali out of their mouths, and they would call God "Ishi". (Friend).

That is exactly what I believe happened to the majority of the children of Israel, the ten lost tribes. God scattered the majority of them to the West. In the Scottish Declaration of Independence, the Declaration of Arbroath (13th century A.D.), the signers mention their heritage from ancient Israel, and how they migrated to the west, from old Spain, Greece, etc.

Linguist professor at the University of Michigan, Leroy Waterman, in 1930 translated a portion of the Assyrian cuneiform clay tablets, and deciphered the Assyrian names of what the Assyrians called Omri king of Israel over the ten tribes, Khumri. The Jehu Steele also contains relative information linked to that. Professor Waterman translated those names as linked to the Cimmerian tribes, the Celtic peoples which migrated from the East into Asia Minor and Europe, having crossed through the Caucasus Mountains above the Black Sea, becoming known as Caucasians.

These historically became the early founders of the western Christian nations, the early beginnings of Christ's Church once Jesus was crucified and The Gospel preached among the Gentiles in Asia Minor and Europe.
 

Seeker47

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Aug 7, 2018
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You must have missed my post #82, for I covered much of that.
I did indeed read your post. You have, as have I, obviously spent much time reading all God's word. The information in your post is why I have always put the term "Jew" in quotations. There are so many definitions and refinements of God's chosen people that any one single term does not work. Hebrews doesn't work, nor does Israelite. Even referring to the religious branches that are often referenced as "Judaism" is unclear. Further, it is my understanding that many messianic Jews reject the term Christian so even those names can be misunderstood.

I have found the study of the "Ten Lost Tribes" to be fascinating. The valley of dry bones and the two sticks revealed in Daniel would appear to be occurring today. I would also mention that there is much evidence that The 10 Tribes also spread east and eventually north. I have speculated that God's covenant with Abraham to bless all nations through his seed really began then.
 

Seeker47

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2018
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The Book of Hosea covers the fate of the ten lost tribes of Israel.

The ten northern tribes of Israel which lived in the northern portions of the holy land, were not known as Jews.

Per Josephus, the Jewish historian (100 A.D.), those of the southern kingdom at Jerusalem-Judea were those who called themselves Jews:

7. Now when he was come to Babylon, and had taken with him many of his countrymen, who voluntarily followed him, he came to Jerusalem in the twenty and fifth year of the reign of Xerxes. And when he had shown the epistles to God 13 he gave them to Adeus, and to the other governors. He also called together all the people to Jerusalem, and stood in the midst of the temple, and made the following speech to them: "You know, O Jews, that God hath kept our fathers, Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in mind continually, and for the sake of their righteousness hath not left off the care of you. Indeed he hath assisted me in gaining this authority of the king to raise up our wall, and finish what is wanting of the temple. I desire you, therefore who well know the ill-will our neighboring nations bear to us, and that when once they are made sensible that we are in earnest about building, they will come upon us, and contrive many ways of obstructing our works, that you will, in the first place, put your trust in God, as in him that will assist us against their hatred, and to intermit building neither night nor day, but to use all diligence, and to hasten on the work, now we have this especial opportunity for it." When he had said this, he gave order that the rulers should measure the wall, and part the work of it among the people, according to their villages and cities, as every one's ability should require. And when he had added this promise, that he himself, with his servants, would assist them, he dissolved the assembly. So the Jews prepared for the work: that is the name they are called by from the day that they came up from Babylon, which is taken from the tribe of Judah, which came first to these places, and thence both they and the country gained that appellation.
(The Antiquities of the Jews, by Flavius Josephus, Book XI, Chapter 5, section 7)​


The ten northern tribes of the "kingdom of Israel" were removed from the holy land first, while the Jews of the "kingdom of Judah" remained. The ten tribes were taken captive first by the kings of Assyria, never to return, to this day.

The ten tribes made up the majority of the children of Israel. Only a small remnant of the ten tribes rejected Jeroboam, king of Israel's gold calf idol worship in the north, and left the north and went south to join with Judah and Benjamin at Judea (2 Chronicles 11). The larger portion of ten tribe Israelites went captive out of the land to Assyria and the lands of the Medes (2 Kings 17).

2 Esdras 13 (Apocrypha, which is included in original 1st edition KJV), mentions the migration of the ten tribes that were taken captive first and separated from the Jews of the southern kingdom.

40 these are the ten tribes which were led away from their own land into captivity in the days of King Hoshe′a, whom Shalmane′ser the king of the Assyrians led captive; he took them across the river, and they were taken into another land. 41 But they formed this plan for themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the nations and go to a more distant region, where mankind had never lived, 42 that there at least they might keep their statutes which they had not kept in their own land. 43 And they went in by the narrow passages of the Euphra′tes river. 44 For at that time the Most High performed signs for them, and stopped the channels of the river until they had passed over. 45 Through that region there was a long way to go, a journey of a year and a half; and that country is called Arzareth.[j]
Josephus said in his day, (100 A.D.), the ten tribes were still beyond the river Euphrates, and were a great many people, too many to be counted.

The Book of Hosea reveals the ten tribe "house of Israel" would be removed from the holy land, and scattered to the "wilderness", to new lands, and there they would be given the full strength of Baal idol worship that they fell away into. And God would call them, Lo-Ami, meaning 'not My people'. Then the time would come when God would make a new covenant with them, and take the names of Baali out of their mouths, and they would call God "Ishi". (Friend).

That is exactly what I believe happened to the majority of the children of Israel, the ten lost tribes. God scattered the majority of them to the West. In the Scottish Declaration of Independence, the Declaration of Arbroath (13th century A.D.), the signers mention their heritage from ancient Israel, and how they migrated to the west, from old Spain, Greece, etc.

Linguist professor at the University of Michigan, Leroy Waterman, in 1930 translated a portion of the Assyrian cuneiform clay tablets, and deciphered the Assyrian names of what the Assyrians called Omri king of Israel over the ten tribes, Khumri. The Jehu Steele also contains relative information linked to that. Professor Waterman translated those names as linked to the Cimmerian tribes, the Celtic peoples which migrated from the East into Asia Minor and Europe, having crossed through the Caucasus Mountains above the Black Sea, becoming known as Caucasians.

These historically became the early founders of the western Christian nations, the early beginnings of Christ's Church once Jesus was crucified and The Gospel preached among the Gentiles in Asia Minor and Europe.
I posted just before reading this post. You covered the issue much better than I ever could.
 
Nov 1, 2024
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The valley of dry bones and the two sticks revealed in Daniel would appear to be occurring today.
The two sticks prophecy was fulfilled at Pentecost

Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand. Ezekiel 37:19
And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. Acts 2:1
But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: Acts 2:14
Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: Acts 2:22
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. Acts 2:41
 
Nov 1, 2024
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I have speculated that God's covenant with Abraham to bless all nations through his seed really began then.
The seed they were/are blessed in is Christ, Abraham's seed. How would the tribes of Europe have been blessed by idolatrous exiled Israelites?
 

Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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Lol. Couldn't give you a laugh 😆 emoji, but was worthy. The word of God is sharp, and piercing to the division of eye and socket.
Indeed especially here …

“And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭9:47‬ ‭KJV‬‬

ouch ! Disclaimer : I hope people realize the spiritual nature of it so no one grabs a spoon and goes to work
 

LenMcM

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Mar 9, 2023
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Ever since God named Jacob "Israel" Jews have always been and ever shall be God's chosen people. They were chosen to be an example and take God's message to the World. God made a Covenant with Israel for that purpose. God's Covenants can not be broken by Him but Israel broke it many times. He (Yeshua) came to His own (His Chosen) but His own received Him not. -- Israel was never saved by works or sacrifices for the Old Testament is very clear that they were only accepted on the basis of there faith. A great number of Jews will accept Yeshua as there Saviour when they witness the Rapture ( Removal of Christians) at the beginning of the Tribulation and they will be the main evangelists proclaiming The "Gospel of The Kingdom" during the Tribulation and most will suffer martyrdom as a consequence. -- At the end of the Tribulation all Israel will be saved, but that "ALL" is the 1 third remnant remaining after Armageddon when they accept Yeshua and cry out "Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord". Israel will still have a prominent place during the Millennium. I am just a Gentile but I love Israel ( My Saviour is a Jew) and I acknowledge Israel will always be God's Chosen People. To be anti Jew is to be anti God.
 

TMS

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Rom 2:26-29 KJV 26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? 27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? 28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

He is a Jew which is one inwardly.

Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Gal 3:28-29
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
 

ThereRoseaLamb

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Jan 17, 2023
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Ever since God named Jacob "Israel" Jews have always been and ever shall be God's chosen people. They were chosen to be an example and take God's message to the World. God made a Covenant with Israel for that purpose. God's Covenants can not be broken by Him but Israel broke it many times. He (Yeshua) came to His own (His Chosen) but His own received Him not. -- Israel was never saved by works or sacrifices for the Old Testament is very clear that they were only accepted on the basis of there faith. A great number of Jews will accept Yeshua as there Saviour when they witness the Rapture ( Removal of Christians) at the beginning of the Tribulation and they will be the main evangelists proclaiming The "Gospel of The Kingdom" during the Tribulation and most will suffer martyrdom as a consequence. -- At the end of the Tribulation all Israel will be saved, but that "ALL" is the 1 third remnant remaining after Armageddon when they accept Yeshua and cry out "Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord". Israel will still have a prominent place during the Millennium. I am just a Gentile but I love Israel ( My Saviour is a Jew) and I acknowledge Israel will always be God's Chosen People. To be anti Jew is to be anti God.
Yes, you are 100% correct!!
 
Nov 3, 2024
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Yes exactly because they repented and believed in Jesus got baptized in his name and became Christians

“A Jew “ is someone who adheres to Moses law and adheres to the old covenant word. A Christian is someone who believes the gospel and follows that covenant whether they were a Jew or gentile before

The remnant isn’t about Christianity it’s part of the curse of the law hat he would destroy Jerusalem and the people but he wouldn’t destroy them all . A remnant would survive and be sent out into the world carrying the message of the law of moses to convict the world of sin and the gospel to save souls who repent and believe

the remnant is from the ot is my point it’s not about how many Jews can be saved in the nt it’s about how many Jews would be spared from the destruction of ad 70

anyone can be saved jew or gentile it’s a matter of who believes the gospel not how we identified ourselves before we heard it
I have to disagree here at some level. A jew could never become a christian, in fact a jew is God chosen (bloodline) a Christian is grafted in. Using the argument of Paul's teaching that all are one in Christ shows lack of what paul was saying.
 

GWH

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Oct 19, 2024
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I have to disagree here at some level. A jew could never become a christian, in fact a jew is God chosen (bloodline) a Christian is grafted in. Using the argument of Paul's teaching that all are one in Christ shows lack of what paul was saying.
On the contrary, the original Christians were Jews who accepted Jesus as Messian, and the Gentiles were grafted into the ONE tree, namely Christ. Also, Christian Gentiles are spiritual Jews per Paul.
 

Aaron56

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Ever since God named Jacob "Israel" Jews have always been and ever shall be God's chosen people.
That's not the revelation God showed Paul:

"But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel,

So, not everyone from Jacob is God's Israel.

He continues in case anyone wanted to skip Jacob and go all the way to Abraham:

"..nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham;

So, not even Abraham's natural descendants are God's children.

They should have known this given the Old testament verse:

"..but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.”

Promise is the central qualifier. One must be a child of promise to be considered God's people.

"That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed."

"Seed" here is descendant. The descendants of God are people of promise, who, by faith, receive Christ. Once they receive Christ they are received by the Father too.

Just to emphasize: The Bible reads "That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God"

So, how is it many are still confused by this? You cannot get any more black and white. Couple that with the words of Jesus "the flesh profits nothing" and we should have a clear understanding of the truth.

I contend it is a blindness, perhaps made worse, through politics and tradition.
 

Aaron56

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And another thing...

Let's say God needs a people: those who are not only received by Him but those who receive what God has done and IS doing.

Is there any record of that specifically in the scripture?

Sure.

1 Peter is written to "To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia..." Primarily, these would have been gentiles, not Jews by birth.

Peter writes this to the gentile believers:

"To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia..."

and then...

"But you (the gentile believers) are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy."

People might argue: well, God made the Jews a holy nation at Sinai and then they'll quote this verse:

God telling Moses to tell the people:

"Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be a special treasure to Me above all people; for all the earth is Mine. 6 And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’"

But ask, is that what the Jews became through the law and the commandments? Did they become a "holy nation"?

There's more to this, I'll just leave it here for now.
 
Nov 3, 2024
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Many people see the jews as a people that rejected their messiah. In fact alot of the hatred is based on this matter even in some early churches.
That's how the false doctrine of replacement theology grabbed hold of many christian churches.
What is never often considered is how much Jewish blood had been spilled for the sake of keeping God's written word, and his ways such as the feasts and sabbaths.
The very scrolls that Jesus referred to when he walk among them, the scrolls Paul preached from, even the very same scrolls the pharisees taught from.
There were many jews back in the day that believed Jesus but what some fail to see is that Jesus had no issues with the Jewish peoples
The contention was with the pharisees who had the power to excommunicate which was a huge huge dis honoring which sometimes led to death.
This I hope brings some clarity to the story of the rich young ruler when Jesus ask him to give all that he had and follow him.
This was the cost to so many but yet very few know.
Remember they were ruled by Rome who also hated them....where would they go?

Have to leave for now...bbl
 

HeIsHere

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There were many jews back in the day that believed Jesus but what some fail to see is that Jesus had no issues with the Jewish peoples
And yet he allowed the Roman army to destroy the Temple.
 

LenMcM

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And yet he allowed the Roman army to destroy the Temple.
And yet he allowed the Roman army to destroy the Temple.
Helshere said - And yet he allowed the Roman army to destroy the Temple.
God arranged for the destruction of all the Temples due to corruption and hypocrisy within them. A new Temple will be built in the early part of the Tribulation and in the middle of the Tribulation it will be led by The False Messiah. It also will be destroyed at the end of the Tribulation. There will be no more Temples built after that.
 
Nov 3, 2024
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Helshere said - And yet he allowed the Roman army to destroy the Temple.
God arranged for the destruction of all the Temples due to corruption and hypocrisy within them. A new Temple will be built in the early part of the Tribulation and in the middle of the Tribulation it will be led by The False Messiah. It also will be destroyed at the end of the Tribulation. There will be no more Temples built after that.
Where do you see the destruction of the temple at end of trib?
 

LenMcM

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Where do you see the destruction of the temple at end of trib?
Rev. 16 : 17-21 Shows that after the Lord's return when he destroys Israels enemies at the end of the Battle of Armageddon there will be the greatest earthquake ever and Israel will be split at that time into three parts and the mountains will be flattened. No Temple will survive that. God's 1/3 remnant of the faithful will have fled Israel before that happens to a place where they will be protected by God. This is just before the Millenium. This will be an attack on the False Messiah and those who worship him in the Temple. It is all part of the cleansing to prepare for the Millenium and there will be no Temple structure during the Millenium for Yeshua (Jesus) is its Temple..